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#136
12-10-2003, 11:55 AM
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Here's a quote from the Washington Post that should lay "Turkeygate" to rest: "Officials said they did not know the turkey would be there or that Bush would pick it up. A contractor had roasted and primped the turkey to adorn the buffet line, while the 600 soldiers were served from cafeteria-style steam trays, the officials said. They said the bird was not placed there in anticipation of Bush's stealthy visit, and military sources said a trophy turkey is a standard feature of holiday chow lines." Rob 
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." - Winston Churchill "The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? " "(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me." - Dennis Miller 
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#137
12-10-2003, 12:40 PM
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#138
12-10-2003, 01:08 PM
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USA Today article But...I forgot, Bush can do no right. He's mean. You can spin anything any politician says or does to make them look bad. The only opinion that really matters is that of the troops he visited. Rob
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." - Winston Churchill "The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? " "(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me." - Dennis Miller
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#139
12-10-2003, 01:10 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/10/in.../10GAS.html?th High Payments to Halliburton for Fuel in Iraq By DON VAN NATTA Jr. Published: December 10, 2003 he United States government is paying the Halliburton Company an average of $2.64 a gallon to import gasoline and other fuel to Iraq from Kuwait, more than twice what others are paying to truck in Kuwaiti fuel, government documents show. Halliburton, which has the exclusive United States contract to import fuel into Iraq, subcontracts the work to a Kuwaiti firm, government officials said. But Halliburton gets 26 cents a gallon for its overhead and fee, according to documents from the Army Corps of Engineers. The cost of the imported fuel first came to public attention in October when two senior Democrats in Congress criticized Halliburton, the huge Houston-based oil-field services company, for "inflating gasoline prices at a great cost to American taxpayers." At the time, it was estimated that Halliburton was charging the United States government and Iraq's oil-for-food program an average of about $1.60 a gallon for fuel available for 71 cents wholesale. But a breakdown of fuel costs, contained in Army Corps documents recently provided to Democratic Congressional investigators and shared with The New York Times, shows that Halliburton is charging $2.64 for a gallon of fuel it imports from Kuwait and $1.24 per gallon for fuel from Turkey. A spokeswoman for Halliburton, Wendy Hall, defended the company's pricing. "It is expensive to purchase, ship, and deliver fuel into a wartime situation, especially when you are limited by short-duration contracting," she said. She said the company's Kellogg Brown & Root unit, which administers the contract, must work in a "hazardous" and "hostile environment," and that its profit on the contract is small. The price of fuel sold in Iraq, set by the government, is 5 cents to 15 cents a gallon. The price is a political issue, and has not been raised to avoid another hardship for Iraqis. The Iraqi state oil company and the Pentagon's Defense Energy Support Center import fuel from Kuwait for less than half of Halliburton's price, the records show. Ms. Hall said Halliburton's subcontractor had had more than 20 trucks damaged or stolen, nine drivers injured and one driver killed when making fuel runs into Iraq. She said the contract was also expensive because it was hard to find a company with the trucks necessary to move the fuel, and because Halliburton is only able to negotiate a 30-day contract for fuel. "It is not as simple as dropping by a service station for a fill-up," she said. A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers, Bob Faletti, also defended the price of imported fuel. "Everyone is talking about high costs, but no one is talking about the dangers, or the number of fuel trucks that have been blown up," Mr. Faletti said. "That's the reason it is so expensive." He said recent government audits had found no improprieties in the Halliburton contract. Gasoline imports are one of the largest costs of Iraqi reconstruction efforts so far. Although Iraq sits on the third-largest oil reserves in the world, production has been hampered by pipeline sabotage, power