Say you will

[sue]

My late husband used to say..” I’m having a Bob morning”…meaning the whole day would be nothing but Dylan.

Well I had a Mac morning today..and played The White album, Tango in the night and Say you will.
Now I like Say you will …always have..but it’s just grown and grown on me.
In fact it’s right up there with Rumours for me…

I like most tracks on Say you will, there’s only maybe two I’m not keen on.
And some tracks are very good.

I honestly don’t understand why people don’t like it.
What is the problem with Say you will ??
Why is it people don’t like it ??

[HomerMcvie]

No Christine=no Fleetwood Mac.

(It's too dark without her)

[sue]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

No Christine=no Fleetwood Mac.

(It's too dark without her)

I agree it is dark, without Christine .without her light melodies and hooks …..but over the years I’ve accepted that.

It is what it is.
It took me ages to get over this isn’t really Fleetwood Mac.

(It was the same for me when Peter left…they just weren’t the same …until
Lindsey and Stevie ..)

[Macfan4life]

This is the only message board about a band where people hate the music from the band
Of course Say You Will is missing Christine. But that was not an option and an unfair criticism. Its like hating Rumours because Bob Weston did not play on it.
Say You Will is very Tusk like in its approach. Its insanely creative with songs like Illume and Come. Everyone hates them but seem to love The Ledge or I Know I'm Not Wrong. Stevie's songs kick ass on the album. I always find it odd that Say You Will suffers the same criticism as Tusk. Its too long, its too dark, its too cold, its not commercial enough and the band blamed Lindsey after both releases. But who cares if you dont like it. What I wish people acknowledge is Fleetwood Mac never played music like this before. Its packed with guitar, thumping bass, banging drums and insane grooves and melodies. Strip all the singing and its an insanely musical album. Everybody Finds Out is a masterpiece.

[sue]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

This is the only message board about a band where people hate the music from the band
Of course Say You Will is missing Christine. But that was not an option and an unfair criticism. Its like hating Rumours because Bob Weston did not play on it.
Say You Will is very Tusk like in its approach. Its insanely creative with songs like Illume and Come. Everyone hates them but seem to love The Ledge or I Know I'm Not Wrong. Stevie's songs kick ass on the album. I always find it odd that Say You Will suffers the same criticism as Tusk. Its too long, its too dark, its too cold, its not commercial enough and the band blamed Lindsey after both releases. But who cares if you dont like it. What I wish people acknowledge is Fleetwood Mac never played music like this before. Its packed with guitar, thumping bass, banging drums and insane grooves and melodies. Strip all the singing and its an insanely musical album. Everybody Finds Out is a masterpiece.

I bought it in a Charity shop so the cd cost me a couple of pounds and to begin with I didn’t like it, only a couple of the more commercial tracks I liked…
But there was something about it and I persevered…..it took me a good two years to appreciate it.
Yes it is a bit Tusk like, and both writers give up some great songs.
Some really artistic material, and deep too.
Especially as you say, Stevie.

I actually consider it the last Mac Album….
Not Buckingham Mcvie….(which is nowhere near as good..gonna get slated for that)

[HomerMcvie]

My deluxe version was GIVEN to me by my cousin's roommate. She bought it and HATED it.

[WalkAThinLine.]

Originally Posted by sue

My late husband used to say..” I’m having a Bob morning”…meaning the whole day would be nothing but Dylan.

Well I had a Mac morning today..and played The White album, Tango in the night and Say you will.
Now I like Say you will …always have..but it’s just grown and grown on me.
In fact it’s right up there with Rumours for me…

I like most tracks on Say you will, there’s only maybe two I’m not keen on.
And some tracks are very good.

I honestly don’t understand why people don’t like it.
What is the problem with Say you will ??
Why is it people don’t like it ??

Similar to Tusk, there's not a great deal of integration between Stevie's and Lindsey's work. The absence of Christine could have delivered a closer writing partnership between Lindsey and Stevie that was more akin to the Buckingham Nicks, but this did not occur. Most of Lindsey's songs were mostly complete by the time Stevie came in, and her vocals were tacked onto his songs near the end of production as demonstrated in the Destiny Rules documentary. It's as if she was an afterthought to his songs.

