Stevie Nicks' Feeling on Michael Jackson?

[diamondsnake]

Has Stevie ever said anything about him? I know a lot of celebrities support him and I think it is sick. The fact that he gets a standing ovation at different music awards is so disturbing. I'm crossing my fingers that Stevie doesn't support him. Does anyone know?

Sorry if I am stiring things up on this board, I don't know if there are any MJ supporters here...

[misterbug]

I don't know if there are any MJ supporters here...

there's at least one: me.

why do you think it is sick that celebrities support him? why are you so disturbed that he receives a standing ovation?
what is wrong with celebrating an extraordinarily talented singer and dancer?

i hope the media's sensationalist approach to MJ coverage has not unduly influenced you. why are you so offended by MJ? have you heard both sides of the story?

i strongly suggest you visit the following websites before you unleash any wild judgments about mj:
http://www.geocities.com/plabcures/snarlindex.html
http://www.geocities.com/plabcures/peterpan.html

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by misterbug
there's at least one: me.

why do you think it is sick that celebrities support him? why are you so disturbed that he receives a standing ovation?
what is wrong with celebrating an extraordinarily talented singer and dancer?

i hope the media's sensationalist approach to MJ coverage has not unduly influenced you. why are you so offended by MJ? have you heard both sides of the story?

i strongly suggest you visit the following websites before you unleash any wild judgments about mj:
http://www.geocities.com/plabcures/snarlindex.html
http://www.geocities.com/plabcures/peterpan.html

Listen, the fact that he has admited that he slept in bed with a child that was not part of his family is enough for me to think he is a nut case.

[DeeGeMe]

Here's the rule that I generally apply to celebrities in these kind of situations. If a normal person was doing something--say my next door neighbor--how would I feel about or classify their actions? Illegal, immoral or just plain weird? If they fail my test, then the celeb does too. And I'm sorry, any 45-year old man who admitted he slept with children fails all three of those tests!

I highly suggest that if you think Michael Jackson is innocent, that you spend some time educating yourself on the psychological profile of the average child molester. You'll find some alarming similarities between them and Jackson. They don't ever think they are hurting their victim either and they usually categorize their interactions with children as "innocent, beautiful", etc. Sound familiar? And oh yes, when confronted, they also usually proclaim their innocence loudly all the while blaming the victim for misunderstanding their actions/intentions.

Neverland is a pedophile's dream come true-the perfect lure to attract victims with--again, another typical child molestor tactic. Have you stopped to think about the type of psychological damage that molestation does to the victim for the rest of their lives? If not, I suggest you look that up to.

And you know what--I love Stevie to death, but I could care less what presidential candidate she supports, whether she belives there is life on Mars or if Michael Jackson is innocent. I don't look to celebrities to give me insight into what I should be able to figure out myself.

[Merf]

Originally posted by misterbug
there's at least one: me.

why do you think it is sick that celebrities support him? why are you so disturbed that he receives a standing ovation?
what is wrong with celebrating an extraordinarily talented singer and dancer?

i hope the media's sensationalist approach to MJ coverage has not unduly influenced you. why are you so offended by MJ? have you heard both sides of the story?

i strongly suggest you visit the following websites before you unleash any wild judgments about mj:
http://www.geocities.com/plabcures/snarlindex.html
http://www.geocities.com/plabcures/peterpan.html

I hardly believe Christopher was releasing any "wild judgements." You, of course, have the absolute right to support MJ as a fan. And I have the right to say what I'm about to say. Don't jump down the throat of those who think that he is guilty. Because quite honestly? Look at the facts! I would suggest that in addition to reading those websites above, that you personally check out information about pedophilia, THE CRIME that MJ is accused of. Because MJ fits the profile. Why is everyone so quick to blame the VICTIMS when a celebrity is involved? MJ may be a celebrity but NO ONE is above the law!!!

I am totally with DeeGeeMe 100% on everything she said.

[misterbug]

Here's the rule that I generally apply to celebrities...

Your rule is psychologically unsound. It has the same problem as those useless checkout aisle dream dictionaries. Sure, there are some dream images that are suggestive in any context. However, for an accurate reading, each dream symbol needs to be analyzed in the context of the patient's individual experience. Similarly, a man's action needs to be looked at relative to his own life experience. You can't just say "Aha! Molester!" without legitimate evidence.

My point is that MJ is by no means "normal", and this is largely due to his upbringing. He was forced to perform all the time--against his wishes. His father belittled him constantly. His father beat him with electrical cords and belts, to the degree that the mere sight of Old Man Jackson induced vomiting.

So, am I unreasonable to conclude that MJ was deprived of a childhood in the full sense of the word? No. MJ never got to play with his friends, he was just shuttled off to the next concert or TV venue.