failures and an antiquated infrastructure that was hurt by 11 years of United Nations sanctions. Nearly $500 million has already been spent to bring gas, benzene and other fuels into Iraq, according to the corps. And as part of the $87 billion package for Iraq and Afghanistan that President Bush signed last month, $18.6 billion will be spent on reconstruction projects, including $690 million for gasoline and other fuel imports in 2004. From May to late October, Halliburton imported about 61 million gallons of fuel from Kuwait and about 179 million from Turkey, at a total cost of more than $383 million. A company's profits on the transport and sale of gasoline are usually razor-thin, with companies losing contracts if they overbid by half a penny a gallon. Independent experts who reviewed Halliburton's percentage of its gas importation contract said the company's 26-cent charge per gallon of gas from Kuwait appeared to be extremely high. "I have never seen anything like this in my life," said Phil Verleger, a California oil economist and the president of the consulting firm PK Verleger LLC. "That's a monopoly premium — that's the only term to describe it. Every logistical firm or oil subsidiary in the United States and Europe would salivate to have that sort of contract." In March, Halliburton was awarded a no-competition contract to repair Iraq's oil industry, and it has already received more than $1.4 billion in work. That award has been the focus of Congressional scrutiny in part because Vice President Dick Cheney is Halliburton's former chief executive officer. As part of its contract, Halliburton began importing fuel in the spring when gasoline was in short supply in large Iraqi cities. The government's accounting shows that Halliburton paid its Kuwait subcontractor $1.17 a gallon, when it was selling for 71 cents a gallon wholesale in the Middle East. In addition, Halliburton is paying $1.21 a gallon to transport the fuel an estimated 400 miles from Kuwait to Iraq, the documents show. It is paying 22 cents a gallon to transport gas into Iraq from Turkey. The 26 cents a gallon it keeps includes a 2-cent fee and 24 cents for "mark-up costs," the documents show. The mark-up portion is intended to cover the overhead for administering the contract. Ms. Hall of Halliburton said it was "misleading" for the corps to call it a mark-up. "This simply means overhead costs, which includes the general and administrative costs like light bulbs, paper and employees," she said. "These costs are specifically allowable under the contract with the Corps of Engineers, are defined by detailed regulations, and are scrutinized and approved by U.S. government auditors." In recent weeks, the costs of importing fuel from Kuwait have risen. Figures provided recently to Congressional investigators by the corps show that Halliburton was charging as much as $3.06 per gallon for fuel from Kuwait in late November. If the corps concludes that Halliburton has successfully administered the gas contract, it could be paid an additional 5 percent of the total value of the gas it imported. Halliburton's Kuwait subcontractor was hired in May. Halliburton and the Army Corps of Engineers refused to identify the company, citing security reasons. Aides to Representative Henry A. Waxman, the California Democrat who has been a critic of the fuel contract, said government officials had identified it as the Altanmia Commercial Marketing Company. Several independent petroleum experts in the Middle East and the United States said they had not heard of Altanmia. Copies of the Army Corps documents were given to Mr. Waxman's office, which provided them to The Times. Iraqi's state oil company, SOMO, pays 96 cents a gallon to bring in gas, which includes the cost of gasoline and transportation costs, the aides to Mr. Waxman said. The gasoline transported by SOMO — and by Halliburton's subcontractor — are delivered to the same depots in Iraq and often use the same military escorts. The Pentagon's Defense Energy Support Center pays $1.08 to $1.19 per gallon for the gas it imports from Kuwait, Congressional aides said. That includes the price of the gas and its transportation costs. The money for Halliburton's gas contract has come principally from the United Nations oil-for-food program, though some of the costs have been borne by American taxpayers. In the appropriations bill signed by Mr. Bush last month, taxpayers will subsidize all gas importation costs beginning early next year. In an interview on Tuesday, Mr. Waxman responded to the latest information on to costs of the Halliburton contract. "It's inexcusable that Americans are being charged absurdly high prices to buy gasoline for Iraqis and outrageous that the White House is letting it happen," he said.
