Destiny Rules documentary

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think it’s even simpler than that. She hasn’t had a song that’s connected with the masses in over 30 years. Her newer AHS fans love her persona and the music that made her relevant. A new album will most likely hurt her image and not attract new fans.

Similarly, a Fleetwood Mac album would have risked her being seen as the inferior writer in the band, which would have been the case. And, it would have been the case whether Lindsey was in the band or if Neil and Mike were in the band.

very interesting take.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Point being she didn't need four songs. She didn't need to spend a lot of time in the studio. She could have said "Christine and Lindsey have something special. I didn't want to get in the way. I decided to hang back and let them dominate the show."

It would have made her look big, not small.

An egomaniac simply can not accept that as a possibility.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

so you are - and have been - arguing it was Stevie and Irving who decided to pull the plug on Lindsey mid 2017, and then they pretended like that just happened completely unexpectedly on Jan 30th (on whenever Musicares was) and they were oh so scrambling to save the tour that didn't even have to happen.

i agree with you.

Not exactly. There was a mix of things that snowballed into Lindsey getting fired, but I don’t think kicking Lindsey out was the goal going into tour negotiations. MusiCares, at most, was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

[SteveMacD]

[

Originally Posted by cbBen

The band was defunct after January 1, 1996.

1996 was a reboot. Rumours members only. That limitation on membership lasted over 20 years. Lindsey's firing destroyed the legacy of the rebooted band.

There’s only one Fleetwood Mac legacy, and since Munich, 1970, it’s been that of a band that’s made great music while in some state of turmoil. Lindsey’s firing didn’t change that.

Legacy. Lindsey spoke of a “43 year legacy” the band was throwing away right on the heels of the 50th anniversary of the release of the first Fleetwood Mac album. Stevie brought back “Black Magic Woman” to a Fleetwood Mac setlist for the first time since 1974. Legacy.

However, if we’re going to refer to 1996 as a “reboot,” then that suggests we look at 1996-2018 on its own merits. So, what was the actual legacy of Fleetwood Mac after 1996?

One studio album, an EP, but they mostly became a big ticket oldies band plagued by very public in-fighting. Fleetwood Mac played more concerts in the five after Christine came back than they did in the decade before she came back.

Lindsey very much gave a damn about that band's legacy.

So, why didn’t he simply tell his label that any touring behind any solo work would have to commence after the Fleetwood Mac tour and that wasn’t open for debate? Worst case scenario, he gives the advance money back. No way Atlantic money is better than Fleetwood Mac touring money.

As for his leaving in '87, he was surrounded by children drinking and doing drugs. He wanted to grow up, which necessitated getting away from that scene.

He could have traveled separately. He would never have had to interact with any of them beyond the actual show. Or so I’ve been told.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Stevie didn’t give a crap about the album or tour. At most, she was annoyed at being asked questions about it. She was headlining 20,000 seat arenas with the Pretenders opening. LBCM headlined 4,000 seats amphitheaters, most of which were about 2/3 to 3/4 full. LBCM only factors in because it showed once and for all that Stevie was the big draw. It solidified her power in the band and further weakened Lindsey’s.

But, it was the Classic shows and Lindsey’s comments before the Classic shows that tanked his standing. You’ve all read Irving’s response by now. Are there really any doubters left?

And, then, Tom Petty died.

Hell of time to ask for the tour to be delayed right as tour negotiations start.

Ehhhh...nobody actually knows how she felt about that album. What we do know is she barely acknowledged it and when she was asked about it a handful of times she had a very canned response that stunk of needing to be polite and thats about it. It was "Im happy for them" in one breath and "I don't understand their premise" in the other.

But I have a hard time believing that the critical success and all of the film footage of them happily recording that album *without her* didn't get under her skin. Not for a minute. She couldn't order a pizza without including a 30 minute story about her special connection with pepperoni.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

[

He could have traveled separately. He would never have had to interact with any of them beyond the actual show. Or so I’ve been told.

Yeah and Stevie Nicks could have laid off the blow for six weeks too. Or so I've been told.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

[
There’s only one Fleetwood Mac legacy, and since Munich, 1970, it’s been that of a band that’s made great music while in some state of turmoil. Lindsey’s firing didn’t change that.

Legacy. Lindsey spoke of a “43 year legacy” the band was throwing away right on the heels of the 50th anniversary of the release of the first Fleetwood Mac album. Stevie brought back “Black Magic Woman” to a Fleetwood Mac setlist for the first time since 1974. Legacy.

However, if we’re going to refer to 1996 as a “reboot,” then that suggests we look at 1996-2018 on its own merits. So, what was the actual legacy of Fleetwood Mac after 1996?

One studio album, an EP, but they mostly became a big ticket oldies band plagued by very public in-fighting. Fleetwood Mac played more concerts in the five after Christine came back than they did in the decade before she came back.


So, why didn’t he simply tell his label that any touring behind any solo work would have to commence after the Fleetwood Mac tour and that wasn’t open for debate? Worst case scenario, he gives the advance money back. No way Atlantic money is better than Fleetwood Mac touring money.


