Has anyone brought this up yet?

[Wdm6789]

What if it was Stevie who left in 1998 instead of Christine? How do you guys think it would have played out? Or what if Lindsey left again in 1998 instead of Christine? Would they still have had the relative staying power that they had through the 2000s?

[Macfan4life]

The band would have played on. They may not have recorded an album like Say You Will though. The history of the band is that they will always play because of Mick Fleetwood and John McVie will play with whoever is by their side.

Lindsey left in 1987 and the band did 2 tours and 1 album without him
Stevie and Christine left in 1990 but Chris joined them to record Time but did not tour.
The Mac toured that year without Lindsey, Chris, and Stevie in 1994 and 1995. Billy was still there and they played Say you love me and Go your own way. They never played any Stevie songs though.
There was an article in the Palm Beach Post in 1997 when they were coming to town for the Dance tour. It said the last time they came to town was 1994 and 1995 and Mick and the group stayed at a Best Western off the interstate. Now (1997) they were staying in the Breakers Hotel (which is one of the most expensive hotels in the world) in Palm Beach. So Mick had no problem being humble. In 1994 they played a nightclub in West Palm Beach (the club regularly hosted bands). But it shows how small the crowds were and they still went on and played. Mick and John's love of playing did not get in the way for the few hundred that came to see them.
Long story short... Mick will "play on" as he has always does with members coming and going. That of course is the story of Fleetwood Mac.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

The Mac toured that year without Lindsey, Chris, and Stevie in 1994 and 1995. Billy was still there and they played Say you love me and Go your own way. They never played any Stevie songs though.

Setlist.fm shows that they played Gold Dust Woman and Dreams. I don't know how often but they were played. I think I've even seen a performance of GDW on YouTube before. You Make Loving Fun, World Turning, Don't Stop and The Chain were also played.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Wdm6789

What if it was Stevie who left in 1998 instead of Christine? How do you guys think it would have played out?

I think they would have waited for her to make up her mind, and once it was apparent she was out, they would have continued on as a quartet.

Or what if Lindsey left again in 1998 instead of Christine? Would they still have had the relative staying power that they had through the 2000s

Probably not. The reason the SYW-era had that staying power on some level was because they didn't bring anybody new into the band. But they would need somebody to fill the guitar player, male lead vocalist void, and that would mean getting somebody else (i.e. Billy Burnette and Rick Vito). That being said, I think they would have had some staying power, though definitely not as much.

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Lindsey left in 1987 and the band did 2 tours and 1 album without him

More like 1.5 albums when the of the songs from GH, the boxed set, etc. are factored in (and two when the songs that passed up are factored in).

Stevie and Christine left in 1990 but Chris joined them to record Time but did not tour.

They didn't really leave in 1990. They just announced they wouldn't be touring with the band anymore. Christine retired from touring, not the band, and Stevie refused to be the sole singer from "Rumours" still fronting the band. Stevie actually quit some time in 1991, after Mick wouldn't give her "Silver Springs" (which was already under contract for "The Chain").

The Mac toured that year without Lindsey, Chris, and Stevie in 1994 and 1995. Billy was still there and they played Say you love me and Go your own way. They never played any Stevie songs though.

Typically, they played 10-12 songs in their setlists:

The Chain
You Make Loving Fun or Say You Love Me
Oh Well (made into a duet)
Blow By Blow
We Just Disagree
Gold Dust Woman
World Turning
Only You Know & I Know or Dear Mr. Fantasy
Go Your Own Way

Don't Stop
Imagine or Dreamin' The Dream

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think they would have waited for her to make up her mind, and once it was apparent she was out, they would have continued on as a quartet.


Probably not. The reason the SYW-era had that staying power on some level was because they didn't bring anybody new into the band. But they would need somebody to fill the guitar player, male lead vocalist void, and that would mean getting somebody else (i.e. Billy Burnette and Rick Vito). That being said, I think they would have had some staying power, though definitely not as much.



More like 1.5 albums when the of the songs from GH, the boxed set, etc. are factored in (and two when the songs that passed up are factored in).


They didn't really leave in 1990. They just announced they wouldn't be touring with the band anymore. Christine retired from touring, not the band, and Stevie refused to be the sole singer from "Rumours" still fronting the band. Stevie actually quit some time in 1991, after Mick wouldn't give her "Silver Springs" (which was already under contract for "The Chain").


