Mirage live... thoughts?

[Wdm6789]

I said Guiro

[BombaySapphire3]

I attended one of the two Forum shows that were taped and it was great .My favorite Fleetwood Mac show ever was the Tusk tour in Dec of '79..their performance peak IMHO.

[jbrownsjr]

It sounds like a clavi... added in post production. I like the sound of it..

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

That was Ray Lindsey who toured with the Mac a few times (1979-1982). He is spotted on camera during Go Your Own Way (acoustic).

You can also catch a glimpse of him playing on Gypsy.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

You can also catch a glimpse of him playing on Gypsy.

You are correct!
Speaking of Gypsy.......I love the live Mirage version. It has a country feel to the song. The song has an intense bridge vocally and Stevie nails it. Gypsy live has NEVER been the same again. The 1982 live version has passion and Gypsy needs passion. I love the back up singing by Christine and Lindsey too.
I've said this before but the Mirage tour was an end of an era for the band. They would not record with each other for half a decade and not all 5 tour together again for 15 years. So much had changed and the chemistry and some of passion were gone.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I've said this before but the Mirage tour was an end of an era for the band.

I agree 100%! It truly was the end. Other than Richard occasionally adding rhythm acoustic guitar, there were no backup singers...no FM dorkhestra.

They all still had singing range, and even appearance wise, they were ALL at the top of their game!

Now why nobody will release this DVD officially boggles my mind. I mean, I have my own DVD copy of it, but I WANT ALL THE OUTTAKES, TOO!!!

[David]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

It sounds like a clavi... added in post production. I like the sound of it..

Yeah, it sounds like a clavinet patch on something else (not an actual Hohner). Chris was playing an electronic piano by Yamaha, and that instrument has a clav patch on it (a very fake one). She or someone else undoubtedly added the clav line in post-production. She definitely wasn't generating it during the concerts.

To me, this concert video was shoddy. It was grainy in some frames and saturated in others, and the audio had massive gain and no separation. It was like listening to a rock concert the night after another rock concert, when your ears were already ringing. Part of the problem might be the Forum arena, where sound used to bounce around off the walls. But other bands have released better live albums recorded there, so Fleetwood's problem was that the whole thing was a rush job and sloppily done. Why did they shoot video instead of film? Why the rotten camera work? (Look at the shot of Stevie in The Chain playing her tambourine, blocking the entire view with her hair and cape.) Why the rotten editing, with visuals not matched up with audio? The whole thing is really very junky and very embarrassing for a billion-dollar rock band that used to pride itself on craftsmanship and care. I think the members couldn't possibly have given a **** about the Home Box Office video. That tour was short and troubled, so they probably all wanted to go home.

I had hoped that the Mirage reissue would feature some beautiful 1982 concert audio from throughout the tour, much like the Tusk reissue had. When you guys first posted the announcement and I saw that it was the HBO audio, I bought an oil diffuser on Amazon instead to alleviate my anxiety.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by David

Yeah, it sounds like a clavinet patch on something else (not an actual Hohner). Chris was playing an electronic piano by Yamaha, and that instrument has a clav patch on it (a very fake one). She or someone else undoubtedly added the clav line in post-production. She definitely wasn't generating it during the concerts.

To me, this concert video was shoddy. It was grainy in some frames and saturated in others, and the audio had massive gain and no separation. It was like listening to a rock concert the night after another rock concert, when your ears were already ringing. Part of the problem might be the Forum arena, where sound used to bounce around off the walls. But other bands have released better live albums recorded there, so Fleetwood's problem was that the whole thing was a rush job and sloppily done. Why did they shoot video instead of film? Why the rotten camera work? (Look at the shot of Stevie in The Chain playing her tambourine, blocking the entire view with her hair and cape.) Why the rotten editing, with visuals not matched up with audio? The whole thing is really very junky and very embarrassing for a billion-dollar rock band that used to pride itself on craftsmanship and care. I think the members couldn't possibly have given a **** about the Home Box Office video. That tour was short and troubled, so they probably all wanted to go home.

I had hoped that the Mirage reissue would feature some beautiful 1982 concert audio from throughout the tour, much like the Tusk reissue had. When you guys first posted the announcement and I saw that it was the HBO audio, I bought an oil diffuser on Amazon instead to alleviate my anxiety.

