Would you welcome an extended era of FM without SN?

[nicole21290]

As far as specific examples goes, using this one might have no bearing at all, depending on how you view CAH and what she says but for what it's worth...

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Tonight Stevie had brought in one of her songs with melody and lyrics already laid down over a simple basic track. Even though it was obvious that the song needed to be recorded professionally, to me it already sounded great. But not good enough, apparently, for Lindsey.

Stevie, standing in the middle of the room, kept a serene smile on her face as the band listened to her new song, “Storms.” As the last note faded away she looked around the room, waiting for the positive comments and feedback that she obviously felt the song would garner from everyone present. And then it all started to turn ugly.

With a slight twisted smile on his face, Lindsey drew first blood. Going over her new song bit by bit - pointing out how this part was crap, the next part needed to be raised or lowered by two octaves and this section desperately needed a new melody lines - he tore it apart. By the time he was finished dissecting everything in detail about what was wrong with the song, he smiled serenely and said, “I like it, Stevie. It just needs some work, that’s all.”

As Stevie listened to Lindsey’s comments you could almost see the steam coming off her. With sarcasm and hurt dripping from every word, she began to lash out at Lindsey and his suggestions. She knew what she wanted for her songs. And while she was more than willing to accept his input and his creative genius, she wouldn’t let him take over her musical creations completely. She just wouldn’t have it. And the end result was always the same: a snarling, vicious battle over her music.

For, without fail, the parts of a song that Lindsey didn’t like or outright hated were the parts of that song that Stevie loved. Their angry debates would quickly escalate to a screaming match, with stomping around (by Lindsey) and tears (from Stevie).

[He's So Unusual]

All I want is for the band to get over their nonsense and release a new album. If they can't do that, or if certain members can't, then walk away and call it a day instead of dragging everything out. I'm bored to tears of hearing about the drama. I swear some of it is calculated just to please the fans of the "on-going soap opera" that the band have been playing up to since the 1970s. Release a stellar album to end things or take the money from the tour and retire. If Stevie isn't interested in recording a new album, then they need to either release it without her or scrap it altogether. Stevie isn't the be-all and end-all when it comes to the band.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Tonight Stevie had brought in one of her songs with melody and lyrics already laid down over a simple basic track. Even though it was obvious that the song needed to be recorded professionally, to me it already sounded great. But not good enough, apparently, for Lindsey.

Maybe that was one of those songs Stevie did with Tom Moncrieff and brought in to FM. For a person who talks as much as Stevie, I'm surprised she doesn't give specific examples herself. it's not because she doesn't want to make Lindsey look bad, because she's already saying he put her at the back of the bus and was an Ayatollah, so it would be nice to hear how.

I do remember her talking about FM [mainly Lindsey I suppose, but Christine does add stuff too] changing her songs.

My songs in Fleetwood Mac are always very different than they are just done by me because they change them. It is the way it is, the way it has been and the way it will always be. I am sometimes very sad at the way they change my songs, I eventually get to like it because I eventually forgive the fact that they changed it so much and decide that I kind of like what they did anyway, so they weren’t such bad fellows after all.

And she did give this example of stuff he would say to her and she said she didn't have time for that kind of "abuse":

I wasn't there for a lot of that, because I was on the road. It was me that was causing all the friction, because Lindsey was the head guy and I was making him erratic. When I was not there it was good. They all got along fine. But, you have to understand that I'm an old girlfriend of Lindsey's, so that kind of makes me a warmonger in his eye. So, when I walked in it was like, "Thanks so much for stopping by. We heard you were busy with your solo tour. Thanks for bailing on us." That's the first thing I got. I didn't have time for that abuse. And I felt like, "If you don't get off my back, I'm gonna injure you badly." It got so bad that I said, "I'm going to do a solo record," much to Mick and Lindsey's absolute horror.

What we tend to get is examples of sarcasm from Lindsey. We don't get Stevie saying that he said, "You have no talent and your songs stink. This is awful." Instead, he says something pleasant -- but condescending. Instead he makes wry comments. For instance, Carol did mention he renamed SDMHA in her book too. Didn't she say he called it something like "Stop Dragging My Career Around", although she said he didn't say that in front of Stevie. In front of Stevie he was complimentary. But we know he eye rolls.

Even this year Christine said that Lindsey was sarcastic. But actually, both Stevie and Christine are very sarcastic themselves. There was no lack of sarcasm when Stevie talked about Lindsey's Tusk songs in the eighties.

I just think about the way we've talked about Cheaper Than Free. Remember how different Stevie's description of the song originating with Reese sounded from the video of the moment we actually saw? If we hadn't seen the Thrown Down personal pronoun conversation ourselves, I bet Stevie's description of the exchange would have made Lindsey seem much more unbearable than he actually was. If she was telling the story without video, she'd probably have him snarling, "You're no Bob Dylan!!!" But that's not the reality of what happened.

