Is "mystical, elusive" etc. an excuse for poor songwriting?

[The Juggler]

I've read a good few articles, that complimented Stevie's lyrics for being extremely mystical, elusive, fairy-like etc. and sometimes I think this whole hippy fairy goddess folk image is really used to describe sub par writing.

Now I'm not saying Stevie is poor exactly, I think it's just since the mid 80s her way of writing has become very formulaic and tried. Some of the lyrics make no sense at all and sound like she just wrote whatever was in her head and recorded that.

I suppose being able to think of these lines and combine them to make a song is a talent as well, but I think a lot of the time these lines aren't great. Lindsey said she takes out a typewriter bashes away tons of lyrics and files them away till she needs them and I can imagine that.

I was listening to Everybody Loves You today and the lyrics are awful. I think if that was written in the 70s she may have gotten away with it but now it just sounds awful. A lot of artists seem to lose their talent after a point. Has this happened to Stevie, I think so.

(And before you say "why don't you write something better then" I do write.

[DauphineMarie]

Originally Posted by The Juggler

I've read a good few articles, that complimented Stevie's lyrics for being extremely mystical, elusive, fairy-like etc. and sometimes I think this whole hippy fairy goddess folk image is really used to describe sub par writing.

Now I'm not saying Stevie is poor exactly, I think it's just since the mid 80s her way of writing has become very formulaic and tried. Some of the lyrics make no sense at all and sound like she just wrote whatever was in her head and recorded that.

I suppose being able to think of these lines and combine them to make a song is a talent as well, but I think a lot of the time these lines aren't great. Lindsey said she takes out a typewriter bashes away tons of lyrics and files them away till she needs them and I can imagine that.

I was listening to Everybody Loves You today and the lyrics are awful. I think if that was written in the 70s she may have gotten away with it but now it just sounds awful. A lot of artists seem to lose their talent after a point. Has this happened to Stevie, I think so.

(And before you say "why don't you write something better then" I do write.

I think about this sometimes as well, because since the 90's I'd say Stevie has become set in her ways, if you will, like she has nothing to prove anymore considering she's already obtained "legend status".

The way I see it, Stevie still has the ability to write incredible songs. Because as a writer myself, and as you know too, it's not something that just randomly goes away... It's something that is directly influenced by your surroundings and mindset (at least for me). I think that TISL is a far better album writing-wise than IYD, mainly because Stevie had something to prove after Street Angel. I think her more recent songs are more what she likes, what she wants to share, and what she feels is important to her.

She no longer cares for being commercial, and her writing reflects this. She pretty much does what she wants, and everyone lauds her based on the fact that she's Stevie Nicks.

[Machu]

To me, songwriting is much more subjective than just good or poor. I think Stevie's songwriting is more about a feeling than a story. It may not make sense from a linear perspective but you totally understand what she was feeling when she wrote it.

[sorcerer999]

Originally Posted by The Juggler

Some of the lyrics make no sense at all and sound like she just wrote whatever was in her head and recorded that.

Yes! At times I think Stevie can be a very lazy songwriter.
"I like the coastal cities. I like the lights."
"Ooo, it's so romantic. Hey, it's so soulful."
"I wanna dress up. I wanna wear beads. I wanna wear feathers and lace..."

Originally Posted by The Juggler

A lot of artists seem to lose their talent after a point. Has this happened to Stevie, I think so.

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=55051

^^^I posted a thread about this very topic in the Chit Chat section about a year ago. It didn't get a lot of responses but I would agree that there's a "creative window" for some artists, and none for others. I think Stevie falls somewhere right in the middle...but certainly there are times when I feel she's kind of "lost it", creatively.

[lilyfee]

IYD based on lyrics alone sounds very uninspired to me. But if you think about it, that's because it was uninspired. She's still an amazing songwriter... Look at Soldier's Angel on that album, for example. It's haunting and soulful. But she wrote that because she needed to get those feelings out, not in order to fill a quota. When she wrote all those songs with Dave, she was writing songs just to write songs, not out of any intense emotional release or something. Everybody Loves You absolutely kills me because it had such potential as a song, but the verses are cringe-worthy.

