When I See You Again Appreciation Post!

[blackdove]

WISYA is my favourite Stevie song from Tango, its awesome!

Love Sarah

[ricohv]

Well I alway get in on these threads at the end *dang*...
I thought the song did sound a little out of place on the album (but so did WTTR...S). Only Seven Wonders seemed to really fit. But I am glad it wasn't a piano ballad. The keyboard and then the ______'s (? Marachas or whatever-the rubbing metal on metal kinda sound?) at the end kind of give it a quirkiness -for a ballad at least-which I think does help it to fit. I don't think a song has to be lyrically brilliant to move you. Simple pop songs generally aren't brilliant lyrically. Everywhere comes to mind: simple lyrics/sort of a fluff song, but I love it Everytime that I have ever heard it.

[EricBliss12345]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew

But in my opinion... regarding Stevie, or any songwriter... I'm always going to give 70/30 credit, with the songwriter first, and the producer second, as the producer is only really embellishing what's already there (in my opinion).I hadn't noticed his post in that thread. I'd definitely be interested in reading which songs of Stevie's he picked, as I know when he and I have chatted, Christine and Bob Welch are his favorites, by far, and I've gotten the feeling that he has only a moderate interest in Stevie or Lindsey (not that there's anything wrong with that).

[/B]

About the Mcvie/Welch era being my favorite you're most definately right. But don't get me wrong, I like the best of Stevie's and Lindsey's time in the band just as much. Most of Stevie's Tusk and Mirage songs are my very favorite Fleetwood Mac songs and I also think Silver Springs may very well be the bands best song along with The Chain. I have about an equal amount of albums from both era, and I like both of them equally but for different reasons. I just swing towards the Welch era because that's when Chris was at the top of her game. I'd like to go on record saying that I definately don't think Stevie was a slouch in the least. It's more of a very minimal interest in Lindsey's stuff than Stevie's (even though when I heard "Trouble" for the first time recently it really made me want to check out Law And Order).

I was in no way trying to stir **** when I said Lindsey let her make an ass out of herself. Do you really think none of the other band members winced when they heard that vocal track play back? I really thought I was giving a well thought out and balanced opinion there! That's the best I can do!

[Cristian]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Given the fact that you winked, Christian, I get the feeling that you didn't really feel like you weren't welcome to post in the thread.

I was having problems to log in but I think I may have solved them already. Of course the wink was because of that! I was just laughing about the course of the thread. I cannot seriously think about other Fleetwood Mac/Stevie song that can inspire so many multi-page threads (you can just check the files!) as "When I See You Again".

In my opinion is a very, very weak song, but I've come to find people who think it's a masterpiece and it's OK. Matter of tastes, one can guess.



Song of the moment - I Sing For The Things

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I have no doubt that she probably did wipe her vocal from the mix (there's an alternate mix floating around out there that definitely has Stevie and Lindsey both singing the coda), but certainly Lindsey knew about it not long afterwards, and certainly he knew about it before the final mixes were approved and sent to be pressed.

Highly unlikely that the voice would be wiped out. I just don't see it happening. Plus, if it's true that a second mix exists with both voices, that only proves my point and weakens yours.

[sparky]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
But in my opinion... regarding Stevie, or any songwriter... I'm always going to give 70/30 credit, with the songwriter first, and the producer second, as the producer is only really embellishing what's already there (in my opinion).

I would generally agree with this statement. In some cases, it is more like 90/10. That, however, all depends on the artist and how completely they are able to realize the vision of a song in the demo process. My own estimation of Lindsey's production skills skyrocketed when I heard the finished version of "Thrown Down." The TISL demo of that song is nearly unlistenable IMO. I thought it couldn't be saved, and felt there was barely a song there at all. In it's present form, I think it is a solid piece of work. For that feat I give Lindsey major credit.

[Carolina Girl]

Originally posted by Cristian
I cannot seriously think about other Fleetwood Mac/Stevie song that can inspire so many multi-page threads (you can just check the files!) as "When I See You Again".

