Reissues 3/23/04

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by chiliD
("Go Your Own Way" was released in) DECEMBER?!?! I could've sworn I bought it in October (just a couple of weeks after my semester started; and, right after I had just started working in a record store).

That's always a possibility, chili. I was quoting the release date given in various books and online sites, but that doesn't mean it's 100% accurate.

Of course, it's hard to imagine them releasing the single over four months before the album, but things were sometimes done a little differently back then.

We need an EXTENSIVE, exhaustively researched history book about the Mac's recordings, and album & single releases... something to clear up the various inconsistencies, inaccuracies and urban legends, presented by other sources.

The Peter Lewry book is good, but if the band would actually let him, or someone else, have access to their archives, we could have something even better.

It'll be interesting to see exactly how detailed the liner notes will be for these remastered discs, and if they'll actually include session info, etc.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
Seriously, Julia is an amazing song. If Iovine poo-pooed it, he got pretty lousy taste and I'd love to see what other songs she borught to the table that were shooed away. Her vocals on that song (every take!) are breathtaking. Everything is perfect. And if Iovine had nothing to do with its production, whoever did deserves lots of praise.

I believe Gordon Perry & Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers produced the 'Bella Donna' session versions, and Perry produced the 'Wild Heart' session versions himself. David O. might be able to correct that information, if I'm mistaken.

One of my favorite aspects regarding the "sound" of "Julia," is the prominent use of piano... which is something that's been missing from Stevie's releases for far too long.

Anyway, I don't mean to hijack this thread and turn it into a discussion of "Julia"... so back to those reissues!!!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by JamieSPC
Don't mean to snipe at you guys, but we should probably make the point that the best part of this whole thing is that all these "tracks that have been around forever and are no big deal or no surprise" etc. etc. etc. will now finally be legally available.

That seems pretty cool to me.

That's definitely the other great thing about these releases... folks like John (wetcamelfood), who've never collected unofficial releases, will finally be able to hear and enjoy what so many other fans have already had the opportunity to hear.

And the band will finally get royalty payments on these tracks.


By the way, where are you John?? You're way too silent!

[Livia]

This is the best frggin' news I've heard all week! It's been a particularly sh*tty week for me, but looks like 2004 is proving to be another "Year of the Mac."

[David]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I believe Gordon Perry & Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers produced the 'Bella Donna' session versions, and Perry produced the 'Wild Heart' session versions himself. David O. might be able to correct that information, if I'm mistaken.

Apparently, Petty & the Heartbreakers weren't involved at all. Stevie did a bunch of studio work with them during breaks in the Tusk tour (January & April 1980), but not much afterward, probably because they were recording their own album "Hard Promises." "Julia" was tracked at Rumbo during the first few weeks of June 1981. The reel boxes list Iovine as the producer & Shelly Yakus & Don Smith as 1st & 2nd engineer, respectively. No reference is made of Gordon Perry's involvement.

I know it's the norm to refer to the "Bella Donna" version of "Julia" & the "Wild Heart" version, but I don't think any conclusive evidence supports the existence of a "Wild Heart" version. I myself never thought the so-called "Wild Heart" version was done for "Wild Heart"; to me, it sounds like the '81 versions. I think it was only fans (like Mike Bise & Debby DeStefano) through the years who said that "Julia" was recorded for both albums (& not used for either one, obviously). All I've heard from them is that they based this belief solely on Stevie's vocal sounding different on the alleged "Wild Heart" version. What do you guys think?

Maybe, in the future, somebody with Web space will create a page filled with all the info that can be lifted from the reel-to-reel boxes (producers, recording dates, studios, track sheets, engineers) as well as from other sources, like press cuttings & interviews. It would provide a hell of a timeline, something that Peter Lewry purported to have done but actually didn't. Lewry's book isn't just periodically off track but fairly consistently (during the 1975-1987 portion) filled with shameful guesswork & egregious errors. You can't write a book that purports to be an authoritative source on the recording sessions if you never obtained actual access to studio files, etc., & it's obvious Lewry had no access to studio files, only the guesswork of fans, regardless of how accurate that sometimes proves to be.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by David
Apparently, Petty & the Heartbreakers weren't involved at all.
"Julia" was tracked at Rumbo during the first few weeks of June 1981. The reel boxes list Iovine as the producer & Shelly Yakus & Don Smith as 1st & 2nd engineer, respectively. No reference is made of Gordon Perry's involvement.