Part of your criticism is why I love it so much. Its REAL. Just like any concert or concert seats, it has some warts or flaws. I HATE the way concerts were filmed shortly after this era with a wire camera flying all over the stage and each member plays to the camera. Or even worse, the Rock A Little or Tango concerts are like nails down a chalk board. Its fake lip syncing when everyone gets dolled up and sings to the camera.
I love the fact a guy had a camera on his shoulder filming the concert. The shot may not be steady but its real. I love the shot during the chain when Stevie is in focus singing then Stevie goes out of focus and Christine is in focus but the camera does not move. AMAZING. That is like being at the concert with your binoculars focusing in and out. There are even parts of the concert where you actually see a camera guy on stage. So freaking cool!
I LOVE all of it because its real.

[bwboy]

Unfortunately, Stevie does play up to the camera in this concert, and it is incredibly distracting. When she follows Lindsey during Eyes of the World so she can be in every camera shot, it's clear she's performing for the camera, not the audience.

I loved hearing the feedback. This was the first concert video I had ever seen, so hearing some of my favorite songs 'live' for the first time, well I was unprepared and thought initially the band was giving a bad performance. When I got older, I realized concerts sound different than recorded music, and I came to appreciate those differences. But in this video, even though I agree they all look great, spectacular even, I don't know, they also look weary or tired... or like they don't want to be there. You can see the joy in their performance in the Dance, Tango, and Boston video concerts, but I don't see that joy in this performance.

Having said that, I still wish the entire concert would be released. Brown Eyes, Hold Me, Second Hand News... would love to see those songs here.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by bwboy

Unfortunately, Stevie does play up to the camera in this concert, and it is incredibly distracting. When she follows Lindsey during Eyes of the World so she can be in every camera shot, it's clear she's performing for the camera, not the audience.

I loved hearing the feedback. This was the first concert video I had ever seen, so hearing some of my favorite songs 'live' for the first time, well I was unprepared and thought initially the band was giving a bad performance. When I got older, I realized concerts sound different than recorded music, and I came to appreciate those differences. But in this video, even though I agree they all look great, spectacular even, I don't know, they also look weary or tired... or like they don't want to be there. You can see the joy in their performance in the Dance, Tango, and Boston video concerts, but I don't see that joy in this performance.

Having said that, I still wish the entire concert would be released. Brown Eyes, Hold Me, Second Hand News... would love to see those songs here.

The Tango concert was lip synced. They lip synced to the live track like Stevie did for Red Rocks. So I think you are mistaken in taking the video "look" as joy. It was dressing up and playing for the camera, not a concert. Its a video and not a real concert.
IMHO the Dance concert video is boring. The excitement was they were back together but poor Christine never cracked a smile and obviously could not wait to get off the road.

Back to Mirage and rewind time. Drugs were abused and Stevie just came off a successful solo album and tour. Her best friend Robin was dying and each night on the Mirage tour had more and more drama. IMHO, this is what made the concert so good. You can sense the tension between the members. I love that and I miss that. A good article to read during this time is the 1982 Rolling Stone article "Fleetwood Mac, Happy At The Top." Rolling Stone claimed that on the advice of her manager Stevie was not take part with the group and not speak to the magazine. There was tension. There was jealousy and you could slice it with a knife. I LOVE me some Mirage tour. During this short tour, Stevie's solo work was still charting, Stevie's best friend died and the tour continued, a few shows got cancelled or postponed because Stevie had walking pneumonia, Christine had her own record scheduled, Lindsey wanted off the road, and Mick out of control. THIS is what made Fleetwood Mac live so good. It was dysfunction. It was madness but most of all it was incredible emotion and the best music. It just cant compare the fakeness of the Tango concert or the dullness of the Dance compared to these shows.

I would bet those under 30 are so used to the fakeness of live shows being produced like a music video view actual concert footage as bad or boring. I am over 40 and remember when concerts on TV were filmed the way you saw them without special lighting, floating cameras, lip syncing, and fancy other stuff.

[bwboy]

The notorious Stevie close-ups are what you're referring to, I believe, which she did for Rock a Little and Tango. Yes, very very annoying and distracting. It's only the close-ups of Stevie that were refilmed, so it's easy to spot. The entire concert wasn't refilled and lip synced, obviously. Musically, I think FM sound great on the Tango concert.

I was horrified the first time I saw Rock a Little. And I hated when Tango showed bizarre behind the scenes footage during Everywhere and that long drum solo by Mick, when they could have shown 2 more songs instead. And of course, the Stevie close-ups, though thankfully not nearly as prevalent as in her solo concert.

I'm actually watching Mirage now, and it is weird how the audio doesn't always match the video. Love in Store shows Christine not singing while we can hear her singing, clearly bad editing that happens throughout.