[/B]

How do I access the old threads? I'd like to read them. I'm wondering if you guys ever discusssed the use of the lyric "When I see you again" on Destiny Rules, which was on Say You Will, the first FM album with both Stevie and Lindsey since TITN, which included the song WISYA. Just another case of recycled lyrics or something more?

[chiliD]

Originally posted by Jen77

I would just like to say that I love this song too! Just the whole Stevie singing "When I see you again...." and Lindsey at the end singing "If I see you again..." Its just heartbreaking!

Jen~*

The whole "When..." by Stevie, then Lindsey comes in with "If..."...one word just swings the whole meaning of the line 180 degrees from "hopeful" to "doubtful".


Holy crap, chiliD gets "sentimental", wtf's up with THAT?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Highly unlikely that the voice would be wiped out. I just don't see it happening. Plus, if it's true that a second mix exists with both voices, that only proves my point and weakens yours.

I'm not really sure why we're even debating this. I'm also not sure how the existence of another mix featuring both vocals, necessarily "proves" your point and "weakens" mine.

You stated that it was "highly unlikely" Stevie removed her voice from the mix, which I assume to mean that you believe Lindsey must have recorded his vocal separately... therefore there would be no need to remove another vocal.

(And perhaps it should be noted here that Lindsey's voice is noticeably more prominent on the left channel, even on the album version.)

I have three versions of "When I See You Again."
The album version; the mix where they're both singing the "If I see you again" coda; and a third where the ending is merely more repetitions of the line "what's the matter, baby," as the song fades.

Given that it's common practice to make safeties (backup copies) of the various takes, why is it so hard to believe that a copy could still exist of the mix that featured both Stevie and Lindsey, while also believing that Stevie could have "removed" her vocals (a task which probably really only amounted to dropping her voice out of the mix) from the master to create the version the band used for the album?

Stevie has had a hand in remixing various tracks over the years, and has produced or co-produced some others... so surely she has enough knowledge of the soundboard to be able to drop her vocals out of a mix.

So what causes the improbability in your mind? And what would make it such a hard pill to swallow if she had?
It was 17 years ago, and it's not like it really matters one way or the other if she had.

[face of glass]

Late, later, the latest. That’s the story of my life on these boards. Please don’t mind the occasional weirdness, this was mainly written during night.

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
The only "argument" I have with that statement, is that... out of about 113 Nicks-penned songs that have been officially released with Fleetwood Mac, on a solo album, or on a soundtrack or b-side, Lindsey only has production credit on 21 of those (10 of those being the 'SYW' tracks, and not counting "Seven Wonders," which Stevie only added some lyrics to). Of course, we should probably credit him for at least arranging the 'Buckingham Nicks' tracks, as well as "Rhiannon" and "Landslide," and I'm sure he had more than just a little input on the 'Rumours' tracks (despite the lack of a production credit)... but Lindsey is definitely not the "only one who knows what to do with Stevie's songs," as is often implied.

If it seems that I have implied so in this thread, then I have to apologize. I guess I’ve been looking at the whole thing through Buckingham-filled spectacles (I wonder if Stevie uses those too). Let it be stated now: I love Bella Donna and The Wild Heart; I like Rock A Little, The Other Side Of The Mirror, Trouble In Shangri-La and even Street Angel. No, I do not consider them the greatest albums in the history of the universe but I do have tolerance to Stevie’s approach, to the point where I can honestly say that I do not actively dislike any track on any album. Yes, I do think that all of them have their amount of monotonousness; on Street Angel it gets to the point where I can’t even begin to discern the majority of songs from each other. And yes, I do think that every album could use a bit of that diversity that Lindsey gives Stevie through his production. But that’s just a minor complaint.

What I feel that producers other than Lindsey are doing is just picking up the crumbs from a table where he just feasted. They are building on what he helped to create, and for me at least, the results seem secondary when compared to “the real thing”. You have to consider the circumstances though.