Wow... see, I didn't know all of that! I've never had a chance to see the info from the reel-to-reel boxes, so I was only going by what I've been told or read elsewhere.
Further evidence of those inaccuracies and urban legends I was talking about it!

I have a version of "Julia" that is credited as being 'Wild Heart' era, and it definitely sounds different from any of the various takes that have surfaced over this past year, but... having said that... there really isn't anything about the track that makes it seem like it couldn't have also been recorded around the time of 'Bella Donna.' Not even Stevie's voice, which really wasn't that drastically different between 'Bella Donna' and 'The Wild Heart.'

I totally agree with you, that it would be a huge asset to the fan community if someone could put all of the master reel info on one site... we definitely need something like this, to help clear up a lot of the misinformation that's out there.

The best part of Peter Lewry's book is that it provides one-stop-shopping for a lot of the info that you'd otherwise be spending hours or days trying to find across the internet (if you found it at all)... but he definitely didn't get everything right.
Of course, I don't really fault him entirely for that, since he didn't have the cooperation of Fleetwood Mac or Warner Bros.

I think the most annoying mistakes, are the crediting of "Make Me A Mask" as a 'Mirage' outtake, and the listing of "Family Party" as an outtake song from the 'Tango' sessions, when all it really is, is another dub mix of "Family Man."
Errors which, with just a tiny bit more research, could have been corrected.

[dissention]

Originally posted by David
I know it's the norm to refer to the "Bella Donna" version of "Julia" & the "Wild Heart" version, but I don't think any conclusive evidence supports the existence of a "Wild Heart" version. I myself never thought the so-called "Wild Heart" version was done for "Wild Heart"; to me, it sounds like the '81 versions. I think it was only fans (like Mike Bise & Debby DeStefano) through the years who said that "Julia" was recorded for both albums (& not used for either one, obviously). All I've heard from them is that they based this belief solely on Stevie's vocal sounding different on the alleged "Wild Heart" version. What do you guys think?

I don't think it was done for TWH. None of the master reels contain any that were worked on then (or dated after the BD sessions, for that matter), so I'd be surprised if it was.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew


One of my favorite aspects regarding the "sound" of "Julia," is the prominent use of piano... which is something that's been missing from Stevie's releases for far too long.

I agree. I really missed the piano on Smile At You.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by David
Lindsey's been mixing a live album of the Chicago show with Mark Needham at a place in Malibu. He's scheduled to continue mixing tomorrow (Friday) night.

You never know whether a project will get canned -- particularly if it's Lindsey's -- but at this point we can probably expect a live album from that Soundstage gig.

A DVD would be great, too, because he played cool things like "Red Rover" & "Steal Your Heart Away."

Cool - thanks for posting that. I wonder if they are going vocal overdubs? Also, we are fortunate in that this show was taped in one night. So, unlike the The Dance, which was taken from three nights, Stevie's tambourine will be the same throughout the song

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Am I the only one who doesn't collect demos like crazy around here? I have maybe a handful. I don't have the patience to listen to them. But I keep hearing about this The Dealer. Is it available on a site somewhere?

out the "yin-yang", But the ratio of demos to the live recordings I own is paltry at best...I'm guessing I have about 8 live recordings (Maybe more) to each demo disc.

Originally posted by chiliD
It's like with the Grateful Dead & the Allman Bros Band. So many recordings are freely shared, that they just have to finally give in and give 'em an official "stamp of approval"[/B]

Very true...Some of the best recordings I have are "unofficially" released recordings that have been freely traded about (ie-Any of the 4 U2 Dublin, Ireland-"The Point Depot" Dec '89 shows w/special guest B.B. King)

I wished the Mac would give their blessings to the recordings of the shows that are floating around...

