Mirage & Tango In The Night (Remastered & Expanded)?

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Sorry to be pedantic, but I think it could be argued Billy left and came back too.

Hey Plum, thank you for being pedantic! That fine point escaped my fuzzy memory.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

What if: Instead of hiring Billy and Rick and hitting the road, Mick had instead recognized that Lindsey needed a break, said "No hard feelings. We love you. Take as long as you need." and just cancelled the entire tour?

Hiring Billy and Rick was probably deemed necessary at the time, if only for purely financial reasons; i.e. the tour revenue. I wonder how much further that pushed Lindsey away, by providing a definite finality to the situation that might not have otherwise been there.

That is correct. Mick talks about this in his first book. Lindsey threw it in Mick's face that night that he did not need to tour and the money that Mick needed (meaning Mick was trying to get out of bankruptcy).
However after a successful album and being away for so long, how could you resist not touring even for a small tour.

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Sorry to be pedantic, but I think it could be argued Billy left and came back too.

and to be hyper-pedantic, Peter came back, albeit temporarily, in 1971 when Jeremy left.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

What if: Instead of hiring Billy and Rick and hitting the road, Mick had instead recognized that Lindsey needed a break, said "No hard feelings. We love you. Take as long as you need." and just cancelled the entire tour?

Hiring Billy and Rick was probably deemed necessary at the time, if only for purely financial reasons; i.e. the tour revenue. I wonder how much further that pushed Lindsey away, by providing a definite finality to the situation that might not have otherwise been there.

I like your interesting assumptions! I doubt there was any assurance Lindsey would return to the group; he left on his own terms of self preservation. Mick's main concern has always been to keep the Fleetwood Mac brand alive and fluid, in whatever form. After all, the music industry is a business. For Mick to remain in the business, he needs an active band; bringing Billy and Rick into the ring was just par for course.

When Peter Green departed from the group, it was the first huge blow to them and their fans, since he was the defining leader/main draw of the band. Mick wasn't holding out for Peter's return -- his pattern was to just admirably move on and on, despite the numerous upheavals. He eventually hit pay dirt with the Lindsey and Stevie configuration.

Tango in the Night was a commercial success. From a business prospective, it would have been foolish to not to capitalize on that momentum with a tour. Mick's "on with the show" mentality, not surprisingly, prevailed. It's pretty amazing that after a few more slightly drastic shake ups, the band, in it's most popular and successful configuration, is back intact. Fleetwood Mac, in the entirety of its circuitous history, is peerless; a band like no other.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

What if: Instead of hiring Billy and Rick and hitting the road, Mick had instead recognized that Lindsey needed a break, said "No hard feelings. We love you. Take as long as you need." and just cancelled the entire tour?

Hiring Billy and Rick was probably deemed necessary at the time, if only for purely financial reasons; i.e. the tour revenue. I wonder how much further that pushed Lindsey away, by providing a definite finality to the situation that might not have otherwise been there.

In Mick's book, he mentions how Lindsey left the house after the big fight, but he didn't just drive off. He sat in his car for a long time. Mick thought Lindsey wanted them to come out there after him, but everyone was so mad that no overtures were made. There is a sense that if a little time had passed, the break could not have been avoided, but it might not have been as brutal. Michele

[brucewayne]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I had a question about these. Keep in mind, I don't really know what I'm talking about here lol

So the prior FM remasters sound GRRRREAT in my car. I feel the drums, the bass, everything is crystal clear and nice. How do these HDtracks remasters of Mirage and Tango compare with those previous remasters?

I just don't wanna be disappointed in the quality if I buy these two albums again...

[James Kirk]

Good Day brucewayne,

The quick answer is YES, the HD Tracks versions are superior to the original albums (Mirage more so, Tango already sounded pretty good) and also in my opinion better than the tracks that appeared on the Very Best of Fleetwood Mac (they are not Brickwalled and with clipped high end and loss of Dynamic Range)

Here is a good video that describes Brickwalling and the Loudness Wars that makes so much of what is called remastering rather unappealing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9xX...ature=youtu.be

However and this is a big HOWEVER, it all depends on how you are going to be listening to these HD versions.

If you are listening primarily in your car then unless your car stereo is set up with the ability to play back High Resolution recordings of 192kHz 24 bit (Mirage) or 96kHz 24bit (Tango) then the increase in quality may not be as apparent.

