FM's Songbird- Documentary

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by WalkAThinLine.

She mentioned this during the segment on The Dance. I'm curious on how acrimonious things were between Lindsey and Stevie during The Dance Tour. Based on the comments Christine gave, it appears that their dynamics were still relatively negative. I'm curious if this also contributed to her decision to leave the band soon after Lindsey rejoined.

That's a good question. Although from what i heard, her personal life around that time was such a ****show that i wonder if she even gave a hoot what was going on with L&S. she was still drinking *a lot* during this period, even though they tried to make it sound like they'd all sobered up. that was BS. John was also drinking out the wazoo on that tour and was still completely enamored with her, and in a way she always loved that, but he could also get carried away...and on the road this was hard. (and was also why JC told George Hawkins he might be called in as the back-up bassist, just in case...because that situation was a little tricky.) Whatever was going on w L&S may have been the least of her worries lol


I think she was just tired, stressed, and thought her big move back to england was the last shot to save her crappy marriage. ed was making her life difficult, and she found out about his betrayal with a person very close to her during the dance tour... that whole mess probably made her give even fewer f*cks about staying with the band and continuing the tour or making an album etc. it seems like she was just done. period.

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

That's a good question. Although from what i heard, her personal life around that time was such a ****show that i wonder if she even gave a hoot what was going on with L&S. she was still drinking *a lot* during this period, even though they tried to make it sound like they'd all sobered up. that was BS. John was also drinking out the wazoo on that tour and was still completely enamored with her, and in a way she always loved that, but he could also get carried away...and on the road this was hard. (and was also why JC told George Hawkins he might be called in as the back-up bassist, just in case...because that situation was a little tricky.) Whatever was going on w L&S may have been the least of her worries lol


I think she was just tired, stressed, and thought her big move back to england was the last shot to save her crappy marriage. ed was making her life difficult, and she found out about his betrayal with a person very close to her during the dance tour... that whole mess probably made her give even fewer f*cks about staying with the band and continuing the tour or making an album etc. it seems like she was just done. period.

--Lis

That is really scary that George Hawkins was called even as a possibility during The Dance. Chris looked miserable during The Dance. She always looked like she was enjoying herself on stage every other tour except The Dance. But you know how miserable she was because for the first time she stood up to Mick and the band and said NO. She was always so loyal to the band and Mick. She was moving shortly to the UK anyway. Extending The Dance 3 weeks in Europe would not have been a big deal. It just shows how much she reluctantly went along for a 6 week tour.
I think the Stevie and Lindsey drama every album and tour wore thin with everyone the older they got.

Lindsey and Stevie fought like cats and dogs with OWTS too. It was out in the open on stage in Miami in early 2015. During her Gypsy speech she was telling the story touring with CCR and how their car broke down. Lindsey made his guitar or pedal or some other device honk twice like a car horn. Stevie stopped mid sentence and looked towards Lindsey and said "Who did that? Did you do that? I guess my story is going on too long" She stopped mid story and walked away. That was a little glimpse of their antics that spilled out on stage.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

That is really scary that George Hawkins was called even as a possibility during The Dance. Chris looked miserable during The Dance. She always looked like she was enjoying herself on stage every other tour except The Dance. But you know how miserable she was because for the first time she stood up to Mick and the band and said NO. She was always so loyal to the band and Mick. She was moving shortly to the UK anyway. Extending The Dance 3 weeks in Europe would not have been a big deal. It just shows how much she reluctantly went along for a 6 week tour.
I think the Stevie and Lindsey drama every album and tour wore thin with everyone the older they got.

Lindsey and Stevie fought like cats and dogs with OWTS too. It was out in the open on stage in Miami in early 2015. During her Gypsy speech she was telling the story touring with CCR and how their car broke down. Lindsey made his guitar or pedal or some other device honk twice like a car horn. Stevie stopped mid sentence and looked towards Lindsey and said "Who did that? Did you do that? I guess my story is going on too long" She stopped mid story and walked away. That was a little glimpse of their antics that spilled out on stage.

Yes JC told george that he "would be remiss in his duty to Chris" if he didn't have a back up plan in case things got messy. I believe george told me he'd been the back up for a couple of tours, because sometimes john really struggled. (i wonder if john even knew about this back up plan.) The later tours, after the cancer diagnosis/surgery etc he seemed better.

from what i heard, chris and john both had little patience for the tiffs or larger eruptions between L&S. how many years can you hear the same fights?? no progress was made.

can't say i blame LB for wanting her to wrap things up lol.