I think Christine was happy doing the Dance special, but during press for the special, she and Stevie both spoke about how nervous they all were, with Stevie flubbing the lyrics to Dreams TWICE before being able to sing it all the way through a third time. Christine certainly wasn't tired from being on the road- they filmed the special and only went on the road months later after it got such positive response!

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by bwboy

The notorious Stevie close-ups are what you're referring to, I believe, which she did for Rock a Little and Tango. Yes, very very annoying and distracting. It's only the close-ups of Stevie that were refilmed, so it's easy to spot. The entire concert wasn't refilled and lip synced, obviously. Musically, I think FM sound great on the Tango concert.

I was horrified the first time I saw Rock a Little. And I hated when Tango showed bizarre behind the scenes footage during Everywhere and that long drum solo by Mick, when they could have shown 2 more songs instead. And of course, the Stevie close-ups, though thankfully not nearly as prevalent as in her solo concert.

I'm actually watching Mirage now, and it is weird how the audio doesn't always match the video. Love in Store shows Christine not singing while we can hear her singing, clearly bad editing that happens throughout.

I think Christine was happy doing the Dance special, but during press for the special, she and Stevie both spoke about how nervous they all were, with Stevie flubbing the lyrics to Dreams TWICE before being able to sing it all the way through a third time. Christine certainly wasn't tired from being on the road- they filmed the special and only went on the road months later after it got such positive response!

I think you are watching a bootleg of the concert. I know what you are referring to. There is some segments on youtube where the music does not match the video.
That is not the concert LOL that was on HBO or VHS version of course.

Call me old school but I like to see a concert on TV just like how I would see it live
I like how you rationalize "only the close ups were re-shot and lip synced"
The close ups are when someone is singing LOL which is a lot of lip syncing. Another reason I like Mirage because its a ROCK concert. The dance did not rock. In 1997 technology really expanded and groups could sound more like the studio in a live setting. I still prefer rock concerts where you get rock performances out of studio tracks. I don't want to hear studio sound at a live show. But I think the younger generation has not experienced the big arena rock sound that once existed.

[Wdm6789]

I was really hoping to get the full live set on deluxe Mirage. I really wanted to have a 1982 live Sara on my iTunes. I also want some Stevie solo Sara from 1981 and 1983 on my iTunes. It would have been really awesome if they took different songs from different shows like they did on Tusk deluxe.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I think you are watching a bootleg of the concert. I know what you are referring to. There is some segments on youtube where the music does not match the video.
That is not the concert LOL that was on HBO or VHS version of course.

I like how you rationalize "only the close ups were re-shot and lip synced"
The close ups are when someone is singing LOL which is a lot of lip syncing.

No, I had the official 1983 release on vhs and transferred it to dvd. Not a bootleg, and I have no idea what youtube version you're referring to. And there are a few scenes where the editing is poor.

Only Stevie did close-ups in Tango, though it looks like Rick Vito was a pal and joined her for a few shots. But not every shot of Stevie was refilmed. Or at least, they left some of the original footage in. Certainly, you don't think she was lip syncing in the original, untouched footage? I'm not rationalizing, just making an observation. The entire concert wasn't refilmed with the entire band is what I meant to say.

[Andy Man]

I'm glad that we are at least getting some live tracks from the Mirage tour because, as many of you have already pointed out, this tour was the last "great peak" for the band (creatively, speaking).

However, I was disappointed to discover that the live tracks were going to be merely ripped from the HBO special. The Mirage tour had an outstanding setlist, and many of the greatest Mirage tour tracks were completely ignored for the HBO film. I've always thought that the HBO special was very Lindsey-heavy. And while there is no denying that some of the Mac's greatest live moments are in fact during Buckingham-written tracks, there are some brilliant live performances from Christine and Stevie that should certainly be released. "Sara", "Brown Eyes", "Hold Me" are all songs from this tour that were so excellently delivered. It is also quite something that out of all the re-releases, we still do not have an official live version of "Second Hand News", which was a great setlist opener for the Mirage tour. I was hoping that after we got the great live tracks on the Tusk redux that the archivists for the Mac would go back to all the material they must have from the 1982 tour. However, no such luck.

I doubt we will ever get a full Mirage tour show at this point. I am thankful for getting high quality files of the '82 "Sisters Of The Moon", "Love In Store", "Eyes Of The World" and "The Chain. However, it seems that for the price of this redux a full set from the tour should have been included.