Yes, you do get a remastered version of both albums that is as close to a flat transfer as possible with no clipping, greater dynamic range and in the case of Mirage all songs are of an equal volume level. I found the original CD irritating as I was constantly having to change the volume between tracks.
But the real benefit to the HD Tracks and other High Resolution recordings become much greater when played back on equipment capable of decoding the greater resolution.

I’m sorry I could not give you a definite yes or no to your questions but there are just too many variables.

In my case I am listing to my HD tracks through my portable High Resolution Player The Fiio x5 or through my Oppo system when I want to listen at home and the A/B testing between the original CD and the HDTracks versions is astounding.

At the end of the day the mastering of the HDTracks is wonderful when compared to the original CD’s or especially to that “Remastered” Best of Fleetwood Mac 2 CD set that really is a rather uncomfortable listen for me due to the Brickwalling.

If you have any more questions concerning this issue please feel free to ask. I have been collecting HD recordings for quite a few years now and really enjoy the increase in quality.

[brucewayne]

Originally Posted by James Kirk

Good Day brucewayne,

The quick answer is YES, the HD Tracks versions are superior to the original albums (Mirage more so, Tango already sounded pretty good) and also in my opinion better than the tracks that appeared on the Very Best of Fleetwood Mac (they are not Brickwalled and with clipped high end and loss of Dynamic Range)

Here is a good video that describes Brickwalling and the Loudness Wars that makes so much of what is called remastering rather unappealing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9xX...ature=youtu.be

However and this is a big HOWEVER, it all depends on how you are going to be listening to these HD versions.

If you are listening primarily in your car then unless your car stereo is set up with the ability to play back High Resolution recordings of 192kHz 24 bit (Mirage) or 96kHz 24bit (Tango) then the increase in quality may not be as apparent.

Yes, you do get a remastered version of both albums that is as close to a flat transfer as possible with no clipping, greater dynamic range and in the case of Mirage all songs are of an equal volume level. I found the original CD irritating as I was constantly having to change the volume between tracks.
But the real benefit to the HD Tracks and other High Resolution recordings become much greater when played back on equipment capable of decoding the greater resolution.

I’m sorry I could not give you a definite yes or no to your questions but there are just too many variables.

In my case I am listing to my HD tracks through my portable High Resolution Player The Fiio x5 or through my Oppo system when I want to listen at home and the A/B testing between the original CD and the HDTracks versions is astounding.

At the end of the day the mastering of the HDTracks is wonderful when compared to the original CD’s or especially to that “Remastered” Best of Fleetwood Mac 2 CD set that really is a rather uncomfortable listen for me due to the Brickwalling.

If you have any more questions concerning this issue please feel free to ask. I have been collecting HD recordings for quite a few years now and really enjoy the increase in quality.

Thanks! So being a simpleton with this stuff...

I'll probably just listen to these on my computer and in my car. Or by making mix CDs for when I drive (yes I still do this lol). When putting it next to a track from, say, the recent Tusk reissue...it wouldn't sound much different than the originally released CDs? Like, the bass, the drums, all that, wouldn't be as defined as in the Tusk and Rumours reissues?

[James Kirk]

Hi brucewayne,

No, in fact the HD version of Tusk is what is know as a flat transfer, meaning it is a direct transfer from the studio masters so it is as close to what they heard in the studio while making it and in my opinion if vastly superior to the Remastered CD's that came out in the early 2000 as well as the current new Tusk box set. The new box set version I find is better the the 2000 remasters but the HD tracks still edges it out.

The HD versions just seem to have more depth and space in the recordings.

Now you mentioned that you will be listening primarily on your Computer or by burning to CD.

If you are listening on your computer you should have no problem if you have a good sound card in decoding the HD versions however you will not be able to transfer the HD versions directly to CD without down converting them to CD format.

The HD versions are at such a higher bit rate (24 bit as compared to CD 16bit) and a greater kHz (192 or 96 kHz depending on the HD album compare to a CD that is at I believe 44.1kHz)

Note that when you down convert you will be losing a lot of the benefit of having a HD track but the mastering is still in my opinion to any other currently available version, especially in the case of say Mirage.

To down convert all you need is a piece of software such as dBpoweramp. It even has pre-sets for CD conversion, simply load your HD Tracks and choose CD as you output, it will convert them to a file format that your regular CD burning software will understand.

However at the end of the day all this is really subjective and up to the individual listener. Personally I love the HD Tracks versions as I find it gets them back to how they originally sounded before all the poor remastering and brickwalling was applied.
That being said a lot of people do like a louder more "in your face" version that the current remastered version seem to do the trick, they are just not for me.

Hope this helps.
have a great day!