The continuing mystery of the Mac's 1974 tour

[Macfan4life]

There is enough circumstantial evidence from Mick's statements and factual events that Mick is full of sh*t.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news...cad07d8c&ei=58

[Villavic]

Yes, the phrase Elmer Gantry quoted from Mick book is right.

To this day I don't know the names of the musicians involved, and I don't wanna know. Years later, the singer of the group contacted us to apologise. He swore that the musicians had been told that I would be joining them on the road after a few shows, so they went ahead. Eventually they formed their own band and recorded a single, "Why Did You Do It," that was said to have some bearing on the case.

So he stated that he still doesn't know their names, including the one (the singer) he spoke to? Come on, this is the first time I've read about someone having a very delicate and serious conversation with someone whose name he doesn't know and doesn't want to find out.

But there's something I don't agree in this interview, with promoter Rich Engler:

It actually went rather well. “[T]here’s no MTV, no social media, no internet,” Engler said. “Unless you were a big fan of Fleetwood Mac, and if you only knew them from the radio, you might not know that this wasn’t them… [T]he audience was going wild and loving it. They weren’t Fleetwood Mac, but they were actually really good.”

Yes there was no MTV in the mid 70s, but if I used to listen Mac songs on the radio, and if I bought some of their albums, I'm pretty sure I'd know there as a girl in the band, a female voice, even with singles. Did no one wonder where she was? Fleetwood Mac wasn't a hugely popular band, but I'm sure their tours generated some magazine articles. Critics who weren't that familiar with the band must have wondered where the female singer was, anyway.

Cause according to Google, the "fake" lineup was:
Elmer Gantry: Vocals
Kirby Gregory: Guitar
Paul Martinez: Bass
John Wilkinson: Keyboards
Craig Collinge: Drums

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Yes, the phrase Elmer Gantry quoted from Mick book is right.

To this day I don't know the names of the musicians involved, and I don't wanna know. Years later, the singer of the group contacted us to apologise. He swore that the musicians had been told that I would be joining them on the road after a few shows, so they went ahead. Eventually they formed their own band and recorded a single, "Why Did You Do It," that was said to have some bearing on the case.

So he stated that he still doesn't know their names, including the one (the singer) he spoke to? Come on, this is the first time I've read about someone having a very delicate and serious conversation with someone whose name he doesn't know and doesn't want to find out.

But there's something I don't agree in this interview, with promoter Rich Engler:

It actually went rather well. “[T]here’s no MTV, no social media, no internet,” Engler said. “Unless you were a big fan of Fleetwood Mac, and if you only knew them from the radio, you might not know that this wasn’t them… [T]he audience was going wild and loving it. They weren’t Fleetwood Mac, but they were actually really good.”

Yes there was no MTV in the mid 70s, but if I used to listen Mac songs on the radio, and if I bought some of their albums, I'm pretty sure I'd know there as a girl in the band, a female voice, even with singles. Did no one wonder where she was? Fleetwood Mac wasn't a hugely popular band, but I'm sure their tours generated some magazine articles. Critics who weren't that familiar with the band must have wondered where the female singer was, anyway.

Cause according to Google, the "fake" lineup was:
Elmer Gantry: Vocals
Kirby Gregory: Guitar
Paul Martinez: Bass
John Wilkinson: Keyboards
Craig Collinge: Drums

No MTV and the members were not putting themselves on the front cover of their albums. In those days people listened to music and many listeners may not know what the band looks like. Chris slowly merged into the band. I am sure some knew but there were already so many different members by 1974 I dont think it would have jumped out that Chris was missing. Yes hardcore fans probably knew it but casual fans probably not.
Good grief there were people showing at the 2018 tour thinking Neil was Lindsey. And guess what there is internet today, MTV, and everything else and people still did not know.
But then again many did not care because apparently they really rocked and sounded good. The point Engler was making was today it would have stopped after the first night but this went on for several weeks before the cat got out of the bag. The issue the article is addressing is Mick's alleged involvement and then playing dumb.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Good grief there were people showing at the 2018 tour thinking Neil was Lindsey.

Yeah well that unfairly confirms Lindsey is not as popular as Stevie. I'm not a big fan of Guns N' Roses but I know and recognize Axl and Slash, though I admit I've no idea who the drummer is. But in this case Lindsey wasn't just a member in a band. So unfair, but that's how show business is.

Anyway that Neil/Lindsey example reminded me back in early 1998, I was taking a break at work checking some news and I read a sad one, so I commented to a friend "Sonny Bono has died in a skiing accident!" And she said "So now U2 is over???"

Yes it's not the same but I always recall that funny episode.

[FuzzyPlum]

Is there any record anywhere of what sort of setlist they played?

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Is there any record anywhere of what sort of setlist they played?

I would love to know that too. I've seen a few people on Facebook that claim to have been at the Pittsburgh show where much of the audience was not fooled and there were lots of booos. Others claiming they were ripped off.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

There is enough circumstantial evidence from Mick's statements and factual events that Mick is full of sh*t.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news...cad07d8c&ei=58

I've always wondered (and given we've had a fake Peter Green and a fake Jeremy Spencer in the past), if Mick on this occasion was being honest. What if the "Mick" the band met wasn't really Mick. What if that was why he wouldn't rehearse with them. I mean put any really tall guy in a hat and sunglasses and with an English accent, and you could fool people in to thinking it was Mick. He's not the most coherent guy, so you just have to make a few noises and mumble a bit.

