Big Love Live

[seteca]

Originally posted by face of glass
Sure, for "Big Love" and "Go Insane" anyway. But not for "Here Comes The Sun", I think.

On HCTS he was using a Turner RS-6 guitar going through a Roland VG-8 synth pad. The RS-6 is a steel strung guitar so using a synth pad gives a sweeter sounding texture than using a simple DD-3 delay, but ultimately the end result is the same. i.e. to slightly sweeten the sound of the guitar - and not to assist him in any way.

Other than that one unit it wasn't going through anything else, and his playing on that song is mindblowing and one of his most technically challenging pieces.

My point is that unlike (to use an extreme example) a typical live Pink Floyd solo which critically depends on a large number of FX units, ALL of Lindsey's acoustic songs would still sound 95% the same and instantly recognisable even if all/any of his FX units were switched off - they're there because the song sounds that little bit better with it/them, only.

Originally posted by face of glass
I thought that he benefits from the delay in some other way too; if his thumb lets him down when he's doing those quavers it isn't audible to the audience because of the FX. Or that's what I once read from one of the guitar wizzes on this forum.

I think I remember which post you're talking about, but the writer was talking about him/herself - not Lindsey. Yes it's true that if you miss one of the bass notes then a correct delay will make your mistake seem less apparent, but it would still be very much noticeable (a picked bass note and a delayed bass note are clearly distinguishable, even if you're using the finest Lexicon delay racks) and I've never heard Lindsey miss a single bass note as he is an extremely gifted Travis picker. Also, if you increase the level of the feedback on the delay unit to such a level where a played note and the delayed note are close to indistinguishable in terms of volume, it means you have to be even MORE accurate and pretty much perfect in your playing to avoid making any mistakes - the slightest error would horribly echo right through that part of the song.

Originally posted by face of glass
Keith Richards once said of Robert Johnson that he seemed to have "three brains" because Johnson was capable of playing the boogie bass figure along with the melody and also singing at the same time. Lindsey's struggled his way to the same situation too, but "Big Love" doesn't have the same spontaneity that Robert Johnson's pieces have.

No "Big Love" certainly does not have the spontaneity of those Robert Johnson pieces, but the songs have totally different roots. Robert Johnson was not a Travis picker (he simply played the melody and bass independently at the same time) and was playing blues songs (which are by their very nature the most spontaneous and improvisional songs in the Western world), while Lindsey's roots lie in bluegrass (a style whose songs are generally fixed, highly melodic, pieces) and "Big Love" could very easily be defined as a classical guitar composition. I would not say that Lindsey "struggled to get himself to the same situation", because he was going for a totally different type of song and performance. (Furthermore, some live versions/rehearsals of "The Chain", "Landslide", "Never Going Back Again" and "World Turning" from the 70s clearly show that he was already an amazing Travis picker and could improvise whenever he felt like it.) Lindsey said (not literally) that "Big Love" was the start of something he'd been wanting to do for a very long time i.e. create a song where there are enough simultaneous parts from one guitar which would allow him to keep the number of other musicians on stage with him to a minimum, and for some songs make that number equal to zero. He never implied that he was going to use that method to give his songs any more or less spontaneity.

Originally posted by face of glass
LB obviously went through plenty of rehearsing before he started to pretend that he, too, has three brains

It's not just Keith Richards who used the "3 brains" term. Guitarists (and other musicians) who are able to play two independent parts at the same are often labelled as people who are able to "divide their brain into two". People who can sing (well!) on top of that are said to be able to "divide their brain into three". I think that unless you sat down with both Robert Johnson and Lindsey Buckingham and timed how much they practiced and rehearsed their respective songs, it's impossible to say which one of the two is more worthy of the "3 brain accolade". There's nothing to "pretend" about - they are both musical geniuses and legends, and that's as far as their similarities go.

[fleetfootmike]

Originally posted by seteca
I've never heard Lindsey miss a single bass note as he is an extremely gifted Travis picker.