--Lis

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

That is really scary that George Hawkins was called even as a possibility during The Dance. Chris looked miserable during The Dance. She always looked like she was enjoying herself on stage every other tour except The Dance. But you know how miserable she was because for the first time she stood up to Mick and the band and said NO. She was always so loyal to the band and Mick. She was moving shortly to the UK anyway. Extending The Dance 3 weeks in Europe would not have been a big deal. It just shows how much she reluctantly went along for a 6 week tour.
I think the Stevie and Lindsey drama every album and tour wore thin with everyone the older they got.

Lindsey and Stevie fought like cats and dogs with OWTS too. It was out in the open on stage in Miami in early 2015. During her Gypsy speech she was telling the story touring with CCR and how their car broke down. Lindsey made his guitar or pedal or some other device honk twice like a car horn. Stevie stopped mid sentence and looked towards Lindsey and said "Who did that? Did you do that? I guess my story is going on too long" She stopped mid story and walked away. That was a little glimpse of their antics that spilled out on stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DedUrBIdf-4

Interesting. Would that have been before or after this?

(Sorry, not sure why I cannot get an embed to work.)

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

Yes JC told george that he "would be remiss in his duty to Chris" if he didn't have a back up plan in case things got messy. I believe george told me he'd been the back up for a couple of tours, because sometimes john really struggled. (i wonder if john even knew about this back up plan.) The later tours, after the cancer diagnosis/surgery etc he seemed better.

from what i heard, chris and john both had little patience for the tiffs or larger eruptions between L&S. how many years can you hear the same fights?? no progress was made.

can't say i blame LB for wanting her to wrap things up lol.

--Lis

It was beyond my wildest imagination that JC would accept a fb friend request from me, and that we'd actually have exchanges about our posts. It blew my mind.

He was a class act. RIP, JC.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

It was beyond my wildest imagination that JC would accept a fb friend request from me, and that we'd actually have exchanges about our posts. It blew my mind.

He was a class act. RIP, JC.

He was intensely loyal to them. he scared me though-- when we met john before a show during the dance tour and were chatting, i saw jc coming down the hallway towards us and i sort of whispered, 'Oh, sh*t.' and john turned around and saw him and chuckled at my reaction lol. JC reminded john of the time..."15 minutes mate" and then came back a few minutes later to remind him again! and sheepish john was like, 'I've gotta go get ready..' and i said 'yeah, you'd better!' lol

and btw JC was the reason i did not get a picture of me with john. i was too terrified to take the camera out from beneath the false bottom of my purse because i seriously thought he might confiscate it (or worse, have us thrown out!) i was scared of him lol, he didn't play!! but no hard feelings. i know he did his best for them all.


--Lis

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

from what i heard, chris and john both had little patience for the tiffs or larger eruptions between L&S. how many years can you hear the same fights?? no progress was made.

can't say i blame LB for wanting her to wrap things up lol.

--Lis

I still can’t wrap my head around how, at their age—and after decades together—they could still find things to fight about. By that point, they had separate dressing rooms, stayed in different hotels, and barely interacted on the plane. And yet, somehow, the drama never let up. To make it more baffling, a lot of the arguments sounded incredibly petty and trivial.

From what I observed, it seemed like by around 2011, it had become increasingly difficult to disagree with Stevie—or even just suggest an alternate idea—without it being taken as a challenge. Not ideal when you're working with someone like Lindsey, who tends to have a strong, specific perspective on just about everything. He also seemed to try using humor to defuse situations, but depending on the night, that probably came off more like an attack than an attempt to lighten the mood.

I'm 40 now, and I learned back in my early 30s that sometimes you just have to let things go. These days, I’m very selective about what—and who—is worth getting upset over. Meanwhile, these folks were well into their 60s and still hadn’t figured that out.

It must have been incredibly frustrating for John and Christine to watch the same old patterns play out all over again—even after 10 or 15 years. I still wonder what they talked about, sitting on that amp together during all those shows in 2014 and 2015.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

I still can’t wrap my head around how, at their age—and after decades together—they could still find things to fight about. By that point, they had separate dressing rooms, stayed in different hotels, and barely interacted on the plane. And yet, somehow, the drama never let up. To make it more baffling, a lot of the arguments sounded incredibly petty and trivial.

