Rumours Part 2... are you serious?

[aleuzzi]

SYW is a substantial album. It has ideas. What’s good is very very good. But about 1/3 of it sinks under its weight.

Even the greatest moments on SYW leave me a bit chilled. For all of their supposed “chemistry” LB’s and Stevie’s songs on the album do not hang together all that well. As a listener, I find a lot of it interesting and even innovative—but it lacks earth, and it lacks heart. By contrast, Christine’s IN THE MEANTIME has so much heart, is so genuine and honest. No pretense or posturing…No calculation.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

SYW is a substantial album. It has ideas. What’s good is very very good. But about 1/3 of it sinks under its weight.

Even the greatest moments on SYW leave me a bit chilled. For all of their supposed “chemistry” LB’s and Stevie’s songs on the album do not hang together all that well. As a listener, I find a lot of it interesting and even innovative—but it lacks earth, and it lacks heart. By contrast, Christine’s IN THE MEANTIME has so much heart, is so genuine and honest. No pretense or posturing…No calculation.

Christine didn't make promises on her sweet lips.
Nor did she have lies on her honeyed tongue!
But yet, magic in her fingertips...

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Christine didn't make promises on her sweet lips.
Nor did she have lies on her honeyed tongue!
But yet, magic in her fingertips...

Anything was possible…

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

As a listener, I find a lot of it interesting and even innovative—but it lacks earth, and it lacks heart. By contrast, Christine’s IN THE MEANTIME has so much heart, is so genuine and honest. No pretense or posturing…No calculation.

Well I must agree with this since I listen to ITM all the way through more from time to time. SYW... I usually listen to songs that I always choose. Again, I’m not a music pro, so I won't compare albums technically, but as a simple listener, I simply enjoy ITM much more.

So I did the homework Macfan4life asked me to do. Yes SYW sounds great with headphones (Lindsey's production never dissapoints). But so does Tango or Mirage. Even The Dance, I loved to listen to it with headphones. Sorry but it didn't change my feelings about the SYW album.

For the record, I don't hate it. I do like some songs. But I do find the album less Fleetwood Mac, a bit cold, lacks heart.

Back to the topic, SYW is not Rumours 2 at all. Maybe the recording process and decisions had similarities to Tusk, but it is not Tusk 2 either.

Now, I remember back in those days there were "what if" threads about an In The Meantime Say You Will album. I found it fun, specially because that would have mean Christine never left the band. I think the title of that album would have been completely different—starting with the fact that it wouldn't have included 31 songs. I’m not going to play the game of picking which ones, but in that parallel universe, I imagine it with a more Mac sound.

[dougl]

A recent article re: SYW..

https://natscanfly.substack.com/p/i-...bout-fleetwood

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

SYW is a substantial album. It has ideas. WhatÂ’s good is very very good. But about 1/3 of it sinks under its weight.

Even the greatest moments on SYW leave me a bit chilled. For all of their supposed “chemistry” LB’s and Stevie’s songs on the album do not hang together all that well. As a listener, I find a lot of it interesting and even innovative—but it lacks earth, and it lacks heart. By contrast, Christine’s IN THE MEANTIME has so much heart, is so genuine and honest. No pretense or posturing…No calculation.

If I were to get rid of a third of the album, I would probably end up with this as a running order.

Everybody Finds Out
What's the world coming to
Smile at you
Bleed to love her
Thrown Down
Steal your heart away
Say you will
Miranda
Destiny Rules
Peacekeeper
Goodbye Baby
Say Goodbye

I like the punchy, attention-grabbing opening of EFO (John's bass is great, as it is on SAY) although it's a shame the music wasn't written by Stevie; this tracklist also gets rid of LB songs on which Nicks doesn't really feature and it reins in Lindsey's weirdness (Miranda is his most edgy contribution that remains, IMO). It also has Christine's two archival contributions early on which means she's less buried in the saggy middle. It does remind us of her absence, though. I do find the album as it is a bit of an endurance test. Perhaps this suggestion is a bit more cohesive.

DR and Peacekeeper have a gloomy edge that twins them together. I like the jaunty sadness of Say Goodbye (think You and I part 2) so much that I want it to be the last thing I hear of the experience- it would be a counterbalance to giving the lead-off to Stevie for the first time.

It's not exactly Rumours 2, but maybe it's Tango 1.5.

Would it have made much difference in terms of reception and sales? Probably not. But the six excised songs could have featured in a follow-up Mac album, an EP or perhaps more appropriately on solo offerings.

[Edit] Hmm. I've just listened to my reduced SYW. I really rather liked it.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by dougl

A recent article re: SYW..

https://natscanfly.substack.com/p/i-...bout-fleetwood

Wow, this is spot on! natscanfly, you nailed it.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by dougl

A recent article re: SYW..

https://natscanfly.substack.com/p/i-...bout-fleetwood

Wow a bit harsh that article is.

Let’s see. What do I agree with? Well yes, I’m one of those who most prefer selected songs to the album as a whole. But though it doesn’t sound like the Fleetwood Mac I expected, I don’t call it a mess. That’s too much. I agree some of the 9 + 9 songs sounds like solo works together, but it is not a mess.