In the ‘70s female singer-songwriters who were dealing with these “feminine, romantic topics” were basically all given the same production (except for those who had the reins in their own hands, like Joni Mitchell); you usually slapped on a piano, an acoustic guitar and a bunch of strings and that was that. That was the producers’ idea of romance at the time. Then enter Lindsey Buckingham. What Lindsey, Ken and Richard basically did was show to the world that you can convey a sense of romance through other measures too. This style starts in earnest on “Dreams” and runs through Stevie’s Tusk songs. It’s a non-conformist style that does not fail to sell but doesn’t bow to the mainstream; it’s not dependent on what’s going on around it. Enter part two of the story:

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Keith Olsen, Richard Dashut, Ken Caillat, Jimmy Iovine (my favorite of anyone who's produced Stevie's music), Rick Nowels, Mike Campbell, John Shanks, and others, have definitely added wonderful touches to many of Stevie's songs over the years... though I'm most definitely not belittling Lindsey's contributions.

So there it is. Suddenly Lindsey’s no longer in control; there’s this Jimmy Iovine guy who’s going to bring in a great band and give Stevie her music back. I have to agree with you somehow Johnny, Mr. Iovine is my favourite Stevie solo producer too. If what David told us earlier in another thread is true: that Jimmy was a very laissez-faire producer in that he let the band work on the songs throughout the whole arranging/recording period, then it’s simply a different approach to Lindsey’s.

Yet I still get the feeling that no matter how great work there is on Bella Donna and The Wild Heart, it would be even greater if Buckingham was let to leave his stamp on them. And it’s just not on the likes of “Outside The Rain” (which most people cite as the most FM-like song on the album). Stuff like “Leather And Lace”, “After The Glitter Fades” and “The Highwayman” come off as too routine and safe sounding; as if Stevie was trying to make herself appealing to the country radio. Compare those to something like “That’s Alright” where the chorus sounds like a grasp of ethereality from heavens and beyond and you’ll see what I mean. In concert a song like “Edge Of Seventeen” could have been a showcase for Stevie on the level of “Rhiannon” and “Sisters Of The Moon” if there had been a partner who would be willing to be the equal of Stevie’s vocal intensity with a guitar; namely Buckingham. Don’t get me wrong; I love the song. But there’s certain areas where Stevie’s unwilling to go if Lindsey’s not there with her. I guess that’s a bit beside the point though.

Jimmy had also the good fortune of producing some of Stevie’s best songs. She had some of those ‘70s “rejects” (rejects? Fools!) to give him and add to that the fact that her basic songwriting still hadn’t lost its freshness, that she was capable of writing material that would possibly interest a larger audience (than a group of hardcore fans) up to The Wild Heart was important in building her a significant following. Of course she and Jimmy were still leaning on the groundwork that came from Buckingham, Caillat and Dashut but they were also establishing a new audience; a bunch of Nicksheads that didn’t want to hear anything of Fleetwood Mac (although I have no idea how sizeable this group is).

Yet they were still following a mainstreamish path. Danny Goldberg may claim in the booklet of Enchanted that Stevie’s solo work was “artsy-craftsy, not muscular commercial music like Fleetwood Mac’s”, but for me it’s always been the opposite. I’m not denying the shades of mainstream on Fleetwood Mac’s albums but for me Lindsey has always walked the plank between the experimental and the commercial. He’s been more daring in his production than Jimmy Iovine and others. You may claim that doing “epics” like the title tracks on Stevie’s two first solo albums took some nerve but I might as well claim that they had the nerve to do those tracks because they were doing an entire album, not a collection of hit singles (or 2-5 tracks, as on Fleetwood Mac albums) where you would have to make sure that every track is commercially appealing. I mean, take a look at how similar those two albums are. The Wild Heart is essentially a repetition of Bella Donna with some synths slapped on (because the times demanded it; everyone at that point had converted to synthesizers. Thanks a lot, new wave); both begin with a long “epic” (why, they’re both also the title tracks! How come!), stuff like “Gate And Garden” and “How Still My Love” are practically interchangeable (for someone who doesn’t hear the subtle differences anyway), “Stand Back” has the same foundation to it as “Edge Of Seventeen” does (that little “sixteenth-note” thing that Waddy plays with the guitar constantly during “EO17” is too similar to the one that’s played on the keyboards in “Stand Back”), the synthesizers on “If Anyone Falls” do not add anything significant to it that wasn’t already there on Bella Donna, etc. It’s a bunch of people following almost the same approach two years later.