Typically, they played 10-12 songs in their setlists:

The Chain
You Make Loving Fun or Say You Love Me
Oh Well (made into a duet)
Blow By Blow
We Just Disagree
Gold Dust Woman
World Turning
Only You Know & I Know or Dear Mr. Fantasy
Go Your Own Way

Don't Stop
Imagine or Dreamin' The Dream

I love you Steve. You are an addicted Ledgie and know your stuff! But you are slicing and dicing my comments. To say the Mac recorded 1.5 albums after Lindsey left? C'mon now. Why don't you include Greatest Hits and include another .5 albums
Seriously though I think you knew what I meant... full studio album

In 1990 the Behind the Mask tour was in full swing. I had tickets to go in Pittsburgh in July but the tour was cancelled since Christine's dad has passed away. Also during the tour Mick released his book which was the first to mention his affair with Stevie and her out of control coke spins in 1986. Stevie threatened leaving the band and legal action. But the Mac pressed on and announced the "Farewell Tour" in late 1990. I was lucky to attend they made the effort to make up the date in Pittsburgh. The tour songs changed with dropping their only hit from Behind the Mask "Save Me' and putting Say you Love me back into the set. It was the Farwell tour....Fleetwood Mac's last tour. Yes it was already reported before the Farwell Tour started that Chris and Stevie were no longer going to tour with the band. But on December 7, 1990, Stevie took the stage with Lindsey on the Farewell Tour to sing Landslide. She walked off the stage never to work with Fleetwood Mac again until 1997 The Dance. She did have a fight with Mick about Silver Springs in 1991. Fleetwood Mac was dead at that time. No tours no albums, nothing. It is slicing and dicing my comments again to say Stevie left in 1991 just months after her last gig in December 1990. C'mon man!
I did mention Chris left in 1990 but did return for Time. Time did not even make Billboard 200. So again... changing the words of my statements but saying the same thing.
Not being a jerk but just a pet peeve when people quote your post and correct you when you are saying the same thing!

Yes I was wrong about Stevie songs in the sets 1994 and 1995. I saw them at SunFest West Palm Beach 1995. I don't remember any Stevie songs. But they did open for REO Speedwagon and Pat Benatar and maybe the main tour did include Stevie songs. I guess because I saw the 1991 Stevie interview that is on youtube where she sort of threatened Fleetwood Mac they better not do any of her songs. Maybe that is why I thought they would not go there.

Just saying

[SorcererJP]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

The Mac toured that year without Lindsey, Chris, and Stevie in 1994 and 1995. Billy was still there and they played Say you love me and Go your own way. They never played any Stevie songs though.

I saw them front row in a horrible show in Leiden (Holland) in the fall of 1994 (try to forget about it) and saw and heard Bekka Bramlett performing an awkward version of Gold Dust Woman ...

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by SorcererJP

I saw them front row in a horrible show in Leiden (Holland) in the fall of 1994 (try to forget about it) and saw and heard Bekka Bramlett performing an awkward version of Gold Dust Woman ...

To each their own, but I thought the version of "Gold Dust Woman" that lineup did was pretty freaking hot. Up to then, I thought it was the best Fleetwood Mac version of GDW ever performed; and the only better version was the version Stevie did with Sheryl Crow's band when Sheryl recorded her Central Park concert.

When I saw them in '94 at Woodley Park in Van Nuys, CA, they also performed "Dreams" & Bekka did a fantastic job of it, too; but it was pretty obvious that her's & Stevie's styles were very different. But, that's about the equivalent of saying that Peter Green's, Bob Welch's, Rick Vito's & Lindsey Buckingham's styles of guitar playing are different. Yet, they all did "Oh Well"...to varying degrees of success.

[elle]

Originally Posted by chiliD

To each their own, but I thought the version of "Gold Dust Woman" that lineup did was pretty freaking hot. Up to then, I thought it was the best Fleetwood Mac version of GDW ever performed; and the only better version was the version Stevie did with Sheryl Crow's band when Sheryl recorded her Central Park concert.

the best version of GDW i've ever heard is Courtney Love's (sorry Lindsey!).

i heard Smashing Pumpkins version of Landslide the other day, and however fed up i am with that song when SN performs it (solo, with FM, or with DG), Pumpkins version was a straight up cover but so deep and beautiful somehow.