The whole premise of the fake FM was that people didn't really know what the band looked like. Could that have worked on Elmer Gantry and co?

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

I've always wondered (and given we've had a fake Peter Green and a fake Jeremy Spencer in the past), if Mick on this occasion was being honest. What if the "Mick" the band met wasn't really Mick. What if that was why he wouldn't rehearse with them. I mean put any really tall guy in a hat and sunglasses and with an English accent, and you could fool people in to thinking it was Mick. He's not the most coherent guy, so you just have to make a few noises and mumble a bit.

The whole premise of the fake FM was that people didn't really know what the band looked like. Could that have worked on Elmer Gantry and co?

Ok but Elmer says A number of meetings took place, with the drummer seemingly providing approval to the new blood. “Mick later asked to be excused rehearsals as he was going through heavy personal issues,” so yes if the fake Mick was not even a drummer, that could make sense.

But if there were more than one meeting, Elmer should remember that face. And when Fleetwood Mac became a famous band with the Rumours lineup, Elmer would have discovered he was deceived by Clifford Davis, cause there are photos of Mick bearded and clean-shaven between 1975 and 1979. Elmer then identifies the Mick from the meetings with the Mick from Rumours lineup as the same person.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

I've always wondered (and given we've had a fake Peter Green and a fake Jeremy Spencer in the past), if Mick on this occasion was being honest. What if the "Mick" the band met wasn't really Mick. What if that was why he wouldn't rehearse with them. I mean put any really tall guy in a hat and sunglasses and with an English accent, and you could fool people in to thinking it was Mick. He's not the most coherent guy, so you just have to make a few noises and mumble a bit.

The whole premise of the fake FM was that people didn't really know what the band looked like. Could that have worked on Elmer Gantry and co?

Nah….we know mick too well (well, not personally, but well enough to know he’s a scheming, conniving snake who is not true to his word and would sell anyone and anything down the river, if it were in his own self interest). Mick thought the band was done and was in on a plan to resurrect it with a new line up. Whether that would have been temporary or not, he saw the buck in that tour and wanted part of it somehow.
He probably **** his pants when Bob welch got in touch ‘mick, we’ve got to do something’…..’oh, er, yeah, we do’

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Nah….we know mick too well (well, not personally, but well enough to know he’s a scheming, conniving snake who is not true to his word and would sell anyone and anything down the river, if it were in his own self interest). Mick thought the band was done and was in on a plan to resurrect it with a new line up. Whether that would have been temporary or not, he saw the buck in that tour and wanted part of it somehow.
He probably **** his pants when Bob welch got in touch ‘mick, we’ve got to do something’…..’oh, er, yeah, we do’

i could believe mick was willing to do anything to continue... but john knew about the new band and i assume chris did as well. i think the problem arose when they realized they could lose the legal right to the name fleetwood mac? like i don't think they were stressed that another band was out doing their songs but maybe they panicked when it looked like those guys would be able to take/keep the name... and Bob pushed them to do something about it.

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

What a wild conspiracy theory. Some circumstantial evidence on both sides. Mick's answers don't add up. The tour began in January 1974 as the band was about to record Heroes Are Hard To Find. It would not make sense to bless a fake band to tour while they were about to enter the studio. But then again this is Mick we are talking about.

[Street_Dreamer]

It's a tragedy that this story hasn't been given a deep look into. All we have is hearsay and very little factual evidence.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Ok but Elmer says A number of meetings took place, with the drummer seemingly providing approval to the new blood. “Mick later asked to be excused rehearsals as he was going through heavy personal issues,” so yes if the fake Mick was not even a drummer, that could make sense.

But if there were more than one meeting, Elmer should remember that face. And when Fleetwood Mac became a famous band with the Rumours lineup, Elmer would have discovered he was deceived by Clifford Davis, cause there are photos of Mick bearded and clean-shaven between 1975 and 1979. Elmer then identifies the Mick from the meetings with the Mick from Rumours lineup as the same person.

Put a hat, sunglasses or tinted glasses and a scarf on anyone imposingly tall and you could pass him off as Mick when Elmer didn't really know what he looked like. Years later when they were famous, Elmer didn't physically meet with him. If he did, that would have been the real test. For me the suspicous bit is that "Mick" didnt rehearse with them.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Nah….we know mick too well (well, not personally, but well enough to know he’s a scheming, conniving snake who is not true to his word and would sell anyone and anything down the river, if it were in his own self interest). Mick thought the band was done and was in on a plan to resurrect it with a new line up. Whether that would have been temporary or not, he saw the buck in that tour and wanted part of it somehow.
He probably **** his pants when Bob welch got in touch ‘mick, we’ve got to do something’…..’oh, er, yeah, we do’

Oh yes we all know that. I think Elmer is 100% honest in what he says, he has no reason to lie, and really had nothing to gain.

Its just my opinion, but I think the truth is more complex than Mick selling out his band mates for a few dollars.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

I think the truth is more complex than Mick selling out his band mates for a few dollars.

I agree with that. Even if it's true Mick did reunited with Elmer, something doesn't add up in this whole story. He will never admit that, so we will never know what did he tell Christine and John, cause I want to think he wouldn't abandon the whole band without telling them anything. I think he would have told Bob too, but that's debatable.

And it was more likely that he wouldn't leave John like that. I know it's Mick, and I could be wrong, but that's my first thought. Even if it wasn't out of friendship, Mick would be interested in at least bringing John along because he was the original Mac, and it gave more legitimacy to the new band. Anyway we will never know the whole story.