Buckingham’s quirks aren’t present on either of these and that’s a drawback for me (even though they do an admirable job in almost covering it up). The tracks set almost similar atmospheres throughout. At least Lindsey, when he re-uses something, uses the recycled idea in a new context. Lindsey’s shadow is still there looming on these two albums (on places where his influence is heard and where it can’t be heard = the most mainstream tracks; surely they didn’t want to sound like Buckingham all the time); hell, “Sable On Blond” is basically “Gypsy” all over again.
Sure, they’re adding synthesizers into the picture but that was something that the mainstream told them to do. They certainly didn’t want to appear as “non-modernistic” or anything like that. “I Can’t Wait”, for all its goodness, sounds like a typical ‘80s Fairlight experiment. Compare that to the approach of Go Insane where the Fairlight is used in an untrivial way. Yes, both approaches may sound dated today but Lindsey’s work on that album is more reminiscent of what Kate Bush and Laurie Anderson were doing at the time than whatever the “powers-to-be” in the music industry said was hip.

Then enter Rupert Hine. Sure, he’s creating this aura of romanticism too and it is a different kind of romanticism. It’s not like what Lindsey was doing on Tango In The Night. So what is it then? Loads of mainstream ‘80s production again. Generic, non-intrusive saxophone solos. Acoustic, “Spanish”-sounding guitars (come on, the guitar in “Family Man” is at least playful and quirky, these sound like they’re inviting you to Santa Barbara). In short, the usual deal, even worse this time. And I still like the album. Goes to show how much respect I have for Stevie.

Hello Street Angel. Oh, you’re a much maligned creature, even though you’re not that much weaker than the others. Now what do you have in there? Very little synthesizers? Something that at least sounds like a real band? Hooray! But oh, wait, it seems like your songs mostly sound the same. No great production and arrangement work has gone into you and it seems like the band isn’t that inspired either. Oh, the songs aren’t as inspired as on Bella Donna either. That explains why this particular approach isn’t working the fourth time around.

And so it goes, in comes Mr. John Shanks. Now we all know TISL very well at this point and I would have to say that right after Lindsey Buckingham and Jimmy Iovine Shanks would be the next in line for me. Who cares about those suspected Pro Tools or that the album sounds a bit too mainstreamish again; Stevie sounds good there and there’s enough arrangement details so that I can separate the songs from each other. There’s one small problem though and that’s something that other people, including veterans like ChiliD have noticed too; Shanks’ style on this album is essentially an imitation of a Lindsey production, except on places where it once again sounds way too mainstream. I can’t deny it myself either and I can’t escape from thinking how much better the thing would sound in Lindsey’s hands. I even find myself escaping to the original demos of “Sorcerer” (because what could replace those valuable Buckingham vocals?) and “Planets Of The Universe” (take that technophilia off from the final take!).

So there you have it. That’s why I still prefer Lindsey to any other Stevie’s producer. This is not to underestimate the contributions of the producers or Waddy or Sharon (& other vocalists) or whoever but I think that certain sides of Stevie come out only when she’s working with Lindsey. It shows right there in the way he wraps his guitars onto a Nickssong so that it becomes difficult (for me, at least) to imagine that there’s some other kind of approach. It’s also there in his singing and how he cleverly inserts his voice into Stevie’s work; he knows the reactions that their two voices still generate. Above all, it still creates this network of emotions that’s definitely alone-standing in the world of rock music.

I haven’t tried to suggest here that Stevie should solely work with LB or that she should not do another solo album. I’ve only tried to explain why I prefer Lindsey to any other producer of Nicks that there is. If Lindsey’s the perfectionist he’s reputed to be in the studio, then I see no problem with Stevie doing a solo album including all the usual hubbub that comes along with it. But neither do I think that anyone will ever come and match Buckingham’s impact on Nicks’ music and life; that’s what you wanted to hear you romantics!

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
But in my opinion... regarding Stevie, or any songwriter... I'm always going to give 70/30 credit, with the songwriter first, and the producer second, as the producer is only really embellishing what's already there (in my opinion).

