Lindsey was fired. RIP Fleetwood Mac.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

A million threads, which one to pick.
So I'll just say it here.

I don't know how anyone that calls
themselves a Fleetwood Mac fan can
go and see them on this upcoming tour.

They're are not the Green, Buckingham
Nicks version of the band. Not even the
very much inferior band that put out BTM
and Time.

Just a bunch of rich old wrinkled up has-beens.
And with those ticket prices I figure they must
be charging by the wrinkle.

Well, even if Lindsey was there they still would have been 'rich, old wrinkled up folks', as you put it.

[BlanketMan]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

A million threads, which one to pick.
So I'll just say it here.

I don't know how anyone that calls
themselves a Fleetwood Mac fan can
go and see them on this upcoming tour.

They're are not the Green, Buckingham
Nicks version of the band. Not even the
very much inferior band that put out BTM
and Time.

Just a bunch of rich old wrinkled up has-beens.
And with those ticket prices I figure they must
be charging by the wrinkle.

So what is a long-time major Fleetwood Mac fan to do if he's also a HUGE Neil Finn fan, and a pretty big Mike Campbell fan? As much as I hate seeing Lindsay gone, they went and picked the ONE GUY (Finn) that I think I'd be most intrigued by.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

A f*cking Men. Buck Vie is the BEST FM album since Mirage. I love it, and always will. Catchy AF. I've listened to it 3 times this week(after wearing it out, when it came out!).

Even if old Christine didn't have the balls to stand up for him, after this f*cking fiasco!

Agreed. I would take it one step further and say it’s the best since Tusk. Carnival Begin May be my new favorite Fleetwood Mac song of time. And yes I always call it a Fleetwood Mac album. Stevie being involved could not have enhanced that album, it’s the perfect length.

But yes, stevie getting her way just makes all of that irrelevant. That makes perfect sense.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

A million threads, which one to pick.
So I'll just say it here.

I don't know how anyone that calls
themselves a Fleetwood Mac fan can
go and see them on this upcoming tour.

They're are not the Green, Buckingham
Nicks version of the band. Not even the
very much inferior band that put out BTM
and Time.

Just a bunch of rich old wrinkled up has-beens.
And with those ticket prices I figure they must
be charging by the wrinkle.

I heard that Rusty and Alex are both going? Are they no longer true fans.

[jbrownsjr]

Let's not get crazy.

B/N is an incredible album. It's a beautiful representation of what they were.

And I say this after listening to $tevie screech and bellow through Crash Into Me.. Omg that was painful.

[bombaysaffires]

Ok, bear with me....swords down, everyone. Going by what the players have said in interviews, and what people like Rick Turner have said on the record (no a friend of a friend of a friend whispering on the internet).

The scenario it paints is one where LB tries in vain to coordinate the doing his solo shows between the Mac shows and the band fighting him on it, to the point where he finally says fine, then move the tour out several months so I can get some shows in this summer. And even how that progresses to, let's say, him giving them an ultimatum of "Fine, then I won't tour at all if you don't" thinking they won't want to mess up a lucrative farewell tour and will capitulate.

Stevie says she'll tour now, as planned, but she's got other things set for after the tour and she's not going to change those, so the band can tour with her in 2018 and not LB, or they can wait and tour with LB in 2019 but she won't be there. Mick checks with the promoters, as we've been told he did, and asks which tour they'd prefer, and the overwhelming answer is the tour with Stevie. Mick must at some point convey this to Lindsey......and then what? LB says, fine, go ahead... If all you care about is money etc etc and they have the same old argument again about art vs commerce, what I've given to this band, she blew us off for years, etc? At some point Stevie says I'm not dealing with this anymore, it's him or me?

I mean the plot seems plausible, but even this way the timing still seems off. Even when you try to make a scenario like above that doesn't start with 'this was all a Stevie plot from the beginning" the timing still is weird.