Consequently, I am much more inclined to think that Neverland is not a pedophile's dream, but rather a child's dream. Specifically, it fulfills the childhood wishes MJ was never allowed to live. And now that he is a multimillionaire, why shouldn't he be allowed to live his dreams? Yes, it may be eccentric, but if he wants to ride a merry-go-round at age 45 because he never got to at age 5, who are we to condemn him? One of the links I provided above offers a convincing argument that MJ is trying to look like Peter Pan. No surprise, considering MJ's many references to the boy who is eternally young (e.g. statues in Neverland, mention of him in interviews).

Ok, you might now ask, what about all the children he "sleeps with" and invites over? In fact, they are merely peers not objects of sexual desire. MJ's emotional growth was halted because he was forced into adult situations long before he should have been. So he is simply trying to live his childhood. The "profile of a pedophile" keeps getting waved in my face, but another significant aspect of it is that the wrongdoer is an emotional adult. MJ thinks of "sleeping with kids" like we thought of slumber parties when we were 10 or 12 years old. Just because he has a 45 year old body does not mean he is operating on a commensurate emotional level.

Moreover, if we are hypothesizing that MJ was a molester, it seems highly unusual that allegations would occur a decade apart. Like gambling, alcohol, and other psychological addictions, pedophelia is a compulsion. A ten year span between incidents is unheard of in actual pedophiles. And surely if MJ was committing sex crimes during those ten years, we would have heard a lot more allegations. For me, the evidence to support a claim of pedophilia is lacking.

And oh yes, when confronted, they also usually proclaim their innocence loudly all the while blaming the victim for misunderstanding their actions/intentions.

When did MJ claim the victim was at fault? And I'm not sure I can agree with the argument that proclamations of innocence are: 1) significant characteristics of pedophiles; and 2) grounds for greater suspicion(!).

[misterbug]

Listen, the fact that he has admited that he slept in bed with a child that was not part of his family is enough for me to think he is a nut case.

Well, if by "admited" you mean "admitted", then that statement is incorrect. In fact, MJ admitted that if kids are staying over, he lets them sleep in the bed while he takes his repose upon the FLOOR.

[SteveMacD]

While I fully subscribe to innocent until proven guilty, Jacko did one thing that suggests to me that he is guilty. When he made the absurd comments about the police roughing him up and that he was still in pain from the handcuffs, he was clearly trying to get sympathy. That's a tactic of guilty people. When they get in trouble, they try to be a victim.

As for blaming it on his up-bringing, I don't buy it. There are many people who grew up in extremely difficult circumstances. They, too, didn't have normal childhoods. But, they don't do the type of weird things Jacko does.

[misterbug]

There are many people who grew up in extremely difficult circumstances

That is another generalization. But how many people grew up with exactly the same circumstances as MJ? Nobody but MJ. So the argument that many people had difficult childhoods... is not valid at all. It doesn't work.

[diamondsnake]

Hey, no one answered my question. Has Stevie ever made a statement about MJ? I know it shouldn't matter what she has to say, but I truely would not respect her as much (as a person) if she supported him- the same man that admits to sleeping with children, however "innocent" it may be.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by misterbug
That is another generalization. But how many people grew up with exactly the same circumstances as MJ? Nobody but MJ. So the argument that many people had difficult childhoods... is not valid at all. It doesn't work.

Your right. Many people have much worse childhoods. Raised in foster care, being beaten by their parent, having a life threatening disease like cancer, losing their parents, depression, the list goes on and on. And almost all of these people survive and turn into healthy adults.

[Mad4stevie]

Originally posted by SteveMacD
While I fully subscribe to innocent until proven guilty, Jacko did one thing that suggests to me that he is guilty. When he made the absurd comments about the police roughing him up and that he was still in pain from the handcuffs, he was clearly trying to get sympathy. That's a tactic of guilty people. When they get in trouble, they try to be a victim.

As for blaming it on his up-bringing, I don't buy it. There are many people who grew up in extremely difficult circumstances. They, too, didn't have normal childhoods. But, they don't do the type of weird things Jacko does.

This is exactly why Jackson has lost so much credibility. He has lied about so many other things unrelated to the sexual abuse allegations that it is hard to find him trustworthy. Lying about plastic surgery is one thing, but going on TV and spending practically the entire interview talking about how much pain you are in because of the police "mistreatment" is another. He just cannot keep his trap shut!

He has shown complete disregard and disrespect for the court system and the charges filed against him by showing up very late to his arraingment and by dancing on his SUV and having an party back at Neverland after the court appearance. Insanity. Even his lawyers can't control him, and that is a BIG problem.

[Mad4stevie]

Originally posted by misterbug
My point is that MJ is by no means "normal", and this is largely due to his upbringing. He was forced to perform all the time--against his wishes. His father belittled him constantly. His father beat him with electrical cords and belts, to the degree that the mere sight of Old Man Jackson induced vomiting.

So, am I unreasonable to conclude that MJ was deprived of a childhood in the full sense of the word? No. MJ never got to play with his friends, he was just shuttled off to the next concert or TV venue.