Opinion understood. Of course you’re speaking as someone for whom the lyrics are an integral part of music. I’ve explained this several times: lyrics don’t hold that much value for me (it’s not that difficult to write lyrics that are adequate to the piece, or something that’s thoroughly incomprehensible and thus the message wouldn’t matter), that’s why I’m prone to give more credit to those who are responsible of the actual music. When there’s this “hi-jacking” going on; large atmospheric shifts that happen when Lindsey takes a particular Stevie song into his gloves, my appreciation for the arranger will be even bigger. Like David once quoted, it’s “magnificent castles of sound built out of seemingly thin air”. But I guess it doesn’t matter how we put the ratio here; Stevie’s performance is always crucial to the success of a song. And we all love these songs in the end.

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
At any rate, I'm still chuckling over the fact that, nearly 17 years after its release, we're still having multi-page debates about "When I See You Again."

That’s how it tends to be with works of art where self-parody and seriousness go together hand in hand. Note though, I still appreciate the song, like I appreciate “Family Man” which is another self-parody that deserves a book written about it.

Originally posted by darklinensuit
I agree, and IMO some folks rely too much on that Christine quote about Lindsey fixing Dreams.

It’s not just a single quote that I’m basing this on; it’s by comparing Stevie’s demos to the final products and by intent listening on Lindsey’s playing that leads into this. For me “Dreams” is musically all about that guitar and those harmonies. One of the message boards I like to visit on is a board where people discuss all kinds of music. Occasionally there’s a discussion on FM; a while ago they were talking about “Dreams” and how the track seems to have no immediately grappling musical hook on it (as you can guess, there’s no FM fans on that board; I wonder if they have anything else than Rumours anyway). They came to the conclusion that the track relies on subtle little things: how darn sexy Stevie sounds on it, how the minimal groove of Mick and John contributes a lot to the final track, etc. They praised the guitar and the harmonies especially. No one commended on Stevie’s basic songwriting. It just proves to me that you can go from very rough beginnings to something so great that even former musical snobs would feel the significance.

Originally posted by EricBliss12345
I was in no way trying to stir **** when I said Lindsey let her make an ass out of herself. Do you really think none of the other band members winced when they heard that vocal track play back? I really thought I was giving a well thought out and balanced opinion there! That's the best I can do!

No problem there Eric; I overreacted myself and apologize for that. Your comment just seemed to me to be playing around with the stereotype of Lindsey being this “dominative ego-feeding idiot” who around the time of TITN sessions didn’t want to support Stevie because of emotional problems or whatever. Basically it would be the same if I went to the pre-Rumours board and started talking about Bob Welch being the biggest stoned-out hippie whose writing is always the same because of a brain atrophy (compare 'HOW-many-PEOple-SIT-home-at-NIGHT...' with 'And ALL of the THINGS that I SAID that I WANted'). Mind you, I wouldn’t do that because I respect Bob deeply. Anyone who creates an album like The Other One can always have a pint or two in my household.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I'm not really sure why we're even debating this. I'm also not sure how the existence of another mix featuring both vocals, necessarily "proves" your point and "weakens" mine.

You stated that it was "highly unlikely" Stevie removed her voice from the mix, which I assume to mean that you believe Lindsey must have recorded his vocal separately... therefore there would be no need to remove another vocal.

(And perhaps it should be noted here that Lindsey's voice is noticeably more prominent on the left channel, even on the album version.)

I have three versions of "When I See You Again."
The album version; the mix where they're both singing the "If I see you again" coda; and a third where the ending is merely more repetitions of the line "what's the matter, baby," as the song fades.

Given that it's common practice to make safeties (backup copies) of the various takes, why is it so hard to believe that a copy could still exist of the mix that featured both Stevie and Lindsey, while also believing that Stevie could have "removed" her vocals (a task which probably really only amounted to dropping her voice out of the mix) from the master to create the version the band used for the album?

Stevie has had a hand in remixing various tracks over the years, and has produced or co-produced some others... so surely she has enough knowledge of the soundboard to be able to drop her vocals out of a mix.

So what causes the improbability in your mind? And what would make it such a hard pill to swallow if she had?
It was 17 years ago, and it's not like it really matters one way or the other if she had.