18 tracks too many? For commercial reasons yes, specially for an “old” band releasing an album in 2003. There have been $uccessful double albums like The Wall, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road and even phenomenons like Grease and Saturday Night Fever. But look at the years those albums from those old bands are from. A Fleetwood Mac long album (or a double one) was a challenge in 2003 that I don't think was necessary. But as Macfan4life said, we shouldn't judge albums based on sales (I agree, but that has nothing to do with whether or not we liked them).

Ok by 2003 Stevie Nicks wasn't writing songs as good as she did in the 70s to early 80s anymore, but I don't know which ballads are being referred to with “that sound like they were written by your stoned mom who just got back from Neverland”. I laughed at that, I must say. And I’m intrigued if it means the Disney movie island or the MJ ranch.

When I read “The band encountered some difficulties with the sequencing for Say You Will”, I remember threads here from that year where some ledgies suggested a different order to listen to it, affirming “You'll like this album better with this track order”. Yes many didn't like the sequence, or blamed it for their dislike of the album.

I don’t like the title that much but Say You Will is better than Strangely Familiar. It could have started theories of What does it mean??? but it would have been like repeating the “rumours” all over again.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

If I were to get rid of a third of the album, I would probably end up with this as a running order.

Everybody Finds Out
What's the world coming to
Smile at you
Bleed to love her
Thrown Down
Steal your heart away
Say you will
Miranda
Destiny Rules
Peacekeeper
Goodbye Baby
Say Goodbye

I like the punchy, attention-grabbing opening of EFO (John's bass is great, as it is on SAY) although it's a shame the music wasn't written by Stevie; this tracklist also gets rid of LB songs on which Nicks doesn't really feature and it reins in Lindsey's weirdness (Miranda is his most edgy contribution that remains, IMO). It also has Christine's two archival contributions early on which means she's less buried in the saggy middle. It does remind us of her absence, though. I do find the album as it is a bit of an endurance test. Perhaps this suggestion is a bit more cohesive.

DR and Peacekeeper have a gloomy edge that twins them together. I like the jaunty sadness of Say Goodbye (think You and I part 2) so much that I want it to be the last thing I hear of the experience- it would be a counterbalance to giving the lead-off to Stevie for the first time.

It's not exactly Rumours 2, but maybe it's Tango 1.5.

Would it have made much difference in terms of reception and sales? Probably not. But the six excised songs could have featured in a follow-up Mac album, an EP or perhaps more appropriately on solo offerings.

[Edit] Hmm. I've just listened to my reduced SYW. I really rather liked it.

Miranda??

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Miranda??

I'm not sure I can see Come, Murrow or Red Rover working with the others. Maybe that's just me. I'm not a huge fan of Miranda but I thought it sounded OK there and at least Stevie contributes to it.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

I'm not sure I can see Come, Murrow or Red Rover working with the others. Maybe that's just me. I'm not a huge fan of Miranda but I thought it sounded OK there and at least Stevie contributes to it.

Come and Murrow didn't belong. They don't sound like FM at all.

[Macfan4life]

The Ledge, I Know I'm Not Wrong, Tusk, all need removed from Tusk. They don't sound like FM at all.
The hate for Lindsey on this board is just too much

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Come and Murrow didn't belong. They don't sound like FM at all.

Come and Murrow barely sound even like Lindsey. Murrow I kind of like, but I'm trying to think of a solo album of his that they would fit on. I love Red Rover, but it's definitely in keeping with "small machine" Lindsey.

For the record, I really like Lindsey's Tusk songs with the exception of NTF and WMYTYTO. That album was right for its time. With SYW, something else was needed, which wasn't quite what we got.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

The Ledge, I Know I'm Not Wrong, Tusk, all need removed from Tusk. They don't sound like FM at all.
The hate for Lindsey on this board is just too much

Just for Lindsey? Think about it.

I agree those 3 plus other Lindsey songs didn't sound like FM at that moment. Of the 3 songs you mention, I don´t like The Ledge, I often skip it. Not crazy about IKINW but it's ok. Though I usually skip all the alternate versions included in the Deluxe.

Tusk was called an experimental, new wave, different, etc. album and in large part, it was because of Lindsey. I agree with that, but I do like most of Lindsey Tusk songs. And for the record, Rumours is my favorite album.

I don't like Come, Illume, and Miranda. I've almost forgotten what they sound like.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Just for Lindsey? Think about it.

I agree those 3 plus other Lindsey songs didn't sound like FM at that moment. Of the 3 songs you mention, I don´t like The Ledge, I often skip it. Not crazy about IKINW but it's ok. Though I usually skip all the alternate versions included in the Deluxe.

Tusk was called an experimental, new wave, different, etc. album and in large part, it was because of Lindsey. I agree with that, but I do like most of Lindsey Tusk songs. And for the record, Rumours is my favorite album.

I don't like Come, Illume, and Miranda. I've almost forgotten what they sound like.

Lindsey has always been experimental. Its in his DNA. I am trolling the hypocrisy of those that love his experimentalism on Tusk and Law and Order but SYW is a bridge too far?