Beg to differ He definitely fluffed the leadin to verse two of Big Love at the second NEC gig - not enough for the average non-musical-obsessive to notice, I suspect.

(Furthermore, some live versions/rehearsals of "The Chain", "Landslide", "Never Going Back Again" and "World Turning" from the 70s clearly show that he was already an amazing Travis picker and could improvise whenever he felt like it.)

"World Turning"'s a whole 'nother story
My problem with that isn't the riff, which is actually not THAT hard, but the fact that (like the very simple riff in "Peacekeeper") you have to totally disengage your playing brain from your singing brain, and leave the riff running on comeplete autopilot while you sing something that's rhythmically different over the top.

I think that unless you sat down with both Robert Johnson and Lindsey Buckingham and timed how much they practiced and rehearsed their respective songs, it's impossible to say which one of the two is more worthy of the "3 brain accolade". There's nothing to "pretend" about - they are both musical geniuses and legends, and that's as far as their similarities go.

In a completely different style, listen to the late and remarkably excellent Isaac Guillory: my first introduction to him was a live recording of a jazz blues, bass/chords/melody all flowing and independent. Awesome.

BTW, seteca - we clearly need to meet up for a beer and a jam sometime

[chiliD]

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
My problem with that isn't the riff, which is actually not THAT hard, but the fact that (like the very simple riff in "Peacekeeper") you have to totally disengage your playing brain from your singing brain, and leave the riff running on comeplete autopilot while you sing something that's rhythmically different over the top.

Which is the very concept of "lead singing bass players"...they amaze me.

[fleetfootmike]

Originally posted by chiliD
Which is the very concept of "lead singing bass players"...they amaze me.

You too, huh?

The likes of Phil Lynott amaze me. It's one thing strumming and singing, but a melodic bass line and singing?

It took me long enough to get voice and fingers round the descending lick that runs under the last note of the vocals in the first couple of verses of "Green Manalishi"!

[seteca]

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
Beg to differ He definitely fluffed the leadin to verse two of Big Love at the second NEC gig - not enough for the average non-musical-obsessive to notice, I suspect.

Ah yes..I was standing right in front of him as he did it....I hope it wasn't because of my manic grin....lol..! I'm pretty sure it was a left hand fretting mistake though (as opposed to actually missing a bass note). It sounded (and looked, from what I remember) suspiciously like a case of the "guitarist's worst nightmare" - that moment during a live performance when for some reason your brain decides to momentarily forget everything it knows about guitar and the song, and even though you've played and rehearsed it 1000 times before you feel like a chimp at the controls of an F-16.lol.

If we hear an mp3 of that show I'm sure we'll be able to tell. I know somebody definitely recorded the Manchester and London gigs, but don't know about Birmingham (or any of the other UK shows.)

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
BTW, seteca - we clearly need to meet up for a beer and a jam sometime

Absolutely! A Model One, a Les Paul, some Boss FX units, amps, and a bottle of Jack Daniels....sounds good to me!

[fleetfootmike]

Originally posted by seteca
It sounded (and looked, from what I remember) suspiciously like a case of the "guitarist's worst nightmare" - that moment during a live performance when for some reason your brain decides to momentarily forget everything it knows about guitar and the song, and even though you've played and rehearsed it 1000 times before you feel like a chimp at the controls of an F-16.lol.

Ah... yes. Been there. Done that.

Long, complex, solo acoustic and voice setting of one of the poems from the Silmarillion. Most of the chords are serious finger-spaghetti things with long names. All except the very last one. Which is a simple, strummed, boring, vanilla, first-chord-you-learn C major.

Which takes me THREE goes to finger right.

[chiliD]

Also, nothing worse than an involuntary muscle twitch in the left index finger when trying to solo after 1,240 consecutive bars of barre-ing an "A" a chord at the second fret (think "Chuck Berry" rhythm pattern)