Down, boy! Methinks you're getting waaaaay too defensive here. I'm not questioning whether your beloved Nicks can push up a f*cking slider on a soundboard. You'd have to be an idiot not to figure that out. What I am saying is that because of the very nature of how recordings are approached, it is highly unlikely she could get away with "wiping out" her voice from the mix. You addressed that issue yourself: There are safety copies and sound engineers/producers don't tend to erase things from the mix; they merely hide them. Is it possible that she touched a slider? Of course. I'm merely arguing that she didn't wipe out the vocal nor was it her final decision.

In the quote you used, "took my voice off" are the words she uses, as if to imply that sneaking into the studio to "take off" her voice from the mix is as simple as that. As if Lindsey wouldn't have noticed before the mix was mastered. That's why I called it a tall tale. Even if she did that -- which is unlikely because she was in the studio for, what, three days? -- chances are Lindsey would have noticed the very next time he played the mix. Her quote implies she pulled one over on him, and I contend it's simply not believable.

Take a deep breath now.

[David]

Originally posted by blackdove
WISYA is my favourite Stevie song from Tango, its awesome!

Mine, too. It's a naked little ballad on which Fleetwood Mac sounds sublime. It's one of the highlights of the album.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
At any rate, I'm still chuckling over the fact that, nearly 17 years after its release, we're still having multi-page debates about "When I See You Again."

Aren't you just the teeniest bit proud of me for staying out of this thread with my negative WISYA energy?

I deserve a medal!

[dissention]

Originally posted by trackaghost
I also hate the implication that Stevie's main contribution is the lyrics. I was under the impression she wrote most of her best known songs, music AND lyrics

You're right and "That Made Me Stronger" is a testament to that. The lyrics are pretty bad, but the music is worse. I don't understand why she wrote those lyrics but didn't heed them.

Originally posted by trackaghost
Oh wait Keith Olsen produced that didn't he? (Yeah, yeah I know Linds was involved!)

But he also produced Mirror Mirror.

Originally posted by trackaghost
I'm in no way denying Lindsey's talent as a producer or the amazing way he has helped shape Stevie's best songs but if he didn't have good material to work with in the first place then it wouldn't matter what flourishes or studio wizardry he added, it would still be a dudd song. I mean, is Lindsey that amazing that he could turn The Cheeky Girls into credible artistes or make I'd Rather Jack a great song? Well?

He couldn't make those good songs, but I'd bet my life that he could make them more tolerable. I think what we're all missing is that Lindsey is the one person who truly understands what Stevie is trying to do and that understanding makes him a better producer than the other people she's worked with. For me, no one can compare to what Lindsey has done with her songs. Yeah, some of her solo songs are works of genius, but could imagine how much better those genius songs would be if Lindsey put his stamp on them? They were meant to work together and appreciate each others work.

Originally posted by trackaghost
It could be suggested that Lindsey's attention to detail and perfectionism can sometimes go too far. (Right remember now that I'm saying this as a huge Lindsey fan, and we all can't like the same things) The album that everyone holds up as Lindsey's masterpiece, Out Of The Cradle, suffers from too much production and polish for my taste. It's almost like he has smoothed away all the personality of those songs (I still like that record but it stops me from loving it!). I always thought that's why it wasn't a big hit, not because it was too "leftfield" or "not meant for the mainstream", as Lindsey himself might put it, because it's very mainstream. Sometimes a little rawness and a few mistakes here and there add the real personality. That's why I've always loved Tusk, his true masterpiece..

OOTC was his most mainstream work up until that point in his career. The reason it failed was because the general public had forgotten about him, the promotion behind it stunk, and it wasn't the hippest kind of music at the time. The same things you said about that album can be attributed to many of Stevie's solo albums, IMO. I enjoy many songs off of RAL, but the slickness of it really turns me off like you said about Lindsey's album. It seems to me that the rawness and emotion of her work was literally buried underneath a bunch of junk; it had turned into a non-entity, whereas with OOTC, I appreciate the slickness because I know that it was produced as a labor of love. Lindsey put his heart and soul into that record, lyrically and musically, while RAL came off as a calculated attempt at modernizing Stevie's sound, all the while forgetting what the whole thing was about: the music.