He could have traveled separately. He would never have had to interact with any of them beyond the actual show. Or so I’ve been told.

Stevie did NOT bring back Black Magic Woman - she openly admitted that she didn't realize it was a Fleetwood Mac song, she thought Santana did the original!!! Pretty hard to suggest a song you didn't know the band did in the first place. It was somebody else in rehearsals that brought up the song. But please, let's give credit to Stevie for acknowledging the legacy of this band. That's hilarious.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Stevie did NOT bring back Black Magic Woman - she openly admitted that she didn't realize it was a Fleetwood Mac song, she thought Santana did the original!!! Pretty hard to suggest a song you didn't know the band did in the first place. It was somebody else in rehearsals that brought up the song. But please, let's give credit to Stevie for acknowledging the legacy of this band. That's hilarious.

As someone who heard her speech, it was clear she was talking about when she joined. Rick Vito wanted to bring it back in 1987. John McVie vetoed it because of the Santana version, which is why they did “I Loved Another Woman” instead.

Stevie was the one who wanted to go deeper into Fleetwood Mac’s catalog. She’s the one who initiated the listening party with Mick in Italy.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by cbBen

The group could have said what Graham Nash eventually said about Daylight Again (a CSN album that was SN with Crosby tacked on at the end of the process, and contributing just one original song): "This combination/permutation (i.e. Stills-Nash) is the only one that has never been tried."

They could have said now that Christine has rejoined, we want to feature her prominently and see what a FM album sounds like produced by Lindsey and dominated by Christine.

Stevie could have said she liked and approved of the idea and it was perfect timing for it anyway given that she was busy with her 24 Karat Gold tour. Then she could have made a token appearance with a two songs and some backing vocals. She still has two good unused songs, no? If not she could just hand over her poetry book and tell Lindsey to draw a couple songs out of it, perhaps with Waddy Dave Stewart and Mike Campbell on hand to help put her words into music.

Or simply put “Not Make Believe” (with Christine dubbed in), “Sad Angel,” “Without You,” and “Ms. Fantasy” on the album.

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Or simply put “Not Make Believe” (with Christine dubbed in), “Sad Angel,” “Without You,” and “Ms. Fantasy” on the album.

yep. she just needed to simply say yet to this, and didn't have to move even a little finger.

yet she said no.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Or simply put “Not Make Believe” (with Christine dubbed in), “Sad Angel,” “Without You,” and “Ms. Fantasy” on the album.

I can actually hear Stevie more on Sad Angel than I can on The Chain. Sad Angel is a very Stevie prominent song so this is a good idea.
Could have done another Twisted with Christine this time

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I can actually hear Stevie more on Sad Angel than I can on The Chain. Sad Angel is a very Stevie prominent song so this is a good idea.
Could have done another Twisted with Christine this time

Twisted, pt VII

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Stevie was the one who wanted to go deeper into Fleetwood Mac’s catalog. She’s the one who initiated the listening party with Mick in Italy.

It is amazing that by their last show of the tour they only did Black Magic Woman and Oh Well. I guess the audiences weren't feeling the pre 75 songs?

The only pre 75 song Stevie was on stage for the majority of the tour was BMW. Hypnotized got played 5 times? Seems like she wanted pre-75 stuff played so she could chill backstage

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

It is amazing that by their last show of the tour they only did Black Magic Woman and Oh Well. I guess the audiences weren't feeling the pre 75 songs?

The only pre 75 song Stevie was on stage for the majority of the tour was BMW. Hypnotized got played 5 times? Seems like she wanted pre-75 stuff played so she could chill backstage

i can easily envision this supposed Stevie - Mick convo about playing more pre-Rumours stuff:

• Mick and Stevie both vacation in Italy, their paths cross
• Mick mentions to Stevie how nice it would be to include some new Buckvie stuff in their next live tour
• Stevie doesn't want to even hear any of that
• then Mick tells Stevie there was FM music before she joined and tries to talk her into playing some of those deep cuts instead
• her response - no deep cuts, nobody wants to hear that, but wasn't there something really really popular? she adds Lindsey will not want any non-Rumors era music (she always likes to put words in Lindsey's mouth)
• Mick probably said, we'll see.

PR interpretation: it was Stevie's idea to play pre-Rumours era music live, but Lindsey wouldn't let them.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

As someone who heard her speech, it was clear she was talking about when she joined. Rick Vito wanted to bring it back in 1987. John McVie vetoed it because of the Santana version, which is why they did “I Loved Another Woman” instead.

Stevie was the one who wanted to go deeper into Fleetwood Mac’s catalog. She’s the one who initiated the listening party with Mick in Italy.

That is some flex man….you really believe that the same person whose arm has to be twisted to dust off popular album tracks was the primary cheerleader for pre-75 material in 2018? That’s some strong kool aid.

Since she’s such a blues advocate you’d think she would have done a blues album by now. Oh wait…it would take too much time and cost too much money.