Destiny Rules documentary

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Right! It’s also absurd that Rosetta Tharpe wasn’t inducted until 2018.

Madness. Diana Ross, Chaka Khan, Tracy Chapman, LaBelle, Gloria Estefan, and Mary J Blige should've been in before 2019.

But Stevie's white and has Irving, who got himself in the Hall in 2020, so she got in before them.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

What’s worse is crapping all over the legacy of the band

Did Lindsey give a damn about the band’s legacy when he quit 56 days before opening night?

blocking the completion of an album with all 5 members,

She didn’t block the completion of the album, she just didn’t participate. As I asked elsewhere, is there anything Stevie Nicks circa 2014-16 could have contributed that would have made the album better or would it have been another TITN situation? I’d rather have ten solid, good songs than an album that’s all over the map.

The only gripe I have is that it wasn’t credited to Fleetwood Mac and that Lindsey stuck to the ridiculous “it felt like a duet album” script, proving he was just as much of a liar for the big machine as anyone else.

It’s tragic he completely forget the equation when asked if he was looking forward to the Classic shows. All he had to say is something like “it’s always great whenever Fleetwood Mac gets back together on stage.” To throw your manager’s massive festival under the bus is almost a good idea.

forcing major lineup decisions to be made without informing the rest of the band first (apparently Christine wasn’t informed until after the fact)

The vibe I got is they did it that way to protect Christine. However, even if she had been included in the vote, she would have sided with Mick. Her loyalty was always to Fleetwood Mac.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

You’re not wrong. Her stance on recording new music has either been “it costs too much for what it will sell” or “it takes too much time and I’m not willing to invest that amount of time” Having a #1 FM album would be the only thing that would make it worthwhile in her eyes because she’s only interested in the recognition at this point in the game.

Her tune flip flops a bit more when discussing solo records (shocker) for a brief period she decided she didn’t care how many copies 24k sold etc. Yet, we are quickly approaching 8 years since 24k was released and the only thing that followed it up was a live album and two single tracks.

A live album that has 3 songs from the album the tour was promoting in a 20 song setlist.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Did Lindsey give a damn about the band’s legacy when he quit 56 days before opening night?


She didn’t block the completion of the album, she just didn’t participate. As I asked elsewhere, is there anything Stevie Nicks circa 2014-16 could have contributed that would have made the album better or would it have been another TITN situation? I’d rather have ten solid, good songs than an album that’s all over the map.

The only gripe I have is that it wasn’t credited to Fleetwood Mac and that Lindsey stuck to the ridiculous “it felt like a duet album” script, proving he was just as much of a liar for the big machine as anyone else.

It’s tragic he completely forget the equation when asked if he was looking forward to the Classic shows. All he had to say is something like “it’s always great whenever Fleetwood Mac gets back together on stage.” To throw your manager’s massive festival under the bus is almost a good idea.


The vibe I got is they did it that way to protect Christine. However, even if she had been included in the vote, she would have sided with Mick. Her loyalty was always to Fleetwood Mac.

Or you know maybe he stuck to the duet script as a way to give Stevie an out instead of constantly putting her in the hot seat. I know painting Lindsey as the biggest jerk in the world is a favorite pasttime, but perhaps it was a moment of grace instead of lying for the big machine.

I actually agree that in hindsight it’s a better album without her. She clearly didn’t have much to offer then and now.

[BigAl84]

Oh they knew exactly what they were doing leaving Christine in the dark. It wasn’t about protection. They knew darn well she would have slammed down the gavel on that BS immediately. They couldn’t afford to lose Christine and Lindsey. Then it becomes Stevie and the Mac band. I could be crazy but didn’t it eventually come out that Christine threatened to quit, but it was a bit of a moot point because Lindsey was already fired?

[jbrownsjr]

I didn't see it until much much later. But, Lindsey lost a lot of power by leaving in 1987. He showed mgmt:

1. Lindsey could be replaced and they could successfully tour with Stevie and Christine. I think the Vito/Burnette line up lost steam because they didn't want to do it anymore. (1990) But, in 2018 they only need one tour. Why? THEY OLD!!!

2. He stuck it to the band (1987) and the people that make money from them. I don't think they ever forgot that. Doesn't matter if his own personal choice was justified by Mick and Stevie's horrible behavior. You have to show up in that business. You can't just quit. Nobody will ever trust you again.

I also believe Christine lost a lot of power and confidence after her 15 yr absence. Leaving had weakened both of them. Christine cost them a lot of money during The Dance. They could have sold out Europe. And meanwhile, Stevie is building her power and mgmt to the level that her assistant has just as much say as a band member. (Leaving weakened her too). But she got back to busine$$.