I don't think it has to do with her age or exhaustion of her talents or something... I just think there's not the same desperation driving her writing. And since so much of her music in her early years directly related to her life experiences -- heartbreak, longing, dreams, fears, addiction, etc. -- a lot of her recent stuff falls flat in comparison.

I think she could get away with sloppier writing in the 80s as well, just because of the passion and fervor in her voice. Either you couldn't understand what she was saying or it didn't matter because you could feel it.

[BombaySapphire3]

Stevie had about 10 years of great writing in her. 24KG is her best album since the early 1980s ...even the castoffs written during her heyday are superior to most of what has been penned since then. There are a few exceptions.

[bombaysaffires]

I think her songs were better when Lindsey had a more active role as her 'editor'. He imposed a certain order on her songs and tightened them up, even the lyrics. As we saw in the DR doc, he no longer is permitted that role... mostly his own doing, but there you have it.

[Jondalar]

She is a very lazy writer.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

She is a very lazy writer.

I don't think she's a hugely gifted lyricist. I've always said that (and gotten cussed at). But she's this weirdly whole package, where the obtuse lyric with the tone-deaf phrasing combines with the way Stevie looks and the way she sings and her legions of fans and the way other pop stars talk about her and her lineup of men and her way of sounding air-headed and totally fascinating at the same time when she's talking to you, and allah shazam she's a legend. She's our girl.

By the way, I admire the work she put into many of her songs, like "Dreams" and "Crystal" and "Candlebright" and "Storms." These are songs whose lyrics add to Stevie's legacy. "Sister Honey" and "Alice" do not.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by David

But she's this weirdly whole package, where the obtuse lyric with the tone-deaf phrasing combines with the way Stevie looks and the way she sings...

Hey, wait a minute.

Are you telling me that if Stevie looked like um...
oh, I don't know, let's say - Hillary Clinton. That
she wouldn't be our girl?

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Hey, wait a minute.

Are you telling me that if Stevie looked like um...
oh, I don't know, let's say - Hillary Clinton. That
she wouldn't be our girl?

If Stevie looked like Hillary Clinton we would not be having this discussion .

[Macfan4life]

Stevie and Christine are 2 of the best songwriters in music history. They are opposite in styles of writing but each has a knack for writing epic songs. Stevie seems to have lost some of her magic but that's ok most artists do over time. Look at the epic songs Elton John and the Stones wrote in the early 70's. The magic era is hard to keep doing. Christine's lyrics are instant songs. Much of Stevie's stuff is like poetry and its hard to put into commercial songs. But when it works.....its amazing. Just look at Edge of 17. The song is about 3 different experiences merged together. But the song is put together brilliantly and tells a story open to interpretation. And the music goes with it perfectly.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Stevie and Christine are 2 of the best songwriters in music history. They are opposite in styles of writing but each has a knack for writing epic songs. Stevie seems to have lost some of her magic but that's ok most artists do over time. Look at the epic songs Elton John and the Stones wrote in the early 70's. The magic era is hard to keep doing. Christine's lyrics are instant songs. Much of Stevie's stuff is like poetry and its hard to put into commercial songs. But when it works.....its amazing. Just look at Edge of 17. The song is about 3 different experiences merged together. But the song is put together brilliantly and tells a story open to interpretation. And the music goes with it perfectly.

What's the third. I was only aware of 2. Stevie's uncle dying and John Lennon dying.

[olive]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

What's the third. I was only aware of 2. Stevie's uncle dying and John Lennon dying.

?......
Jane Petty telling her she met Tom ,"at the age of seventeen " but with her drawl it sounded like the Edge of Seventeen to her

[Missy]

Nicks seems to be a very 'intuitive' songwriter. Sometimes I think she is more into finding the right mood in a song and she'll go with whatever takes her there. I love her but yes some of her lyrics are downright corny and cheesy. Perhaps nobody else but Stevie could get away with singing some of these lines.

Elton John had an early song called 'Skyline Pigeon' that is actually one of my favorites from him. But I always think that only Elton could get away with a song about a damn pigeon hehe.