Consequently, I am much more inclined to think that Neverland is not a pedophile's dream, but rather a child's dream. Specifically, it fulfills the childhood wishes MJ was never allowed to live. And now that he is a multimillionaire, why shouldn't he be allowed to live his dreams? Yes, it may be eccentric, but if he wants to ride a merry-go-round at age 45 because he never got to at age 5, who are we to condemn him? One of the links I provided above offers a convincing argument that MJ is trying to look like Peter Pan. No surprise, considering MJ's many references to the boy who is eternally young (e.g. statues in Neverland, mention of him in interviews).

Ok, you might now ask, what about all the children he "sleeps with" and invites over? In fact, they are merely peers not objects of sexual desire. MJ's emotional growth was halted because he was forced into adult situations long before he should have been. So he is simply trying to live his childhood. The "profile of a pedophile" keeps getting waved in my face, but another significant aspect of it is that the wrongdoer is an emotional adult. MJ thinks of "sleeping with kids" like we thought of slumber parties when we were 10 or 12 years old. Just because he has a 45 year old body does not mean he is operating on a commensurate emotional level.

How do you know they aren't objects of desire for him? Whether or not he is an "emotional adult" does not mean that he doesn't have sexual desires. He is a grown man, and with that comes sexual desire in one form or another. Now that his children's paternity may be in question, we don't know if he ever even slept with Debbie Rowe. Too many things don't add up.

[DeeGeMe]

Originally posted by misterbug
A ten year span between incidents is unheard of in actual pedophiles. And surely if MJ was committing sex crimes during those ten years, we would have heard a lot more allegations. For me, the evidence to support a claim of pedophilia is lacking.
When did MJ claim the victim was at fault? And I'm not sure I can agree with the argument that proclamations of innocence are: 1) significant characteristics of pedophiles; and 2) grounds for greater suspicion(!).

Are you out of your tree? Pedophiles absolutely tend to go on for years and years until they are locked up. You've got to understand that they are sexually attracted to children. It's their sexual orientation. As a result, they have one of the lowest "cure" rates among any criminal offenders and/or sexual offenders! I worked in law enforcement for several years and Investigators, Victim Advocates & Sex Crime Experts will all tell you that they honestly don't believe that pedophiles can ever be "cured". It is not unusual for a pedophile to molest generations of someone within their reach--i.e, their own family or a neighbor, etc. In the criminal population, pedophiles and child murderers are considered to be the lowest of the low.

The Today show this morning had a fascinating interview with Maureen Orth of Vanity Fair. In an issue that will hit the stands next week she details the latest allegations against MJ and documents other cases where the parents and the victims were too intimidated by MJ and his thug lawyers to proceed, or that they were just flat out paid off. Orth is a very highly regarded investigative journalist and has been following Jackson for 10 years now. She alleges that MJ has paid off the families of his victims with cash, cars, etc. The patterns are all similar--he prefers victims who come from broken homes--he stashes the parents away in seperate guest houses, he intimidates his own employees from testifying against him, he gives his victims alcohol in soft drink cans & plies them with pornography to weaken their inhibations. Yeah, that's normal behavior all right.

Listen, I'm glad you're so thrilled with him and that you think that his "bad childhood" gives him free reign to molest children. You're the ideal juror for his upcoming trial. He wants people just like you on the jury so he can get off and continue to molest children. Why he doesn't even need to supply his excuses--he's got people like you who are all too willing to do it for him. I think it was PT Barnum who said something about suckers being born every day. Congratulations, you prove Mr. Barnum correct.

[misterbug]

I am NOT saying that his bad childhood gives him free reign to molest children (if I have not made it clear before, I feel MJ is totally innocent of molestation charges). I AM saying his upbringing is a good explanation for his child-like behavior, which suggests he is NOT a molestor.

This is exactly why Jackson has lost so much credibility. He has lied about so many other things unrelated to the sexual abuse allegations that it is hard to find him trustworthy. Lying about plastic surgery is one thing, but going on TV and spending practically the entire interview talking about how much pain you are in because of the police "mistreatment" is another. He just cannot keep his trap shut!

Where is your proof that he was lying about his pain? And even if he was, it just supports my theory that he is a child in his mind. It's hard to be more childlike than to exaggerate an injury to get something you want. Children lie like that all the time. I know I did.

Most of you people are confusing eccentricity with guilt.

Your right. Many people have much worse childhoods. Raised in foster care, being beaten by their parent, having a life threatening disease like cancer, losing their parents, depression, the list goes on and on. And almost all of these people survive and turn into healthy adults.

Anyone with any any actual psychological knowledge knows that you can't say, "Just because Mr. X's childhood seems TO ME worse than MJ's, MJ must be guilty. If other people with completely different upbringings can survive and become 'healthy,' MJ must be guilty." Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. I can name many examples of cases where the patient had a GOOD upbringing with perhaps one bad event, who showed much stranger pathology than somebody with a "bad" abusive upbringing.