SN to me is the best when she performs the right covers, not her own songs. i was shocked and pleasantly surprised so many times when i heard her doing some of the covers. others... not so much. she should not be doing Zep.

[wetcamelfood]

I think Mick's philosophy changed after the success of The Dance. Before he would get new members and go on but since then, I bet he's had the feeling that if SN & LB aren't there, FM can't do anything (unless PG/Jeremy/Danny came back). Christine coming back is an added bonus for him. I'd be VERY surprised if there was ever another person out there made a member of FM going forward.

John

[Jondalar]

Behind the Mask was horrible. It just proved that they needed Lindsey.

I believe that Lindsey and Christine are magic. They really have a great musical chemistry. Can't wait to hear their new songs. Stevie is never going to listen to Lindsey. Because of that reason he can't produce her. She should stick with her solo work because it just keeps getting better and better. 24k is excellent. Tango in the Night proved they don't really need her to make a great album.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Behind the Mask was horrible. It just proved that they needed Lindsey.

Again...to each their own. I thoroughly enjoy Behind The Mask. They really don't "need" Lindsey. Never did. He's proven he's better on his own anyway. Doesn't have to "compromise" for the sake of the band.

[tabruns]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Behind the Mask was horrible. It just proved that they needed Lindsey.

I believe that Lindsey and Christine are magic. They really have a great musical chemistry. Can't wait to hear their new songs. Stevie is never going to listen to Lindsey. Because of that reason he can't produce her. She should stick with her solo work because it just keeps getting better and better. 24k is excellent. Tango in the Night proved they don't really need her to make a great album.

Tango suffered because Nicks' songs weren't up to par. Mac can go on with 2/3 of the songwriters....BTM was pleasant if predictable pop, SYW was less commercial guitar-heavy work, but both are decent albums. But neither is as good as albums when all 3 writers are present (TITN, Mirage, Tusk) or when all 3 writers are writing solidly (white album, Rumours).

Had Nicks been in better shape, TITN would have reached white album/Rumours level. Had McVie been her usual pop radio hooks laden self on Tusk, that album would have as well....although Tusk still rates as a classic purely because Buckingham and Nicks were both at the very peak of their abilities.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Why don't you include Greatest Hits and include another .5 albums

I WAS including the GH album on that. In addition to "Behind The Mask," they also released "As Long As You Follow," "No Questions Asked," "Roll With Me Henry" (credited to Christine McVie & Friends, the "friends" being Mick, John, Billy, and Rick), "Lizard People," "Paper Doll," "Love Shines," and "Heart of Stone." Six songs was half an album, last I checked.

Seriously though I think you knew what I meant... full studio album

I knew what you meant, but they released more than just that album. And that doesn't even include the "Tango" tour video.

Also during the tour Mick released his book which was the first to mention his affair with Stevie and her out of control coke spins in 1986.

Which shocked absolutely nobody. It was common knowledge that she went to rehab for a coke problem. As for their affair, he just confirmed what 99% of us already suspected (the other 1% being shippers who can't grasp the fact S&L aren't still together).

Stevie threatened leaving the band and legal action.

Only because she hadn't read the book, yet. My understanding is that she was actually miffed that the affair was presented so sparsely after she read it. I remember the huge deal they made about the book, but, like with many things related to this band, it was blown completely out of proportion.

But the Mac pressed on and announced the "Farewell Tour" in late 1990.

NOT a "Farewell Tour," just that Stevie and Christine wouldn't be touring anymore. The original idea was that the boys would press on. It would have looked something like THIS:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcf...top-live_music

But on December 7, 1990, Stevie took the stage with Lindsey on the Farewell Tour to sing Landslide. She walked off the stage never to work with Fleetwood Mac again until 1997 The Dance.

(Clinton could nearly negotiate an Israeli-Palestinian peace treaty, but not a Hi-Watt or Mesa/Boogie???)

She did have a fight with Mick about Silver Springs in 1991. Fleetwood Mac was dead at that time. No tours no albums, nothing. It is slicing and dicing my comments again to say Stevie left in 1991 just months after her last gig in December 1990.