Michele

[michelej1]

You know I do understand wanting someone to produce your work, without wanting them to monopolize it. And it seems that Lindsey couldn't do that with Stevie. They don't collaborate well. As she says if one sees blue, the other sees gray, but even with Christine today Lindsey's very happy that he got to take a lot of "liberties" with those demos she gave him and doesn't seem to mind if he changes them. He wants that from Stevie. It's like he said with John that there ends up being something good in the tension that comes from thinking someone is going to walk all over your guitar lines and ... then they don't.

I guess Lindsey wants to run rampant all over Stevie's song. She understandably doesn't want that. But in the past, when she criticized him for not doing enough with her songs as well, it really seems like he's condemned if he does and condemned when he doesn't. If he leaves her songs alone, he's angry and not helping and when he changes her songs, he's a tyrant.

I understand that there should be a middle ground, like he has with Christine. A middle ground between 'helping' and conquering. BUT I feel the fact that there isn't a middle ground is not just because he wants to punish her for leaving him (although she thinks it is) but because they have such vastly different musical approaches. So, it's hard to find a compromise.

He could take my songs and do what I would do if I had musical talent. When he wasn't angry with me, that is. That's why there's seven or eight great songs, and there's 50 more where he wasn't happy with me and didn't help me.

Thats where the double edged sword came, whether he wanted to help me or not: 'So, you don't want to be my wife, my girlfriend, but you want me to do all that magic stuff on your songs. Is there anything else that you want, just, like, in my spare time?"

Michele

[AncientQueen]

It is in Lindseys best interests to make Stevies songs shine. I'm a fan, so I'm not sure how the general public sees FM, but I would guess that Stevie is the most known individual member of the band, with her songs being good drawing attention to any new band project. Christine writes the radio hits, Stevie has the big fanbase and Lindsey does the manly man guitar and production stuff, so that FM is not seen as band fronted by two women.

[FuzzyPlum]

So, the tour's all done. They've all gone their seperate ways. Now back to conjecture;

Mick will be shmoozing the diners at his restaurant and preparing for his charity concert with Rick Vito etc. Its easy to forget his dear mother Biddy passed away mid-tour. He'll probably still have things to sort out concerning her passing.
John will have a well earned rest and will find the time for some sailing.
Christine will probably return for a while to England. I wonder whether her house sold btw? Either way, she'll probably have plenty of sorting out to do. Perhaps she'll spend some time in the uk and then fly back and spend time with Mick (maybe even play in his Blues band again over the holidays).
Lindsey will will spend quality time with his family but will be eager I'm sure to get working on songs. I bet he's been thinking and tinkering with new songs a lot while on the road.
Stevie- she'll rest. Then...rest some more. Then... SFTV 2. Then she'll do a tour and promotion.


I don't want to see Stevie out of the band, but they have all that material begging to be used. I think Mick said they'll be back in the studio in the Spring. I want them to finish this record and put it out later in 2016. However, I just cant see Stevie being part of it- it's too soon for her. As soon as she's had a few weeks/months away from the band she'll not want to be back there in a hurry. Lindsey and Christine are in a creative zone and it will I'm sure be painful for them to be idle. Mick will also go out of his mind with nothing to do. With no Fleetwood Mac involvement there's too much of an incentive for him to spend money/lose money in a new business venture.

I think they should just get the album out as a foursome in 2016. Then, they should get back together with Stevie and have a big reunion for the big year in 2017. Maybe they can reunite with her and start a final album almost from scratch.

[Macfan4life]

There is no way Stevie is leaving this band. She stuck through it all and went on after both Lindsey and Christine left. One album left and hopefully one more tour. I don't see her leaving just before the band says goodbye. I see her wanting to be a part of the final bows with Fleetwood Mac.

[olive]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

There is no way Stevie is leaving this band. She stuck through it all and went on after both Lindsey and Christine left. One album left and hopefully one more tour. I don't see her leaving just before the band says goodbye. I see her wanting to be a part of the final bows with Fleetwood Mac.

she's quit before

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by olive

she's quit before

Totally different circumstances. The band carried on 3 years without Lindsey and did an album and 2 tours. The album did not sell well and Christine stopped touring and it was mutual that Stevie was going to leave with Chris. I remember when the Farwell tour was announced Stevie and Chris were leaving although Chris said no more touring. It was an end of that era.
Fast forward to today. Stevie will want to be there for the final curtain call.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Fast forward to today. Stevie will want to be there for the final curtain call.