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#140
12-10-2003, 01:12 PM
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I can't believe I engaged in a political discussion over a picture of a man holding a turkey.  Rob
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." - Winston Churchill "The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? " "(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me." - Dennis Miller
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#141
12-10-2003, 01:13 PM
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Let's Talk Turkey!
http://www.michaelmoore.com/
Turkeys on the Moon... from Michael Moore Monday, December 8th, 2003 Dear Mr. Bush, Well, it's going on two weeks now since your surprise visit to one of the two countries you now run and, I have to say, I'm still warmed by the gesture. Man, take me along next time! I understand only 13 members of the media went with you -- and it turns out only ONE of them was an actual reporter for a newspaper. But you did take along FIVE photographers (hey, I get it, screw the words, it's all about the pictures!), a couple wire service guys, and a crew from the Fox News Channel (fair and balanced!). Then, I read in the paper this weekend that that big turkey you were holding in Baghdad (you know, the picture that's supposed to replace the now-embarrassing footage of you on that aircraft carrier with the sign "Mission Accomplished") -- well, it turns out that big, beautiful turkey of yours was never eaten by the troops! It wasn't eaten by anyone! That's because it wasn't real! It was a STUNT turkey, brought in to look like a real edible turkey for all those great camera angles. Now I know some people will say you are into props (like the one in the lower extremities of your flyboy suit), but hey, I get it, this is theater! So what if it was a bogus turkey? The whole trip was bogus, all staged to look like "news." The fake honey glaze on that bird wasn't much different from the fake honey glaze that covers this war. And the fake stuffing in the fake bird was just the right symbol for our country during these times. America loves fake honey glaze, it loves to be stuffed, and, dammit, YOU knew that -- that's what makes you so in touch with the people you lead!  It was also a good idea that you made the "press" on that trip to Baghdad pull the shades down on the plane. No one in the media entourage complained. They like the shades pulled and they like to be kept in the dark. It's more fun that way. And, when you made them take the batteries out of their cell phones so they wouldn't be able to call anyone, and they dutifully complied -- that was genius! I think if you had told them to put their hands on their heads and touch their noses with their tongues, they would have done that, too! That's how much they like you. You could have played "Simon Says" the whole way over there. It wouldn't have been that much different from "Karl Says," a game they LOVE to play every day with Mr. Rove. Well, if you're planning any surprises for Christmas, don't forget to include me. When I heard last week that you wanted to send a man back to the moon, I thought, get the fake goose ready -- that's where ol' George is going for the holidays! I don't blame you, what with nearly 3 million jobs disappeared, and a $281 billion surplus disappeared, and the USA stuck in a war that will never end -- who wouldn't want to go to the moon! This time, take ALL the media with you! Embed them on the moon! They'll love it there! It looks just like Crawford! You can golf on the moon, too. You'll have so much fun up there, you might not want to come back. Better take Cheney with you, too. Pretend it's a medical experiment or something. "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for every American who's sick and tired of all this crap." Yours, Michael Moore [email protected] Last edited by gldstwmn; 12-10-2003 at 01:16 PM..