So in 2002, when Lindsey is trying to create with his new found 4 piece and write and produce FM, he can no longer get them to buy into making "art".
He can't convince them to flip the industry on its head and make a double album. Heck, he can't even get Stevie to write with him. She came in with her songs, did her parts, wanted creative control of her work, and boom she was gone until the tour.

She then later complained - probably I'm guessing because - the album didn't do well. They even put out a deluxe package with the extra tracks and that had to cost a lot.

He kind of opened the door for them to axe him. He knew she was a egomaniac. And Mick was not going to protect him. (as you can see in the documentary). And then in 2018, Mick again went with what Carl, or Irving or anyone else holding the wallet wanted.

Period.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

A live album that has 3 songs from the album the tour was promoting in a 20 song setlist.

And how many years after the release of the album and the last date of the tour!? LOLOLOL

[elle]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I honestly forget I'm a mod. What's to mod? You people all say the same things Over and Over again.

lol. i was really tempted to quote over and over the other day, in one of the threads here.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by elle

lol. i was really tempted to quote over and over the other day, in one of the threads here.

There's no stopping you!

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I didn't see it until much much later. But, Lindsey lost a lot of power by leaving in 1987. He showed mgmt:

1. Lindsey could be replaced and they could successfully tour with Stevie and Christine. I think the Vito/Burnette line up lost steam because they didn't want to do it anymore. (1990) But, in 2018 they only need one tour. Why? THEY OLD!!!

2. He stuck it to the band (1987) and the people that make money from them. I don't think they ever forgot that. Doesn't matter if his own personal choice was justified by Mick and Stevie's horrible behavior. You have to show up in that business. You can't just quit. Nobody will ever trust you again.

I also believe Christine lost a lot of power and confidence after her 15 yr absence. Leaving had weakened both of them. Christine cost them a lot of money during The Dance. They could have sold out Europe. And meanwhile, Stevie is building her power and mgmt to the level that her assistant has just as much say as a band member.

So in 2002, when Lindsey is trying to create with his new found 4 piece and write and produce FM, he can no longer get them to buy into making "art".
He can't convince them to flip the industry on its head and make a double album. Heck, he can't even get Stevie to write with him. She came in with her songs, did her parts, wanted creative control of her work, and boom she was gone until the tour.

She then later complained - probably I'm guessing because - the album didn't do well. They even put out a deluxe package with the extra tracks and that had to cost a lot.

He kind of opened the door for them to axe him. He knew she was a egomaniac. And Mick was not going to protect him. (as you can see in the documentary). And then in 2018, Mick again went with what Carl, or Irving or anyone else holding the wallet wanted.

Period.

Lindsey should have watched his back way more. Judging by all of his sentiment expressed in the lawsuit, I think he was misguided in thinking that the era of hardball band politics was over. He viewed them as extended family that may often disagree, but would always have each others back. I think his uncomfortable relationship with Irving was a wake up call, but it was already too late. I’m not sure he saw Mick’s willingness to be completely spineless coming a mile a way like the rest of us did. I also don’t think he expected Stevie to be so reluctant to record when Christine returned. It ultimately seemed like Christine’s return caused a new level of band politics to surface in a way that was much different than all the prior years without Christine. There was huge dollars associated with Christine’s return and the pressure was on.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

What I meant was that if the album didn't hit #1, Stevie would be devastated. She was when In Your Dreams hit #6. Stevie was really hot in 2014 and even with that and the TV appearances, 24KG hit #7

I think it’s even simpler than that. She hasn’t had a song that’s connected with the masses in over 30 years. Her newer AHS fans love her persona and the music that made her relevant. A new album will most likely hurt her image and not attract new fans.

Similarly, a Fleetwood Mac album would have risked her being seen as the inferior writer in the band, which would have been the case. And, it would have been the case whether Lindsey was in the band or if Neil and Mike were in the band.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Or you know maybe he stuck to the duet script as a way to give Stevie an out instead of constantly putting her in the hot seat. I know painting Lindsey as the biggest jerk in the world is a favorite pasttime, but perhaps it was a moment of grace instead of lying for the big machine.

LOL! Sure, that’s not a CBS level lie.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I didn't see it until much much later. But, Lindsey lost a lot of power by leaving in 1987. He showed mgmt:

1. Lindsey could be replaced and they could successfully tour with Stevie and Christine. I think the Vito/Burnette line up lost steam because they didn't want to do it anymore. (1990) But, in 2018 they only need one tour. Why? THEY OLD!!!

