Say You Will Mix

David · #1 09-22-2003, 12:41 AM

When I bought "Say You Will" back whenever, I was disappointed in the sound mixing. So I gave it a rest (of about four months). I played it again today, all the way through, & I'm still disappointed in the mix. I told some FM fan friends this evening that I've played that album on about six different players: boom box, two computer CD-ROM drives, a car audio player, etc. No matter where I've played it, it sounds like "The Other Side of the Mirror." I think the mixing job on the album is atrocious. Every track is tinny; there's no low-end foundation that sounds natural & the whole effect is clashy. You can hear the bass pumping away, but it's very artificial & mechanical sounding. The whole album sounds like a club rave on a house sound system where the speakers have partially blown.

I think "Time" is mixed better than this.

All this time, I thought it was a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth, & I blamed Mark Needham & the hired engineers. But now I'm told that Lindsey himself is really responsible for the general sound of the album. Apparently, he really enforced his vision on Needham & the others. Both Needham & Chris Lord-Alge are drummers, & they naturally like a mix that centers on the drums. But LB was very specific with what he wanted from the mixes. He kept pushing Mark to make the drums as small as possible & keep the overall sound tame & unaggressive. Ultimately, they fired Chris after a few tracks, but obviously Mark stuck it out. They paid him a lot of money to do what Lindsey wanted, so he did it.

I long for the days when Lindsey achieved the perfect combination of earthy & ethereal in a mix, as he did on "Law & Order," which is a sonic wonder.

sodascouts · #2 09-22-2003, 12:49 AM

Even I, unschooled in such matters, noticed that the mixing seemed - how shall I put it - "off kilter" in several songs. I love them (overall) anyway, but I wonder what Lindsey was thinking. I believe he prides himself on mixing things to best advantage. Odd that his sensibilities seem to have taken such a strange turn in that area.

LV-Alpha · #3 09-22-2003, 01:57 AM

As far as I know, it isn't the production that technically has a lot to do with how an album sounds across all the different platforms. It is the sound engineer's job to make the record sound great across a wide variety of platforms. Also, if I recall correctly, this is the first time Lindsey ever really did a great deal of engineering so perhaps we are hearing a "learning-Lindsey-in-progress" here in terms of his engineering abilities? Then again, his ears might be a little damaged from 30 years of rock concerts and dare I say it...age! (Most people I know started noticing a change in their hearing around like age 48 or so)

Just my two cents.

Tomara

face of glass · #4 09-22-2003, 08:53 AM

Yeah, I guess this has been discussed before too. It doesn't sound as full as Law And Order and Out Of The Cradle and I think it's simply because Richard Dashut isn't on board for this one. I think Lindsey should have had another pair of ears around a mind as stubborn as his. I don't know about mixing details at all myself, but I'm quite pleased with the sound myself, although I do agree about John not being treated the way he should be. I do remember that he shadowed his bass parts with the "black keys" of a synth (Lindsey's idea?), so that might have something to do with it as well. I do like the crashing drums on some songs though. Sort of a "wall of sound" going on there.

So I am pleased with it myself, especially when compared to TISL. That's the one that sounds artificial. That one had ProTools all the way while this one doesn't. Hallelujah.
And in general, I can get used to the sound of an album if the songs are good.

**mylittledemon** · #5 09-22-2003, 10:19 AM

I may be one of the few people who is actually a CAE here. (Ceritified Audio Engineer). I don't think the album is mixed terribly at all. I think it's mixed strangely in certain areas, and it definitely takes some risks. But...from an engineering standpoint...there are standards that you follow, and then there's the things you do to your taste. That's obviously what Buckingham took the point on with this album. I think it's well done, and I think it breaks away from the norm a bit of what Fleetwood Mac normally puts out there. And I'll say it AGAIN...TIME IS A TERRIBLE ALBUM. I don't know how anyone can sit through it. Ugh.