Destiny Rules documentary

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

And when Lindsey made appearances on Tom Petty and Don Henley songs, I guess he was doing that to take them away from her, in a sense.

The truth is, it's just a small world. You see the same musicians and crew around all of the time and make connections.

Christine stole George Hawkins, Billy and Todd!

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Christine stole George Hawkins, Billy and Todd!

Stevie was a ghost writer for Love Will Show Us How but passed it to Chris because it didn't fit on RAL. She was one of the LOVE dancers in the video too.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Christine stole George Hawkins, Billy and Todd!

Lindsey had Ray date Sharon Celani for the sole purpose of infiltrating Stevie’s band and undermining her success. Michele

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Taku didn't play with Lindsey while Stevie was on tour. When Taku did the Under The Skin Tour, Stevie wasn't on tour. Taku went on to Bette Midler.

Ah, you're right. I guess Brett is the only one and, given he didn't have some long-term contract, he's free to play with whoever he wants; just as Stevie is free to discontinue using someone and hire someone else.

Okay, I withdraw my accusation.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Stevie was a ghost writer for Love Will Show Us How but passed it to Chris because it didn't fit on RAL. She was one of the LOVE dancers in the video too.

Stevie originally auditioned for the part of Mr. LeGrand.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Stevie originally auditioned for the part of Mr. LeGrand.

true but she wanted to remain anonymous. Stevie asked Brad Jeffries to choreograph the Love Dancers. You cant see their faces so its hard to determine which one is Stevie, Brad, Sharon and Lori.
The original script did not involve a UFO either. A giant cow bell was to drop from the stage and surround Chris and her piano. Chris was supposed to knock 3 times and say Rock A Little to escape. The final script was panned as being too cheezy of a promotion especially since RAL was still a year away from release. They eventually settled on "How will you feel 20 years from now." That too was scrapped and Chris stood her ground and the UFO came back.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Ah, you're right. I guess Brett is the only one and, given he didn't have some long-term contract, he's free to play with whoever he wants; just as Stevie is free to discontinue using someone and hire someone else.

Yes, Brett first played with Stevie after The Dance on Enchanted Tour. But Mick is the one who brought Brett into FM.
In 2006, Stevie said to Brett that he had to choose which band he was going to be in and he chose Lindsey's. It was nice that he came back for her In Your Dreams Tour so he got to play new songs with Stevie again like he did on TISL Tour.

Of course Neale Heywood is Lindsey's guy and Lindsey brought him into FM for The Dance. The only time Stevie worked with Neale Heywood solo was when she used his track for New Orleans.

[cbBen]

The Enchanted tour is fantastic. Maybe her best solo tour since the early '80s. I have the pro-shot Woodstock '98 video from the webcast. It is fantastic.

1998 was when I first became a FM fan. I considered going to see her, but it was pricey relative to other shows at the time and I was a brand new fan (and even then of FM, not of Stevie solo).

I would see her later in 2005 and, with TP & The Heartbreakers, in 2006.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Lindsey had Ray date Sharon Celani for the sole purpose of infiltrating Stevie’s band and undermining her success. Michele

He had Neale date Waddy so they could universally pick off anyone at anytime.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Lindsey was undoubtedly benefiting from the success of Fleetwood Mac which is far from riding Stevie’s coattails since she was in no conceivable way more responsible for FM’s success than he was.

Sure. Fleetwood Mac would have TOTALLY still been an arena band if they’d fired Stevie and brought back Bekka Bramlett in 2008.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Sure. Fleetwood Mac would have TOTALLY still been an arena band if they’d fired Stevie and brought back Bekka Bramlett in 2008.

Yes, that is the litmus test: subtract the member in question and ask what happens to the band's commercial fortunes.

In the 2000's the prospect of Lindsey producing a FM album that would sell in the many millions was no longer present and, financially, Stevie's value to the band dwarfed his (returning to the subject of the thread, in the documentary Stevie–in contradistinction to the others–seems to understand the true prospects for how Say You Will will sell). This dynamic was even more in evidence in 2018 after her hugely successful 24 Karat Gold tour.

The 2018-19 incarnation of the band played large venues. Had they done the honorable thing and told Stevie rather than Lindsey to take a hike if she refused to share the stage with him, they would have either played smaller ones or half-empty ones.