Originally posted by trackaghost
The other thing that bothers me is the suggestion that if Lindsey had worked on Stevie's solo albums that they would be transformed from albums you "tolerate" to "the greatest albums ever". I personally disagree. I can't imagine Lindsey producing a song like Edge Of Seventeen or even Stand Back or Wild Heart. I can't! And if he did they would be completely different tracks and I love those songs exactly the way they are. I think those albums show a different side to Stevie, one which wasn't represented in Fleetwood Mac and one which I don't think we would have ever seen if she hadn't decided to make solo albums.

If those songs had been originally released as FM songs, you'd say the same thing, though. However, I do agree with you somewhat.

Originally posted by trackaghost
The other thing implied is that all Stevie's albums have the same formula or "approach". I don't think they do actually. Jimmy Iovine's "laissez-faire" approach sounded to me like a real band playing live, which is why I always loved his work and also why so many of those songs transformed so well to stage. Bella Donna is essentially Stevie Nicks backed by Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers and I can't think of a better combination than that. I thought TOSOTM suffered because it sounded more like a studio creation. Street Angel suffered simply because Stevie and her voice were so uninspired at that time, but I still maintain the worse songs on that record are the covers not her self-penned tunes.

I think they do have the same formula and approach: make a really great record that is as mainstream as possible and make sure that it sounds slick enough to slip on. Granted, FM is a very mainstream band, but not as mainstream as Stevie solo is. After awhile, a lot of Stevie's solo tunes got pretty boring because you could tell exactly how it would sound before you even got up to the first-minute mark.

Originally posted by trackaghost
Also John Shanks is a good producer because he is a Lindsey wannabe?! Pur-lease! I don't really rate him actually, I prefered most of the songs he didn't produce on that album apart from maybe Planets Of The Universe (although the extended version is 10 times better than the album version) and I can't see Lindsey producing a song like that in a million years (which is why she needs to do solo stuff).

The opening chords to POTU sound like the opening chords to Rhiannon, only backwards. I don't know the technical jargon, so someone help me out! And I always thought the reason she needed to do solo stuff was to release more of an output.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Down, boy! Methinks you're getting waaaaay too defensive here. I'm not questioning whether your beloved Nicks can push up a f*cking slider on a soundboard. You'd have to be an idiot not to figure that out.
Take a deep breath now.

Well, isn't that sweet? In a matter of a few sentences, you painted me like some over-emotional and irrational fan, who has no idea what they're talking about.

I think I've offered a very probable explanation as to how Stevie's comments could be true, without ever veering into "Stevie's a goddess, so it MUST be true" territory.

So thanks for the little pat on the head, Daddy.

And sure, "took my voice off" is how she described it, but I doubt anyone expects Stevie to go into some long technical explanation as to how one would go about fiddling with various knobs in order to drop their voice out of a mix.

She also never said that Lindsey was shocked or surprised when the album was released, and he heard that he was the only one singing at the end of the song. That's putting words into her mouth.

All she ever said was that Lindsey would not think to sing solo at the end of one of her songs, and that, in order to get the vibe she was after, she had to sing the lines along with him, and then remove her voice from the mix.

She very well could have played "her" mix for the band five minutes later to show them how she had been wanting it to sound all along.

Again, as I said previously, I'm 100% positive that Lindsey had to be aware of what she did fairly quickly after the fact, as these mixes must get final approval from all involved before they're sent off to be mastered.
I don't think I ever implied that she pulled a major fast-one on Lindsey, and that he was in the dark the entire time.

But hey, you know, if you want to believe Stevie's just completely talking out of her ass there, and that the whole thing could only have been another one of Lindsey's brilliant touches, that's fine.

(By the way, that she was only in the studio for "three days" is another one of those exaggerated comments that has been taken for gospel. If it was only three days, they must have gotten a lot of work done, what with Stevie recording multiple vocals takes on "Seven Wonders," "When I See You Again," and "Welcome To The Room, Sara," as well as "What Has Rock And Roll Ever Done For You," "Juliet," and "Joan Of Arc."
Not to mention recording backing vocals for "Little Lies," "Everywhere," "Family Man," and "Big Love.")