In terms of the songs themselves, I find them to be generally very good. Stevie's songs on this album are incredibly diverse and are in my opinion her best set of compositions since the Tusk album. "Illume", which I initially found to be excessively long and monotonous, is a rather unique song in that their catalog in that it's essentially built around a guitar riff, drum loop, and a single chord. There are lots of interesting layers that were carefully overdubbed, as is the case for several other songs on the album. Lindsey's batch of songs largely came from the 1990s, which was amongst his best creative periods as an artist. "Red Rover" builds upon his guitar-oriented composition approach with multi-tracked vocals and some unique percussion. Based on observations I've seen, even people who are lukewarm on Say You Will have praised the musicianship of John and Mick, who provide a very musical rhythm section on this album. I'm certainly pleased that they released this album, which was a far better note to end on than Time. I just wish that they continued in this direction for another Fleetwood Mac release, but we did get several solo releases soon after as a minor consolation. They could have easily done something in either the late 2000s or the 2010s though.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by sue

I bought it in a Charity shop so the cd cost me a couple of pounds and to begin with I didn’t like it, only a couple of the more commercial tracks I liked…
But there was something about it and I persevered…..it took me a good two years to appreciate it.
Yes it is a bit Tusk like, and both writers give up some great songs.
Some really artistic material, and deep too.
Especially as you say, Stevie.

I actually consider it the last Mac Album….
Not Buckingham Mcvie….(which is nowhere near as good..gonna get slated for that)

It would have been killer if Christine took part in it. I sort of wish they recorded an album before The Dance tour. Those vintage band cash grab tours threw creativity out the window which I am sure Lindsey would agree. In the old days a hit album with singles could make a band rich. Touring ever since the late 90s yielded tons of cash and things were never the same. As long as the band toured every 2 years and played the hits no one wanted or cared for new music especially since radio would probably not play it. Its an extremely frustrating last decades for this band. But we did get Say You Will, In The Meantime and BuckVie.
Like you I was not wowed by SYW the first few weeks I had it. When I started to work out and run with it every night is when I started to love it. Listen to it with headphones and you really appreciate the music.

[Villavic]

Dark is a good definition. But I’m not sure why I don’t like the SYW album enough. My first thought was that it’s because it doesn't sound enough like Fleetwood Mac, and that’s why I usually don’t listen Murrow Turning over in His Grave, Illume, Miranda, and Come. I skip those songs. But in fact I do enjoy the others songs, though none is within my top list. I feel those songs I like aren’t Fleetwood Mac enough. It’s more like listening solo songs.

Of course Christine absence is one reason. But I fell something else is missing. Probably Richard Dashut’s touch, or Dashut+Caillat. Or because their voices, especially Lindsey's, are not the same as on previous studio albums. I like BuckVie more than SYW, so it would seem the main reason is obvious. But I think it’s the sum of everything I have mentioned.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Dark is a good definition. But I’m not sure why I don’t like the SYW album enough. My first thought was that it’s because it doesn't sound enough like Fleetwood Mac, and that’s why I usually don’t listen Murrow Turning over in His Grave, Illume, Miranda, and Come. I skip those songs. But in fact I do enjoy the others songs, though none is within my top list. I feel those songs I like aren’t Fleetwood Mac enough. It’s more like listening solo songs.

Of course Christine absence is one reason. But I fell something else is missing. Probably Richard Dashut’s touch, or Dashut+Caillat. Or because their voices, especially Lindsey's, are not the same as on previous studio albums. I like BuckVie more than SYW, so it would seem the main reason is obvious. But I think it’s the sum of everything I have mentioned.