Whatever happened must have been brewing for some time before Musicares. And then the trigger must have gotten pulled super fast after that night, because in barely a week they had Mike onboard. Well....it was about a week (6 days) until MICK called Mike... I just cannot believe that Stevie wouldn't have tested him out about it beforehand, but

And when did all these conversations between Stevie and Mick happen, that they then, by their own words in the interviews (or by Mick's words really) had to go and persuade John to go along with?

It all points to the night of Musicares being the night Stevie and Mick started planning things, so the touring stuff had to have been going on for some time prior to that.
Coz people flew out of NYC the day after the show (Saturday) and on Thursday Mick called Mike. Mick and Stevie had to have been discussing (some would say plotting, take your pick)immediately after the Musicares show. If it took a couple days or so to contact John, and convince him, their decision had to have been made by Monday latest. That's freaking fast. So someone had to have been thinking about this for a long time already, and have thought through the options well before this.

What I'd love to know is, when did they tell Lindsey they had invited Mike to join? When did they tell him he was out?? All we know is Mike was in Feb 1 and Neil was contacted 2 weeks before first meeting in Hawaii on March 21, so he was called around Mar 7. Would they have said to Lindsey, we've brought in Mike so Stevie has a pal and you can still join? Seems highly unlikely and you know he would never say yes to that, and they would know that, so inviting Mike was the official kiss of death. And again, barely one week after whatever happened at Musicares. Yet, both Lindsey and Christine seem to indicate that they both left Musicares assuming they would be touring with Lindsey. Actually, Chris says exactly that on the RS recording. (It was Mick who tries to blur the lines and says, when she says yes, they planned to tour with LB, "well, we didn't know if we HAD a tour because he wouldn't commit".....contradicting her).

I have not heard anything about exactly when Christine was told, nor when they dropped the axe on Lindsey. But the decision had to have been made by the key players (yes, some say instigators) Mick and Stevie within a day or so after Musicares. And if so then did they just come up with the plan that fast, or had someone already thought it through and then when the moment presented itself, took the opportunity to execute the plan? To me it seems like the latter.

[Hawkeye]

I think the BuckinhamNicks album is incredibly overrated actually. For being so young still, crying on the night is an awful vocal/song (still glad she played it on her last tour)

The only great songs to me are Long Distance Winner crystal and Frozen Love (and even that song is overrated to me.) LDW is on stevies box set and Crystal while good on BN was made 10 times better on the 75 album.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Let's not get crazy.

B/N is an incredible album. It's a beautiful representation of what they were.

Totally agree. Stephanie is my favorite off of it. Just one of the prettiest little pieces of music I've ever heard.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

Totally agree. Stephanie is my favorite off of it. Just one of the prettiest little pieces of music I've ever heard.

The only tune I don't care for is Crystal. And I love the FM version. I think the keyboards and John's walking baseline give me goosebumps.

[button-lip]

I bet Mick didn't count on Chris telling on CBS they were planning on touring with Lindsey...

If they're gonna lie in order to throw Lindsey under the bus, they need to rehearse more. Or maybe Chris wants the truth out.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Agreed. I would take it one step further and say it’s the best since Tusk. Carnival Begin May be my new favorite Fleetwood Mac song of time. And yes I always call it a Fleetwood Mac album. Stevie being involved could not have enhanced that album, it’s the perfect length.

But yes, stevie getting her way just makes all of that irrelevant. That makes perfect sense.

Oh, yes, we agree she got her way....

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I think the BuckinhamNicks album is incredibly overrated actually. For being so young still, crying on the night is an awful vocal/song (still glad she played it on her last tour)

The only great songs to me are Long Distance Winner crystal and Frozen Love (and even that song is overrated to me.) LDW is on stevies box set and Crystal while good on BN was made 10 times better on the 75 album.

Agree with pretty much all of your assessment, but I also love Races Are Run, too.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Ok, bear with me....swords down, everyone. Going by what the players have said in interviews, and what people like Rick Turner have said on the record (no a friend of a friend of a friend whispering on the internet).