She had no intention of leaving the band altogether in December, 1990. Rick Vito was the first to leave, followed by Stevie. It was months, and probably not unexpected as far as they were concerned. (I mean, how could she still justify touring as a solo artist, but not as a member of the band she claimed membership?)

I did mention Chris left in 1990 but did return for Time.

CHRISTINE NEVER LEFT AT THAT POINT!!! SHE ONLY RETIRED FROM TOURING. Check the "Second Hand News" section on this site. Her interview from 1992 makes it clear that she was still in the band. There are also pics of Chris with Fleetwood Mac from 1994 with Dave Mason and Bekka Bramlett (prior to Billy's return). Christine said she wouldn't tour, but would still record with them. She became their Brian Wilson. She didn't tour, but was on the album. She only left after "Time" was release, which is a point of minutia, since the band never toured in support of that album.

Time did not even make Billboard 200.

But "Out Of The Cradle" and "Street Angel" burned up the charts?

just a pet peeve when people quote your post and correct you when you are saying the same thing!

But we're not saying the same thing. Fleetwood Mac released MORE than just the one album with Billy and Rick, there has never been a farewell tour, Stevie's original intention was, at least publicly, to stay in the band, and Christine never quit the band prior to the end of 1995 (shortly before the band called it a day). All very different points.

[Dreamz19]

Originally Posted by SorcererJP

I saw them front row in a horrible show in Leiden (Holland) in the fall of 1994 (try to forget about it) and saw and heard Bekka Bramlett performing an awkward version of Gold Dust Woman ...

I watched a performance of her singing GDW on YT sometime ago and I thought she did a great job. I liked that she made it her own and didn't copy Stevie.

[nicole21290]

Some quotes.

November 18th 1990 - Sun Herald

WHEN singers Stevie Nicks and Christine McVie quit supergroup Fleetwood Mac next month at the end of a US tour, it will come as no shock to fans who have followed the band’s 23-year history. McVie plans to take a brief rest from the music business and Nicks will complete a new solo album in 1991, although both singers said they would participate on Fleetwood Mac’s next album. The band has sold 50 million albums around the world.

December 6th 1990 - Los Angeles Times

Stevie Nicks had hoped to make it to Friday night at the Forum before the tears started falling. That’s when she and Christine McVie apparently will be making their last appearance as full-time members of Fleetwood Mac. Though the two are slated to contribute to the next Mac album, the Inglewood Forum concert will mark the end of an era for a group that ruled the pop charts in the late ’70s, with the two women as the public focal points.

Nicks figured that it would be Friday, during her introduction of her song “Landslide,” in which she always makes a dedication to someone at the show, before the emotions of change would really hit her. But she didn’t even make it through a recent interview. “In my heart I don’t believe it is the last show,” Nicks said through sobs while talking on the phone from Saskatoon, Canada, where the group was performing.

"I know that’s not what everybody else has said to you," Nicks said. "We are all individuals and have our opinions, and until three years go by and I see the whole thing with no chance of getting back together, I’ll never believe it’s over. I really believe everything is destined, and if we’re supposed to be together, we will be."

December 12th 1990 - Los Angeles Times

The last Fleetwood Mac concert for Christine McVie and Stevie Nicks? It was hard to tell Friday at the Forum, with the pair making what was billed as their last appearances as full-time members of the band after respective tenures of 20 and 15 years. No tears, no retirement speeches and few indications that this was more than just the end of a grueling, nine-month tour, that this was the end of an era.

But there were dramatic moments. Midway through the 2 1/2-hour show, the band left the stage eerily empty. After a brief pause, Nicks returned, escorting Lindsey Buckingham, her former musical and romantic partner who left the band two years ago and had not appeared with them on stage in eight. Nicks emotionally introduced their pre-Mac duet “Landslide,” expressing the “hope that someday he’ll find it in his heart to spend some time with me and maybe make some music.”

July 14th 1991 - Boston Sunday Globe

"I said [to Mick] if you don’t give me back my song, then I won’t write two new songs for your new record. So that’s where it stands right now … He won’t talk to me about it. I have no clue as to why he made that decision. It never stops, does it? Fleetwood Mac goes on like a miniseries. It’s one of those ‘Gone With the Wind’ things that goes on & on; & I never really know what’s going to happen. I never burn bridges, but right now I don’t think I’ll work with them."