Its a catch 22. Without Chris they dont sound like Fleetwood Mac. If they tried to duplicate that sound people would have missed Chris even more. People said the same thing about Tusk including the band members. Most of Tusk did not sound like Fleetwood Mac and many times Lindsey is playing most of the instruments and even Chris disappears for 7 songs in a row or something.
There will was never going to be a Rumours 2 especially without Chris. I am thankful they did not go the adult contemporary and super pop just to sell albums and please people.
We all like different kinds of music. Thats wonderful. This board would be so boring if we all liked the same stuff. What makes me mental when discussing this album on this board over the years. I remember someone posted that they hated Illume because you cant sing along to it. Its a very solemn poem that Lindsey decided not to go the solemn route and did it very angry. Its not supposed to be a sing along song like Seven Wonders. Its like when some look at paintings of The Scream or Mona Lisa and say "I don't get it." Music is like painting as Lindsey often says. It can be art. Then people say the songs sound nothing like Fleetwood Mac while one of their favorite songs is Caroline which pretty much was lifted directly from a Lindsey solo album and sounds nothing like Fleetwood Mac. In fact very little of Tango sounds like Fleetwood Mac but that criticism is only given to SYW. Dear Lord, Come has too much guitar in it. But what about all the fake programmed stuff on Tango that had almost zero guitar.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by sue

I honestly don’t understand why people don’t like it.
What is the problem with Say you will ??
Why is it people don’t like it ??

I’m glad you like it so much, Sue, and as a fan, I wanted to like it when it was released, but it just never really captured me. I feel the same way about Buck/Vie, too. I think because I was a fan of all three singer/songwriters, when one is missing, it throws the experience off for me. Just having Lindsey and Stevie or Christine and Lindsey, without a third voice in the mix, somehow loses my interest. I dislike Say You Will more than Buck/Vie, but I suppose that’s because there’s more material to dislike- 18 songs vs 10. The only songs I love on SYW are Peacekeeper, Thrown Down, Say You Will, What’s the World Coming To, and Goodbye Baby- the rest I can’t even listen to.

Out of curiosity, what were the two songs you mentioned you don’t care for?

[aleuzzi]

When I first bought SYW I hated it. There was something I found cold and impersonal about the production. By this time, Stevie’s voice more noticeably nasal and some of Buckingham’s songs seemed dry and self-important. But about a month after it was released, I loved it. Illume, Throw Down, Red Rover, Say Goodbye, and Everybody Fins Out were and are my favorites. But also the title track is pleasant and Miranda is cool.

It feels like a substantial album. Meaty. Muscular. John and Mick come off really well.

But…the middle section sags. Dull, dull, dull. Peacekeeper is not a convincing single and Silver Girl is yawn-inducing.

I remember reading an interview at the time where it was revealed that Christine would have worked on it had she been allowed. That pissed me off. I understand touring an album where her songs might turn out to be the highlights could prove difficult without her on stage. But still.

When ITM came out a year later, I found the bulk of it more FM than anything on SYW. I challenge anyone who doesn’t think Giving It Back isn’t a quintessentially FM song. It is, much like Trouble was for Lindsey in 1981.

[Street_Dreamer]

Interestingly, Christine didn't write that song. Billy Burnette and George Hawkins did.

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I challenge anyone who doesn’t think Giving It Back isn’t a quintessentially FM song. It is, much like Trouble was for Lindsey in 1981.

[sue]

Originally Posted by bwboy

I’m glad you like it so much, Sue, and as a fan, I wanted to like it when it was released, but it just never really captured me. I feel the same way about Buck/Vie, too. I think because I was a fan of all three singer/songwriters, when one is missing, it throws the experience off for me. Just having Lindsey and Stevie or Christine and Lindsey, without a third voice in the mix, somehow loses my interest. I dislike Say You Will more than Buck/Vie, but I suppose that’s because there’s more material to dislike- 18 songs vs 10. The only songs I love on SYW are Peacekeeper, Thrown Down, Say You Will, What’s the World Coming To, and Goodbye Baby- the rest I can’t even listen to.

Out of curiosity, what were the two songs you mentioned you don’t care for?

The two I like the least are Come, never have liked that song.
And Everybody finds out…I don’t like Stevie’s voice on that one.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer

Interestingly, Christine didn't write that song. Billy Burnette and George Hawkins did.

No, she wrote the song with them. On the album and elsewhere, she is listed first in the songwriting credits.

Since Mirage, Christine co-wrote many of her songs. But she still retained her style and invited others into her unique process.