Brian j.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
folks like John (wetcamelfood), who've never collected unofficial releases, will finally be able to hear and enjoy what so many other fans have already had the opportunity to hear.

Well, what I collect is perhaps a little bigger a spectrum than this sounds. To some, "unofficial" isn't necessarily "bootleg", like the PG era Boston Tea Party tapes, which you can get in most retail chains, so I personally consider those "legal", whereas something like "Almanac" I consider a "bootleg" though I know others may consider the Tea Party stuff "bootleg" or whatever and really, I applaud you guys for doing the download thing, I think it's cool how the Mac community has been able to share all this stuff with little incident, I think we are very fortunate to have the generally caring, generous fan base that we do which I'm sure fans of other bands/artists unfortunately don't have.

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
By the way, where are you John?? You're way too silent!

Sorry Johnny, I've been busy at a new job I've just started but hopefully I'll be able to post more soon when things calm down a little bit. Oddly, I had a, uh, "disagreement" (?) with someone here a few weeks ago, funnily enough, about the "bootleg/legal" issue, and without going in to it here, I've been feeling uneasy about coming back to post again but I'm sure I'll get my confidence back and join in to the talk again when the releases do appear.

Yeah, this is cool, I guess I'm being reserved in that I don't want to get excited about the 18/21 being all "previously unreleased" as the remaster of the 1975 album, though "expanded", sounds to have little in the way of "new" tracks, I'm not big on the "different mixes" myself but I know there's audiophiles here that really dig 'em and that's a great field I wish I had the touch for.

Anyways, though there are undoubtedly going to be at least some "new to me" tracks on these, I'd rather think that there won't be many, so if there does turn out to be a bunch, then KEWL! ...but if it is mainly just "single mixes" or whatever, then no big deal, it's what I prepared myself for.

I just hope they don't do the old trick of labeling the tracks on the outside as different "versions" (to get you to go and buy them) and then you get it home, open it up and see on the inside, or even worse, hear for yourself, that they're nothing but different "mixes", as to me, there is a BIG difference between a different MIX and VERSION, but heck, they'd have their money by then so what would they care, you know? Well, hopefully it'll be above board and worth it when they finally do start hitting the streets.

Like ChiliD says, it'll be interesting to see when they start "rolling out the REST of them" what THOSE entail, as I think that will be the true sign if Rhino (or whoever) is going to take the WHOLE project seriously, or if they're going to just make a big deal out of these albums and then have next to nothing on "the rest". Fingers and toes crossed anyways that it's the former.

John

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
So, unlike the The Dance, which was taken from three nights, Stevie's tambourine will be the same throughout the song

In all seriousness, I wonder whether she brought it onstage for Lindsey's Soundstage? I'd imagine not, and then in that case it would have to be one of the few concerts she's done without a tambourine you'd think.

EDIT: John! Good to, er, 'see' you again, mate Stick around!

[Cammie]

THANKS to David for the really great
Mac News! Glad someone shares with us
"uninformed" what is going on! Especially
for us Lindsey Fans...the latest LB News!!!
We are awaiting TUSK and L's Soundstage!
The demos keep us happy for now!Luv,Sky

[Mad4stevie]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Am I the only one who doesn't collect demos like crazy around here? I have maybe a handful. I don't have the patience to listen to them. But I keep hearing about this The Dealer. Is it available on a site somewhere?

I have the acapella version posted on my site:

http://www.allkingshorses.net/page14.html

[chiliD]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Like ChiliD says, it'll be interesting to see when they start "rolling out the REST of them" what THOSE entail, as I think that will be the true sign if Rhino (or whoever) is going to take the WHOLE project seriously, or if they're going to just make a big deal out of these albums and then have next to nothing on "the rest". Fingers and toes crossed anyways that it's the former.

John

Hi, John, nice to see you back among the "posting".

So, is your new job with Rhino compiling the re-releases? (like we volunteered to do for them many moons ago)

Yep, the Bare Trees, Future Games, Kiln House, Penguin, Mystery To Me, Heroes Are Hard To Find & Time albums are my main interest in this Rhino remastering project. Let's hope they keep interested enough to get through these albums, too.