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#142
12-10-2003, 01:27 PM
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*sighs*
I knew the "far left" would slam Bush for the visit, just as the "far right" slammed Hillary for her visit to Afganistan. I think that as the Commander in Chief, he has the right if not the obligation to visit the troops. While I disagreed with the "Mission Accomplished" trip because I thought it was pandering, I did not feel this Iraqi visit was such. Morale there is low. His visit helped that. So, I do not begrudge him the trip. But, I know many will and that is their right even though I think they are incorrect. I know if my child was there, I would be happy the President (any President) went. But that is just me
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 save the cheerleader - save the world
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#143
12-10-2003, 01:30 PM
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#144
12-10-2003, 01:35 PM
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To the original topic on this thread
This is interesting.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html Nixon on Reagan: Not 'pleasant to be around' National Archive releases new Nixon White House tapes Wednesday, December 10, 2003 Posted: 12:50 PM EST (1750 GMT) COLLEGE PARK, Maryland (AP) -- President Nixon didn't think much of fellow Californian and Republican icon Ronald Reagan, calling him "strange" and not "pleasant to be around," newly released White House tapes show. Talking politics with White House Chief of Staff H.R. Haldeman at Camp David in August 1972, Nixon switched the conversation to two Republican governors, Reagan of California and Nelson Rockefeller of New York. Both men unsuccessfully sought the 1968 Republican presidential nomination that Nixon received. "Reagan is not one that wears well," Nixon said. "I know," Haldeman agreed. "On a personal basis, Rockefeller is a pretty nice guy," Nixon said. "Reagan on a personal basis, is terrible. He just isn't pleasant to be around." "No, he isn't," Haldeman said. "Maybe he's different with others," Nixon said. "No," Haldeman said. "No, he's just an uncomfortable man to be around," Nixon said, "strange." The conversations are part of the 240 hours of White House tape recordings from the Nixon administration released Wednesday by the National Archives. Covering the period July through October 1972, the tapes are the 10th batch of Nixon recordings, totaling 2,109 hours, that the Archives has released since 1980. In all, there are about 3,700 hours of Nixon White House tapes. Nixon installed a secret taping system in the White House. Some of those tapes later showed a White House cover-up in connection with the 1972 break-in at Democratic National Committee headquarters in the Watergate office building. The release of those tapes, which Nixon fought all the way to the Supreme Court, eventually led to his resignation in 1974 rather than face almost-certain impeachment and conviction. The popular Reagan later served two terms as president. But like Nixon, Reagan had a scandal of his own, involving trading arms to Iran for hostages and illegally aiding anti-government forces in Nicaragua. In 1980, Nixon told Parade magazine that he had several good talks with Reagan. "I think he values my foreign policy advice," the magazine quoted Nixon as saying. "I will be available for any assistance or advice." Nixon's advice Reagan had corresponded with Nixon for years. When Reagan was elected president, he sought Nixon's advice. The disgraced former president offered some suggestions for Cabinet posts and a strategy for Reagan's first few months in office, urging him not to travel abroad for the first six months of his administration so he could concentrate on the economy rather than foreign policy. Nixon also pushed for his former chief of staff, Gen. Alexander Haig Jr., as Reagan's secretary of state. Later, Nixon said Reagan's economic policies were unduly harsh and cautioned against giving him too much credit for winning the Cold War. "Communism would have collapsed anyway," he told Monica Crowley, a Nixon aide in his last years, according to her 1996 book, "Nixon Off the Record."
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#145
12-10-2003, 01:38 PM
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- Nancy 
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#146
12-10-2003, 01:40 PM
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Re: new twist on the original topic
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Any new Nancy fans in the house? lol
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- Nancy
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#147
12-10-2003, 01:41 PM
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Re: Let's Talk Turkey!
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Fabulous letter! Gawd, I love Michael Moore. I'm dying for his new doc!!
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#148
12-10-2003, 01:41 PM
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Re: Re: new twist on the original topic
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#149
12-10-2003, 01:43 PM
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Re: To the original topic on this thread
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 But what about the timing?! The man is on his death bed, he doesn't need to be called STRANGE!!!
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#150
12-10-2003, 01:46 PM
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gldstwmn - LOL - I thought of you when I read that article this morning. I think it is a perfect example of slant and spin. I think we need to see Halliburton's cost analysis sheets, their profit to cost ratios, their risk assessment to delivery ratios, their analysis of why if is cheaper in all areas concerned for them to buy more expensive gas in the south than in the north and ship it to the south. Are they restricted from travelling through the highly combative Sunni triangle with highly explosive gasoline? Did the military ask them to do it this way? I think we need to know these things before an accurate judgement can me made. Yet, the NY Times, which BTW I love
, somehow seems to neglect that info and focuses instead on the numbers which on their face are inciting. Moreover, does anyone expect Halliburton or anyone else to do it for free and does anyone really think that had there been open bidding it would have had any meaningful winner for about a year (it is the govt.) or that the winner would not be doing the same thing as Halliburton? Food for Thought before Halliburton gets slammed.
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save the cheerleader - save the world
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