New clips from the doc. available to view on VH1.com!

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I'm sure I know enough about the use of the language to teach you about it many times over.

I doubt it, language is my field.

Anyway, you started the hostility my friend, not me.

lighten up.

[strandinthewind]

If I have said it once, I've said it 1,000 times - both SN and LB are very educated people. They both often refer to great literary works. Moreover, the structure of their music is complicated even if SN is not, as she reaily admits, as great a musician as LB - she at least as vision to get the sound he wants, etc. Moreover, like all rock and rollers, they take liberties with the English language to suit the phrasing they want or mood or sound they are trying to get. In the end, I love almost everything either one of them has ever done INCLUDING "Family Man" and "WISYA"

[David]

Originally posted by sparky
What a bunch of drama queens!

I thought so, too, at first. Then I realized that actually they're just bickering a bit, & everybody bickers -- friends, spouses, family, co-workers. But because it's our favorite rockers, the bickering seems more large-scale & more portentous than it really is. Hell, I just had an argument with a co-worker yesterday that was quite a bit more tense than anything in these clips. But we're pals again today. It's the zappy rhythm of daily life.

Lindsey should relent utterly in his mission to alter Stevie's verbal effusions; if it's on paper & she submits it for the lyric sheet, just let it stand as is. I'm sure his only interest in it is as a component of the song (as an adjunct to the music she [or he] has written for it), but arrangements & chords can always be worked around words or phrases that sound stilted or awkward or that don't scan naturally. Like that "when the rain wa-shez you clean, you'll know" from "Dreams." I'm sure when they first heard that, they told Stevie that it was unnatural; that's not how you say the word. But, here we are, & in the long run, it worked beautifully. Her pronunciation barbarism forged a legendary moment in pop-rock.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by David
I realized that actually they're just bickering a bit, & everybody bickers -- friends, spouses, family, co-workers. But because it's our favorite rockers, the bickering seems more large-scale & more portentous than it really is.

David's totally right... nothing in these clips amounts to anything bigger than your average bickering.
I'm sure the members of FM have had battles FAR bigger than any of these.

As Stevie has said, if they got along 100% of the time, the music would be bland. They seem to thrive on having some degree of tension at all times.
And look... a year after the album was released, and they've toured the world, and are still scheduling more dates. So none of the disagreements must have been as bad as they might seem to us.

I just hope we don't get into more rounds of the old Lindsey vs. Stevie arguments, where we can only see one of their sides and not the other's.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by cliffdweller
I doubt it, language is my field.

It is mine too. And I would never use the term "postmodern" in reference to a rock song.

Anyway, you started the hostility my friend, not me.

lighten up.

I directed not a speck of hostility toward you. You, however, were hostile toward me because of a difference of opinion.

[Carolina Girl]

Originally posted by David
Like that "when the rain wa-shez you clean, you'll know" from "Dreams." I'm sure when they first heard that, they told Stevie that it was unnatural; that's not how you say the word. But, here we are, & in the long run, it worked beautifully. Her pronunciation barbarism forged a legendary moment in pop-rock.

And don't forget "drown-din" in the sea of love

[Livia]

And don't forget "drown-din" in the sea of love

LOL - that was actually a trivia question on the radio this morning for Big Head Todd tickets. They asked, "according to FM, what would everyone love to do in the sea of love?"

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Sorry... not gonna happen.

When then, I must be the only one who thought she was being a stubborn ass in those clips. And the looks on her face are rather mean, like she's just waiting for Lindsey to say something so that she can jump all over him. Lindsey? He was rather whiny, but that's understandable about the double album. But he was still utterly obnoxious.

That's just what I got from the clips, but I'll reserve final judgement for Sunday at 10:30.

[face of glass]

Originally posted by David
Lindsey should relent utterly in his mission to alter Stevie's verbal effusions; if it's on paper & she submits it for the lyric sheet, just let it stand as is.

For me it seems like he's talking to her as a producer, trying to get the writer to possibly change some things that might seem awkward, or sometimes trying to get her to get rid of a stanza or two. It's what Ken Caillat spoke about in his Q&A too.

But I do agree with your statement.

[strandinthewind]

I do not get why LB wants her to use "he" when the entire this is "you." I agree with Stevie in her use of words there. i think saying he would mean instead of me, she would have to use she I guess we will see more on Sun. But, I am sure SN is far too clever to be a complete bitch in front of the camera. She certainly was not in this clip.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I do not get why LB wants her to use "he" when the entire this is "you." I agree with Stevie in her use of words there. i think saying he would mean instead of me, she would have to use she :shrug

What!!??

Did you have ona dem ar, watchmacallit, liquid lunches?

[strandinthewind]

No - it is Lent damnit and no alcohol is consumed during Lent!!!!!!

What I was saying is the lyrics as they stand (kudos to www.nicksfix.com) are:

He fell for her again, she watched it happen
Every day-- day by day
But more important-- night by night
She watched it all come into play
He held her hands, she listened to what he had to say


Thrown down... like a barricade
Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
And they should be together


You've shaken your faith in me, no
You've shaken my faith in everything else
A decision no one makes, and now you're going home
Faith is a hard thing to hold on to
Something inside you says I don't have to
You're not like other people, you do what you want to
You're not like other people, you do what you want to


Thrown down... like a barricade
Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
And they should be together


You say you're sorry...
Now you should walk away
But it's so overwhelming,
You have nothing left to say
You can sit outside his door and wait
Well, you can dedicate your pain to him


Oh, thrown down... like a barricade
Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
And they should be together
About just how much he never really told her...
Thrown down...
About how difficult it had been to be without her...
Thrown down...

___________________________________

I am just saying she switches twice from using "he" to using "you." The first time she is talking to LB and the second time she is talking to herself. I think it works better that way. Also, I am unsure if it is incorrect in that it is a poem and she is switching persons to covey a different point. Switching persons in this context is not completely against the rules is it :shurg: If so, lots of poets are guilty

I just like it the way it is and think using he instead of you would not work as well.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Switching persons in this context is not completely against the rules is it :shurg: If so, lots of poets are guilty

No, but shurging surely is.

I don't disagree with you (not to say that I outright agree, mind you). It kind of works, but I have a bias against third-person songs. It's one of my quirks, dammit, and I'm gonna hold on to it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
No, but shurging surely is.

I don't disagree with you (not to say that I outright agree, mind you). It kind of works, but I have a bias against third-person songs. It's one of my quirks, dammit, and I'm gonna hold on to it.

Leave my shurgs alone

I tend to agree with you here, but WHAT I REALLY HATE is when La Nicks refers to herself as "she," although that works in some instances. An instance where it does not work IMO is the song "Love Is" from TISL. The whole "she fell to the floor" part just makes me go ICK. But, its her stuff I guess and even with that she is better than most.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by dissention
When then, I must be the only one who thought she was being a stubborn ass in those clips. And the looks on her face are rather mean, like she's just waiting for Lindsey to say something so that she can jump all over him. Lindsey? He was rather whiny, but that's understandable about the double album. But he was still utterly obnoxious.

That's just what I got from the clips, but I'll reserve final judgement for Sunday at 10:30.

I swear you find the smallest little tiny things to criticize Stevie about. I know deep down you are a fan but it so totally gets on my nerves that it is as if you want to find different faults in her. How can someone be a stubborn ass when they didn't show any bitchy qualities at all in these clips? I know this is going to come off sounding soooo lame, but Stevie is a really nice, warm person- get over it!

It seems like you want her to be a bitch so you can bitch about how she's a bitch.

Can't you just be a fan that loves her instead of being a fan that criticizes everything, just for the sake of criticizing (it appears to me at least)?