Also in 1991:

"Right now I’m not very happy with Mick, & it’s over a pretty serious thing. He won’t give in & I feel it’s unfair, & since he’s not considering my feelings & I’ve always considered his, for the first time in my life I can actually say, ‘No, I’m not going to tour with them or work with them on this record.’ Not them, but him, because he’s done something that is unforgivable."

"I can’t believe he’s stupid enough to break this band up for a song he dumped in the garbage can. I fought like a dog to keep this band together for 15 years. I didn’t have to because I had my own solo career. I have always loved Mick, & I have always done everything I could to keep him going. It’s a pretty sad way to end Fleetwood Mac. This is going to be a shock to the rest of the band when they see the stupidity of Mick’s decision. It has nothing to do with all the other things we could have broken up over. I didn’t even get mad at him about his book. Last December, as we were wrapping up the tour, when I introduced the band, I would say ‘the fabulous Mick Fleetwood, drummer extraordinaire & best-selling author!’ I was trying to help him sell the damn book!"

VH1-1 she was asked where her relationship with Fleetwood Mac stood at that point. “It does not stand,” she said. “It [recording with the band] is not going to happen. Because the story’s already all over, so there’s no reason for me to really go into it. It all stems down to an argument between me & Mr. Fleetwood. And that’s down to the fact that he would not return to me a song that he dumped in the can 14 years ago, slapped on the back of a single & was never heard from again. And I wanted to put it on ‘Timespace’ because it belongs to my mom, & he said, ‘Over my dead body.’ And I said, ‘Well then, you just broke the camel’s back.’ So I won’t be involved anymore.”

"I told Dennis [Dunstan, Mick’s manager] what I wanted. I said, ‘I want Silver Springs because it belongs to my mother.’ … When ‘Timespace’ came around, it didn’t occur to me that they wouldn’t let me have it back. Switching back quickly to the night I called Mick a couple of months ago, & he didn’t want to return my call, I talked to his manager & said: ‘Well, you find Mick, & you tell him that if I don’t get those tapes by Monday, I am no longer a member of Fleetwood Mac.’ And he said, ‘Ok, give me until 10:30. I’ll find Mick. Don’t do anything yet.’ And I said, ‘Ok.’ And at about 10:15 Dennis called back & said that he had finally tracked Mick down. And Mick had said, ‘Over my dead body will I ever give that song back.’ And now he has ruined Fleetwood Mac’s future."

"Mick & I are having an intense argument. We’re not speaking. We haven’t spoken since the 7th of December of last year, which was our last gig at the Forum. He & I have come to a crossroads. And so, I don’t know if Mick can pull this one out of the bag. He may be able to, because Mick’s very magic sometimes, & he may be able to talk me out of it, but I don’t think so. Not this time."

"I would definitely have worked on the next record that they’re gonna do, which is gonna be a big, BIG, like, conglomeration of songs from, you know, 30 years ago all the way up until now, & some new ones. And I said, ‘Of course I’ll do that. Whatever.’ Because I’m a very soft touch. They all know it … And when I say ‘they’ that’s not very fair, because they have nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with me & Mick. WE are having the argument, not Fleetwood Mac & I. … How he’s gonna get out of this, I don’t know. Because, obviously, ‘Timespace’ is already out, & ‘Silver Springs’ isn’t on it."

And for good measure...

23rd April 1992 - Billboard

"A few years ago," says Lindsey, "Stevie and I bought back the rights to the ‘Buckingham Nicks’ album" - whose assistant engineer was Richard Dashut, still Lindsey’s best friend and co-producer. "That record has become one of the most requested albums not yet on CD, and we may put it out around the same time as a Fleetwood Mac boxed set that’s planned for Christmas. Incidentally, Stevie and I have agreed to go into the studio in a week or so to contribute some new stuff to the boxed set."

17th July 1994 - The Boston Herald

"It was very hard to leave [Fleetwood Mac]. I just couldn't leave them after Lindsey left [in 1987]. I couldn't do that to-- them. I just couldn't. But after Lindsey came and played the inaguration with us, I realized I could never deal with Fleetwood Mac again unless it would be the five of us. And it never will be that way again. So I decided my part in that particular Shakespearean drama is over."