2. He stuck it to the band (1987) and the people that make money from them. I don't think they ever forgot that. Doesn't matter if his own personal choice was justified by Mick and Stevie's horrible behavior. You have to show up in that business. You can't just quit. Nobody will ever trust you again.

I also believe Christine lost a lot of power and confidence after her 15 yr absence. Leaving had weakened both of them. Christine cost them a lot of money during The Dance. They could have sold out Europe. And meanwhile, Stevie is building her power and mgmt to the level that her assistant has just as much say as a band member. (Leaving weakened her too). But she got back to busine$$.

So in 2002, when Lindsey is trying to create with his new found 4 piece and write and produce FM, he can no longer get them to buy into making "art".
He can't convince them to flip the industry on its head and make a double album. Heck, he can't even get Stevie to write with him. She came in with her songs, did her parts, wanted creative control of her work, and boom she was gone until the tour.

She then later complained - probably I'm guessing because - the album didn't do well. They even put out a deluxe package with the extra tracks and that had to cost a lot.

He kind of opened the door for them to axe him. He knew she was a egomaniac. And Mick was not going to protect him. (as you can see in the documentary). And then in 2018, Mick again went with what Carl, or Irving or anyone else holding the wallet wanted.

Period.

Three studio albums and 87 tour dates in 21 years during prime years of his career made him largely irrelevant to a generation and killed whatever power he might have had.

At least Christine had the advantage of her association with Fleetwood Mac since the very beginning and having had the lion’s share of the band’s hits.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Team Fleetwood Mac yet complacent with what took place in 2017/2018? That's always a head scratcher for me.

He supports his queen no matter her actions. We hold her accountable. THAT'S the difference.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I didn't see it until much much later. But, Lindsey lost a lot of power by leaving in 1987. He showed mgmt:

1. Lindsey could be replaced and they could successfully tour with Stevie and Christine. I think the Vito/Burnette line up lost steam because they didn't want to do it anymore. (1990) But, in 2018 they only need one tour. Why? THEY OLD!!!

2. He stuck it to the band (1987) and the people that make money from them. I don't think they ever forgot that. Doesn't matter if his own personal choice was justified by Mick and Stevie's horrible behavior. You have to show up in that business. You can't just quit. Nobody will ever trust you again.

I also believe Christine lost a lot of power and confidence after her 15 yr absence. Leaving had weakened both of them. Christine cost them a lot of money during The Dance. They could have sold out Europe. And meanwhile, Stevie is building her power and mgmt to the level that her assistant has just as much say as a band member. (Leaving weakened her too). But she got back to busine$$.

So in 2002, when Lindsey is trying to create with his new found 4 piece and write and produce FM, he can no longer get them to buy into making "art".
He can't convince them to flip the industry on its head and make a double album. Heck, he can't even get Stevie to write with him. She came in with her songs, did her parts, wanted creative control of her work, and boom she was gone until the tour.

She then later complained - probably I'm guessing because - the album didn't do well. They even put out a deluxe package with the extra tracks and that had to cost a lot.

He kind of opened the door for them to axe him. He knew she was a egomaniac. And Mick was not going to protect him. (as you can see in the documentary). And then in 2018, Mick again went with what Carl, or Irving or anyone else holding the wallet wanted.

Period.

Lindsey’s weapon has always been critical recognition and wide respect of rock-n-roll peers. In the late 80s Henley cited Lindsey as a great producer and player. Clapton used him to produce a song on BEHIND THE SUN. The critics loved most of his quirky, often boutiquey albums. And no matter who replaced him, Christine always cited him as the best for the band.

This was not enough.

RUMOURS and FLEETWOOD MAC turned the band into money-making stars. Once the other four got a taste of the good life, they were zeroed in on staying commercially viable. Once Stevie’s solo debut became the fifth best selling album of 1981, she was the band’s main route to guaranteed success. Fleetwood Mac’s weapon became their mass appeal—and Lindsey’s creative attempts to undermine that were getting in the way...so to speak. At the same time, they couldn’t reach their commercial heights (on record) or turn in explosive shows (on tour) without him.

The band’s decision to fire him may have seemed like a safe calculation (ie: people will still come to see “the girls”) but it did serious damage to their legacy. About as much damage as Stevie not choosing to record that last album with them, something that would have put a beautiful bow on top of the whole FM package. In hindsight, it’s clear she was plotting LB’s firing even before BuckVie went on tour. As long as their collaboration was not a Fleetwood Mac album, there was no danger of the band needing to tour a hit record with LB. As long as FM simply did greatest hits tours, they could replace him, albeit with dubious results.