That's what I exactly felt in 2018. I was on vacation far from home when I learned "Fleetwood Mac fired Lindsey Buckingham". I didn't know the details for several weeks, just read headlines and thought Again? They're too grown-up people to be fighting like that. So I got angry with the whole band. And my reaction was, not to insult or complain about them, but simply to stop listening their songs.

But event after I learned about what happened, the Azoff call, Stevie supposedly offended by Lindsey's attitude at the Clinton event, etc. etc. I was still angry with all of them, even with J&C for continuing with the band without Lindsey. My "embargo" of avoiding their music lasted several months. Now I enjoye their songs again, but to this day I have not watched any video of the "Present Band" tour.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

I still can’t wrap my head around how, at their age—and after decades together—they could still find things to fight about. By that point, they had separate dressing rooms, stayed in different hotels, and barely interacted on the plane. And yet, somehow, the drama never let up. To make it more baffling, a lot of the arguments sounded incredibly petty and trivial.

From what I observed, it seemed like by around 2011, it had become increasingly difficult to disagree with Stevie—or even just suggest an alternate idea—without it being taken as a challenge. Not ideal when you're working with someone like Lindsey, who tends to have a strong, specific perspective on just about everything. He also seemed to try using humor to defuse situations, but depending on the night, that probably came off more like an attack than an attempt to lighten the mood.

I'm 40 now, and I learned back in my early 30s that sometimes you just have to let things go. These days, I’m very selective about what—and who—is worth getting upset over. Meanwhile, these folks were well into their 60s and still hadn’t figured that out.

It must have been incredibly frustrating for John and Christine to watch the same old patterns play out all over again—even after 10 or 15 years. I still wonder what they talked about, sitting on that amp together during all those shows in 2014 and 2015.

You are correct except for the fact you forgot that most rock starts are the most superficial, arrogant, and entitled people on earth. Stevie and Lindsey never got over each other and for the rest of their life have found petty ways to annoy the other and even write songs about each other decades after their relationship ended.
I used to think Fleetwood Mac had ridiculous petty fights until you read about Van Halen. I think most of that stemmed from the brothers owning and controlling the band. If you have ever worked for a business owned by a family you know what that is like. Alex Van Halen still will not talk to Sammy Hagar because the tequila business that Alex made Sammy sign and take control of (because it was losing money and Alex saw it as a risk) made Sammy Hagar $80 million dollars. Alex wanted out of the tequila deal so bad that he brought in a lawyer to make Sammy be accountable for it all and made Sammy buy his shares as it was losing money. When Sammy got rich over it Alex refused to talk to him. Eddie literally white washed and deleted Michael Anthony and his credits from the Van Halen website and as if he never existed in the band. He was erased because he was neutral in the fight between Sammy and Eddie. I wont even get into the David Lee Roth vs Sammy Hagar drama. Sammy Hagar never knew why Eddie freaked out and wanted him out of the band. Sort of like when Lindsey was fired. No one could really make sense of it.
Rock stars can be extremely arrogant, superficial ego maniacs.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

I still can’t wrap my head around how, at their age—and after decades together—they could still find things to fight about. By that point, they had separate dressing rooms, stayed in different hotels, and barely interacted on the plane. And yet, somehow, the drama never let up. To make it more baffling, a lot of the arguments sounded incredibly petty and trivial.

From what I observed, it seemed like by around 2011, it had become increasingly difficult to disagree with Stevie—or even just suggest an alternate idea—without it being taken as a challenge. Not ideal when you're working with someone like Lindsey, who tends to have a strong, specific perspective on just about everything. He also seemed to try using humor to defuse situations, but depending on the night, that probably came off more like an attack than an attempt to lighten the mood.

I'm 40 now, and I learned back in my early 30s that sometimes you just have to let things go. These days, I’m very selective about what—and who—is worth getting upset over. Meanwhile, these folks were well into their 60s and still hadn’t figured that out.

It must have been incredibly frustrating for John and Christine to watch the same old patterns play out all over again—even after 10 or 15 years. I still wonder what they talked about, sitting on that amp together during all those shows in 2014 and 2015.