I think they'll all continue until one of them
has the final curtain call.

[Missy]

The way I see it is that there will be another album (it's apparently already been recorded) and they will continue to perform occasionally with the whole line up, maybe at festivals and such.

If John became ill again and had to quit altogether I don't think they would ever replace him even though Stevie may continue to carry the songs solo.

Another full length tour I don't know but they've surprised me before.

Stevie has always been my favourite and it may once have seemed unimaginable to not have her there. But I think they could continue as a quartet if they had to and could be an interesting concept, though it doesn't seem likely because it would be going out on a wing.

Lindsey and Christine both understand musical arrangement and could collaborate. There was some cool interplay between them on the latest tour musically. It actually seemed to be Lindsey and Chris who were getting the best reviews for recent performances. There were many times that Lindsey seemed the crowd favourite and I heard many saying after the show that Lindsey was the show highlight for them because of his insane guitar skills, though 'they were all good'.

I had my concerns before they came to Australia, because I'd heard rumblings about Stevie being tired and weary of touring, finding it difficult to tolerate Lindsey etc. It didn't seem to bode well. But that's fairly par for the course with FM, they always seem to need some drama. At the show I saw there was no sign of trouble and Stevie apparently said a few times in Australia that this was not a 'goodbye tour'. How much of that was showbiz bravado and how much real, who knows?

In Brisbane she reportedly said they would be “doing this until we’re 9000 vampire years old”. Last month Mick was saying "This is not goodbye. Stevie [Nicks] mentioned it to me the other night, saying: 'this can't be the goodbye tour because no one said that it was'."

When an interviewer asked Stevie if she could ever see herself not performing, she replied "No. No, I would see myself being able to sing into my 70s because I will still have a really good voice when I'm in my 70s." (Once I might have laughed at that but last month hearing her live she seemed fine.)

When they went to New Zealand for the final shows they didn't seem to be saying much. The weather was unseasonably bad at the concerts and they were keeping chat between songs to a minimum because the crowds were in the rain.

If they continue good on them, if they decide to slow down well they've earned it. Time will tell.

[StreetAngel86]

Originally Posted by ryan4136

What if SN took "her" break from the band, like LB and CM did? Would you welcome the 4 moving on without Stevie for 4-5 years? Releasing an album, then touring as a quartet again?

er ... you do know she ALREADY took her "break" yeah?

and no I wouldn't welcome it.
No Stevie No Fleetwood Mac.
easy as

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber

Lindsey and Christine working together. It's hard for me to foresee that not resulting in something good.

I feel the same. As much as I want Stevie to play her part on the new album -- the last from the five "Fireflies", a Buckingham/McVie combo album could likely be a more musically satisfying than the Buckingham/Nicks combo album Say You Will (which I like for what it is).

A Stevie Nicks-free Fleetwood Mac album is a feasible possibility. While the Rumours configuration consists of three pillars, they still have the power of two engines. Their audience will still be there.

But it's wishful thinking to expect them to continue to be road warriors. I think the health issues John is dealing with will limit or stymie that prospect. A new album can still be successful without a major, arduous tour. There many are other ways to market/promote an album.

The last tour was just a promotional reminder of their past. Another tour, featuring a handful (at best) of new songs will have minimal effect on the commercial success of the new album. At this point in time, that really shouldn't be the priority anyway.

This album would be their coda; a goodbye to their fans, and the end of their long and winding legacy. This is what I hope for the most. Come think of it, FIREFLIES would be a good album title, assuming all five flies will be on it.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I feel the same. As much as I want Stevie to play her part on the new album -- the last from the five "Fireflies", a Buckingham/McVie combo album could likely be a more musically satisfying than the Buckingham/Nicks combo album Say You Will (which I like for what it is).

A Stevie Nicks-free Fleetwood Mac album is a feasible possibility. While the Rumours configuration consists of three pillars, they still have the power of two engines. Their audience will still be there.

But it's wishful thinking to expect them to continue to be road warriors. I think the health issues John is dealing with will limit or stymie that prospect. A new album can still be successful without a major, arduous tour. There many are other ways to market/promote an album.

The last tour was just a promotional reminder of their past. Another tour, featuring a handful (at best) of new songs will have minimal effect on the commercial success of the new album. At this point in time, that really shouldn't be the priority anyway.

This album would be their coda; a goodbye to their fans, and the end of their long and winding legacy. This is what I hope for the most. Come think of it, FIREFLIES would be a good album title, assuming all five flies will be on it.

flies??? like on a pile of poo??

Fireflies, good..... flies, bad

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

Come think of it, FIREFLIES would be a good album title...

Nope, not if you want it to sell.

I'd name the "new" Fleetwood Mac
album ADELE 70.