The scenario it paints is one where LB tries in vain to coordinate the doing his solo shows between the Mac shows and the band fighting him on it, to the point where he finally says fine, then move the tour out several months so I can get some shows in this summer. And even how that progresses to, let's say, him giving them an ultimatum of "Fine, then I won't tour at all if you don't" thinking they won't want to mess up a lucrative farewell tour and will capitulate.

Stevie says she'll tour now, as planned, but she's got other things set for after the tour and she's not going to change those, so the band can tour with her in 2018 and not LB, or they can wait and tour with LB in 2019 but she won't be there. Mick checks with the promoters, as we've been told he did, and asks which tour they'd prefer, and the overwhelming answer is the tour with Stevie. Mick must at some point convey this to Lindsey......and then what? LB says, fine, go ahead... If all you care about is money etc etc and they have the same old argument again about art vs commerce, what I've given to this band, she blew us off for years, etc? At some point Stevie says I'm not dealing with this anymore, it's him or me?

I mean the plot seems plausible, but even this way the timing still seems off. Even when you try to make a scenario like above that doesn't start with 'this was all a Stevie plot from the beginning" the timing still is weird.

Whatever happened must have been brewing for some time before Musicares. And then the trigger must have gotten pulled super fast after that night, because in barely a week they had Mike onboard. Well....it was about a week (6 days) until MICK called Mike... I just cannot believe that Stevie wouldn't have tested him out about it beforehand, but

And when did all these conversations between Stevie and Mick happen, that they then, by their own words in the interviews (or by Mick's words really) had to go and persuade John to go along with?

It all points to the night of Musicares being the night Stevie and Mick started planning things, so the touring stuff had to have been going on for some time prior to that.
Coz people flew out of NYC the day after the show (Saturday) and on Thursday Mick called Mike. Mick and Stevie had to have been discussing (some would say plotting, take your pick)immediately after the Musicares show. If it took a couple days or so to contact John, and convince him, their decision had to have been made by Monday latest. That's freaking fast. So someone had to have been thinking about this for a long time already, and have thought through the options well before this.

What I'd love to know is, when did they tell Lindsey they had invited Mike to join? When did they tell him he was out?? All we know is Mike was in Feb 1 and Neil was contacted 2 weeks before first meeting in Hawaii on March 21, so he was called around Mar 7. Would they have said to Lindsey, we've brought in Mike so Stevie has a pal and you can still join? Seems highly unlikely and you know he would never say yes to that, and they would know that, so inviting Mike was the official kiss of death. And again, barely one week after whatever happened at Musicares. Yet, both Lindsey and Christine seem to indicate that they both left Musicares assuming they would be touring with Lindsey. Actually, Chris says exactly that on the RS recording. (It was Mick who tries to blur the lines and says, when she says yes, they planned to tour with LB, "well, we didn't know if we HAD a tour because he wouldn't commit".....contradicting her).

I have not heard anything about exactly when Christine was told, nor when they dropped the axe on Lindsey. But the decision had to have been made by the key players (yes, some say instigators) Mick and Stevie within a day or so after Musicares. And if so then did they just come up with the plan that fast, or had someone already thought it through and then when the moment presented itself, took the opportunity to execute the plan? To me it seems like the latter.

I’ve said a lot of this before, but …

I really don’t have enough information to have a credible opinion. What I do know is that Lindsey badmouthed a show promoters, including his manager, one of the most powerful men in the business, were trying to sell and was completely cold towards Stevie during those shows, to the point where people noticed. There was simply zero chemistry there. Throw in even the suggestion of a concurrent tour, or worse a slightly delayed tour (if that’s to be believed), and it’s easy to see how he was playing with fire.

That’s why I want to know if Azoff dropped Lindsey before or after the band fired him. He may have become a financial liability. While the rumored blowout between LB-SN might have been especially bad, it probably wouldn’t have led to a firing under different circumstances. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there were industry pressures that factored into the decision.