Yep I'm sure most of the stuff was petty and trivial. Many folks continue to be difficult into their old age lol, and these two just seemed to irritate the crap out of each other. Stuff just festered and was brought up again and again, plus the enormous egos of (most) rock stars didn't help. The older stevie got, the more "yes" people she seemed to surround herself with... and maybe felt somehow obligated or pissy enough about Lindsey's opinions or behavior to constantly push back against issues big and small. It was like a never-ending power struggle and it doesn't seem they had much sense of humor about any of it.

If there are unresolved feelings in a relationship, even after decades, i'm sure it can be difficult to NOT be defensive or resentful to a degree, esp considering the feisty, fiery, opinionated intensity of S&L. Being kind of forced to be around each other when working i suppose made it unlikely much progress would ever be made. Fortunately, J&C didn't seem to have these issues but their personality types are sooo different from the Americans. They had a closeness that L&S simply did not have. Would have loved to have been a fly on that amp !

--Lis

[Villavic]

Not that I bought they'd fallen in love again in 1997, not at all. But I did enjoy those tender glances during The Dance. Many of us did. And I think that although they already had clashes during SYW, as we saw in the Destiny Rules video, by 2005 they were still enjoying sharing the stage, or so it seems here:
Say Goodbye
I love that version much more than the album one.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Not that I bought they'd fallen in love again in 1997, not at all. But I did enjoy those tender glances during The Dance. Many of us did. And I think that although they already had clashes during SYW, as we saw in the Destiny Rules video, by 2005 they were still enjoying sharing the stage, or so it seems here:
Say Goodbye
I love that version much more than the album one.

I think that is all rubbish. I remember the people that would write concert reviews of The Dance on the NicksFix saying how Stevie and Lindsey were in love and were going to rekindle their relationship after the tour. Many fans that became fans during the Dance believed this myth. The reality is Chris did not want to tour. Lindsey already fled the lunatics. Stevie had it out for Mick. I remember first hearing how the Mac was reuniting on Entertainment Tonight and Stevie saying she was no longer angry at these people. It was all for the money. For the short Mirage tour Lindsey and the members probably grossed a few thousand dollars. For Tusk they probably made a million. That was lots of money back then. But when the Dance came up they were to make several million each for just 6 weeks of touring not including all the money from the album.
The Mac did not reunite for artistic or creative reasons. Stevie and Lindsey did not fall in love. Mick, Chris, and John still drank like sailors. The only good thing that came out was Chris and Stevie quit smoking.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

I still can’t wrap my head around how, at their age—and after decades together—they could still find things to fight about. By that point, they had separate dressing rooms, stayed in different hotels, and barely interacted on the plane. And yet, somehow, the drama never let up. To make it more baffling, a lot of the arguments sounded incredibly petty and trivial.

From what I observed, it seemed like by around 2011, it had become increasingly difficult to disagree with Stevie—or even just suggest an alternate idea—without it being taken as a challenge.

long, long, long before that. she was difficult when the fame went to her head in the 70s, and once she had success as a solo performer, forget it. wasn't it the mirage album where she was miffed about the way they were doing something and she threatened them with "how will it look in the press if i come out and say I don't like it" etc etc..... she held them hostage for decades, threatening to bad mouth albums, or threatening to not tour, etc in order to get her way, to get more money, to get the most "star" treatment of them all..... Lindsey more than anyone would tell her off, but even he over time came to have to cater to her whims more and more.

it also got worse once she had her own "team" to back her up-- Irving, Howard Kaufman, Karen, and who knows who all else. She had/has a whole posse on her payroll like courtiers to the queen.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

long, long, long before that. she was difficult when the fame went to her head in the 70s, and once she had success as a solo performer, forget it. wasn't it the mirage album where she was miffed about the way they were doing something and she threatened them with "how will it look in the press if i come out and say I don't like it" etc etc..... she held them hostage for decades, threatening to bad mouth albums, or threatening to not tour, etc in order to get her way, to get more money, to get the most "star" treatment of them all..... Lindsey more than anyone would tell her off, but even he over time came to have to cater to her whims more and more.

it also got worse once she had her own "team" to back her up-- Irving, Howard Kaufman, Karen, and who knows who all else. She had/has a whole posse on her payroll like courtiers to the queen.

I've said it a billion times...

Stevie Nicks is the WORST thing that ever happened to FM.

Creativity died, when the old goat gained control.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

wasn't it the mirage album where she was miffed about the way they were doing something and she threatened them with "how will it look in the press if i come out and say I don't like it" etc etc.....

Interesting, every day I learn something new about my weird favorite band. Where did you read or hear that?