Though to be fair, they would not have replaced Stevie with Bekka. They would have either soldiered on without her or replaced her with a big name such as Bonnie Raitt.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Though to be fair, they would not have replaced Stevie with Bekka. They would have either soldiered on without her or replaced her with a big name such as Bonnie Raitt.

By contrast, Fleetwood Mac would have been fine in 2008 with Billy and Rick back so long as Stevie was in the band.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Yes, that is the litmus test: subtract the member in question and ask what happens to the band's commercial fortunes.

In the 2000's the prospect of Lindsey producing a FM album that would sell in the many millions was no longer present and, financially, Stevie's value to the band dwarfed his (returning to the subject of the thread, in the documentary Stevie–in contradistinction to the others–seems to understand the true prospects for how Say You Will stands to sell). This dynamic was even more in evidence in 2018 after her hugely successful 24 Karat Gold tour.

The 2018-19 incarnation of the band played large venues. Had they done the honorable thing and told Stevie rather than Lindsey to take a hike if she refused to share the stage with him, they would have either played smaller ones or half-empty ones.

Though to be fair, they would not have replaced Stevie with Bekka. They would have either soldiered on without her or replaced her with a big name such as Bonnie Raitt.

Absolutely! They had very limited options.


1. Continue as a 4 piece and play small venues like Winwood. He occasionally would team up with Steely Dan and then it's Hollywood Bowl type arena. Fleetwood Mac and another big name could put them in an arena w/o Stevie.

2. Replace her with big name. Bekka would not be an option. Completely agree.

The risk involved financially by choosing Lindsey over Stevie was insurmountable. There's no way someone is not going to choose a sure thing over a risky attempt to make the band a viable option w/o Stevie. I don't even blame Mick because his hands were tied.

[anusha]

Totally agree. By the time Stevie gave them her ultimatum — and that’s what it was no matter how she wants to dress it up — the band had to pick her if they wanted to play stadium shows. And at that point, in their 70s, on what was likely going to be their last stadium tour, they weren’t going to stand on principle.

What was sad about it is how shady they were about it in public. That’s the part that I mostly hold against Stevie. In all honestly, both Stevie AND Lindsey sound like pretty awful people, at least when it comes to each other and likely with other people too. I wouldn’t have blamed Stevie if she has owned it and said, “you know, I’ve tried to make it work with Lindsey for 40 years as colleagues and it’s been a real challenge because we are very different people and have a hard time seeing eye to eye. I’m at a point in my life where I don’t want to live with that kind of conflict and tension, and my band mates support my decision. We will always be thankful to Lindsey for all the beautiful music we made together and wish him well in the future.”

Ultimately though, Stevie didn’t want to be blamed for Lindsey leaving so they blamed him, and that is what made this even worse. And then his press after the lawsuit made it clear why he and Stevie shouldn’t be in the same continent much less the same band. Sheesh.

In some ways, without Christine, maybe this means we will be spared any talk of a totally disingenuous reunion now. Because I can’t imagine anyone falling for it. Not at today’s ticket prices.

But the issue with picking Stevie over Lindsey was marketability which many would say is different than value. However, if you’re an oldies band doing an oldies set list, marketability is really all that matters anyway.

[michelej1]

I blame them because none of them needed the money, except for Mick and because at least 2 out of the 3 of them (Mick, John and Christine) had to have the sense to know that Stevie's ultimatum wouldn't last if they refused to back down. Not only does Stevie want tour money. She wants the attention that Fleetwood Mac brings. She wants to play stadiums. She wants the press. She wants the legacy.

She didn't just want to go back out there dodging balls thrown by Rod Stewart fans. Yep, she has the most solo fans, but they don't give her everything she needs.

How long did any of them really think she'd refuse to tour, if Lindsey was part of it? And, except for Mick, if she did continue to refuse, what the heck do they care? John didn't seem happy touring any longer and Christine seemed like she wanted to keep her promise never to "break the chain" again, but she also would have liked to be home with her dogs.

That tour probably cost both John and Christine time off of their lives. I could never have guessed that Christine was in danger, but John looked taxed. It took a physical toll on him. If Lindsey had been wth them, I don't really say the same thing about him, because he is a ham. He is stimulated on stage. He might die there, during his ISA theatrics, but I don't think he'd care. If he'd toured, I don't think he'd have had the heart attack, but if he had, it would have been a lot less tragic turn of events. I can't get over the betrayal.

The argument that they HAD to do it if they wanted to tour doesn't really persuade me. They could have had the tour and their backbones, too.