As for Christine, they either went behind her back because they knew what she’d say OR they were trying to protect her from having to make a vote. But it’s completely unreasonable to expect her to have more loyalty to Lindsey than Mick and John. She and Lindsey were and may again be creative partners, but Mick and John are like family to her. To put it a different way, she sent demos to Lindsey, but got on the plane with Mick. All that said, she is clearly not happy about how it happened, isn’t going to hide it, and isn’t going to throw Lindsey under the bus in the press.

In terms of timeline, getting Mike was an obvious choice. Just listen to Stevie’s speech that night. Tom has clearly been on her mind nonstop, so I could easily see “I can’t work with him anymore, let’s get Mike” being immediate and instinctive for Stevie. I doubt there was a lot of conspiring about getting him.

But, again, there’s just not enough information to go on.

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I’ve said a lot of this before, but …

I really don’t have enough information to have a credible opinion. What I do know is that Lindsey badmouthed a show promoters, including his manager, one of the most powerful men in the business, were trying to sell and was completely cold towards Stevie during those shows, to the point where people noticed. There was simply zero chemistry there. Throw in even the suggestion of a concurrent tour, or worse a slightly delayed tour (if that’s to be believed), and it’s easy to see how he was playing with fire.

That’s why I want to know if Azoff dropped Lindsey before or after the band fired him. He may have become a financial liability. While the rumored blowout between LB-SN might have been especially bad, it probably wouldn’t have led to a firing under different circumstances. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there were industry pressures that factored into the decision.

As for Christine, they either went behind her back because they knew what she’d say OR they were trying to protect her from having to make a vote. But it’s completely unreasonable to expect her to have more loyalty to Lindsey than Mick and John. She and Lindsey were and may again be creative partners, but Mick and John are like family to her. To put it a different way, she sent demos to Lindsey, but got on the plane with Mick. All that said, she is clearly not happy about how it happened, isn’t going to hide it, and isn’t going to throw Lindsey under the bus in the press.

In terms of timeline, getting Mike was an obvious choice. Just listen to Stevie’s speech that night. Tom has clearly been on her mind nonstop, so I could easily see “I can’t work with him anymore, let’s get Mike” being immediate and instinctive for Stevie. I doubt there was a lot of conspiring about getting him.

But, again, there’s just not enough information to go on.

I agree with you. I think people concentrate too much on the emotional side of things instead of thinking about all the rational economical connected causes.
Even if Mick and Stevie are evil incarnate we have to remember that Mick is the type that always prefers to use diplomacy, even when his actual ultimate goal is to ensure the profit he would try to find a way to pacify things between everyone before having to resort to drastic solutions.

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I’ve said a lot of this before, but …

I really don’t have enough information to have a credible opinion. What I do know is that Lindsey badmouthed a show promoters, including his manager, one of the most powerful men in the business, were trying to sell and was completely cold towards Stevie during those shows, to the point where people noticed. There was simply zero chemistry there. Throw in even the suggestion of a concurrent tour, or worse a slightly delayed tour (if that’s to be believed), and it’s easy to see how he was playing with fire.

That’s why I want to know if Azoff dropped Lindsey before or after the band fired him. He may have become a financial liability. While the rumored blowout between LB-SN might have been especially bad, it probably wouldn’t have led to a firing under different circumstances. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there were industry pressures that factored into the decision.

As for Christine, they either went behind her back because they knew what she’d say OR they were trying to protect her from having to make a vote. But it’s completely unreasonable to expect her to have more loyalty to Lindsey than Mick and John. She and Lindsey were and may again be creative partners, but Mick and John are like family to her. To put it a different way, she sent demos to Lindsey, but got on the plane with Mick. All that said, she is clearly not happy about how it happened, isn’t going to hide it, and isn’t going to throw Lindsey under the bus in the press.

In terms of timeline, getting Mike was an obvious choice. Just listen to Stevie’s speech that night. Tom has clearly been on her mind nonstop, so I could easily see “I can’t work with him anymore, let’s get Mike” being immediate and instinctive for Stevie. I doubt there was a lot of conspiring about getting him.

But, again, there’s just not enough information to go on.

Thank you for this! Some great, reasoned, sensible thinking going on there