So… what are your TOP 6 favorite songs so far from 24 Karat Gold...

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

I don't think it's a song either but I love the music. It's just a stream of thought rambling like she is thinking out loud.

Yes, I agree that it's stream of consciousness, more than anything else.

What I don't like is that, for me, her voice doesn't have any special cadence to give the words meaning or emphasis. Kind of like a comedian who has no timing, so when he gives the punchline, you're going, "Oh! Was that the end?" That would be a lesser comedian than Mabel, of course.

So, you either have to creat the "song" with the music or with the rhythm of your speech and I don't hear it, but definitely most listeners seem to put it in their top 5 list.

Michele

[jwd]

There are no rules in rock and roll! Everything is subjective. You either like it or you don't. I happen to love Mabel Normand!

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yes, I agree that it's stream of consciousness, more than anything else.

What I don't like is that, for me, her voice doesn't have any special cadence to give the words meaning or emphasis. Kind of like a comedian who has no timing, so when he gives the punchline, you're going, "Oh! Was that the end?" That would be a lesser comedian than Mabel, of course.

So, you either have to creat the "song" with the music or with the rhythm of your speech and I don't hear it, but definitely most listeners seem to put it in their top 5 list.

Michele

Alanis Morrisette does the same thing, more so. This song is like I Don't Care to me. Great music to chill too, but not that thrilled with the lyrics. But I can't really call it bad, because I love the backing music soo much.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Alanis Morrisette does the same thing, more so. This song is like I Don't Care to me. Great music to chill too, but not that thrilled with the lyrics. But I can't really call it bad, because I love the backing music soo much.

I like part of I Don't Care, but when it gets to the 'I take it back, I DO care' part, it completely loses steam. It's a bridge that breaks apart, rather than sustains or connects the song segments. But she needs a rocker in concert and if this goes in in place of GAG, that should work fine.

To me, Starshine and The Dealer are obvious choices for her next solo tour.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I like part of I Don't Care, but when it gets to the 'I take it back, I DO care' part, it completely loses steam. It's a bridge that breaks apart, rather than sustains or connects the song segments.

Michele

yep. that was my criticism on my top 6 list. if the song needed that kind of musical interlude, just let it go without more words added. it had an appealing raunchiness to it that those words just spoil.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I like part of I Don't Care, but when it gets to the 'I take it back, I DO care' part, it completely loses steam. It's a bridge that breaks apart, rather than sustains or connects the song segments. But she needs a rocker in concert and if this goes in in place of GAG, that should work fine.

To me, Starshine and The Dealer are obvious choices for her next solo tour.

Michele

I like I Don't Care because the music is excellent. However, the lyrics are totally boring. I feel like saying who cares if you don't care you brat. They lyrics are not worthy of her. I feel like the lyrics are juvenile.

This song could of been a classic for the times if she would of written better lyrics. Still the music is stellar.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jwd

There are no rules in rock and roll! Everything is subjective. You either like it or you don't.

But if you can pinpoint why you don't like it, I find that helpful. Obviously, others are going to agree or disagree. Majority seems to like Mabel Normand, quite a bit.

Michele

[jwd]

Originally Posted by michelej1

But if you can pinpoint why you don't like it, I find that helpful. Obviously, others are going to agree or disagree. Majority seems to like Mabel Normand, quite a bit.

Michele

That's all good and fine but I think when you start dissecting a song as to whether it has verses and choruses it becomes a little bit of overkill to me. The words in any form, the vocal, and the music is what I feel makes a great song. It's not so much about structure but about execution and delivery of your message.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jwd

That's all good and fine but I think when you start dissecting a song as to whether it has verses and choruses it becomes a little bit of overkill to me. The words in any form, the vocal, and the music is what I feel makes a great song. It's not so much about structure but about execution and delivery of your message.

If you think talking about verses and choruses in a SONG is over dissecting, then it seems to me that you don't believe in discussion on a discussion board.

Besides, I didn't start off talking about that anyway. I just said it wasn't a song. Obviously, it's a song to the people who like it, but it's not a song to me. Then, people started telling me why it IS indeed a song. That's when I broke down what I was hearing. Lack of cadence in the vocal, incongruent music matched to words and message. You can recognize what a work aspires to be, without thinking it has achieved the aspiration. That's how I feel about this.

I don't think the execution and delivery was any good. If it had been then the lack of verses and choruses wouldn't have made a difference. If it had been, the execution and delivery would have created its own structure.

There are some songs that I don't like because I'm not into the style, like Lady. No particular reason why the song doesn't appeal to me, not something I can articulate. But when, someone initiates a discussion about a "not a song" comment I made and I can pinpoint a particular reason why I don't like it in a response, I will.

You like it and most people do. That's great, but that's not a reason for me not to discuss why I don't, when others have commented on a remark I made about it.

Michele

[PenguinHead]

Think what you want, but Mabel Normand is a song, whether you like it or not.

I really enjoy all the opinions - a wide span of love and hate, and everything in between. True art evokes an emotion and s reaction -- and this song certain fits the bill!

Even if you don't favor it, at least appreciate Stevie was brave enough to step out the comfort zone.

[tabruns]

I just listened to it again. Where Michele loses me is where she thinks the music doesn't fit the lyrics and that the cadence is off. I'm not questioning that this is her perception but it's not mine - to me, the music fits the advancement of the lyric perfectly, and the cadence really works. I think the "change sides" slight break helps the song maintain a tension and keeps it from becoming monotonous.

Of course the cool thing about albums with 15 or 17 songs is that you can eliminate the tracks you really dislike and make a "perfect" (for you) album. I do this ALL the time. There are very few albums on my iTunes list that survive intact. I always make them fit what I want. With 24KG I'm not sure yet what I would eliminate, if anything.

I know I definitely love:
Starshine
24 Karat Gold
Mabel Normand
The Dealer
Lady
Belle Fleur

And I'm pretty sure I like:
Blue Water
She Loves Him Still
Cathouse Blues
Hard Advice
I Don't Care
All The Beautiful Worlds
Watch Chain

So that leaves:
Twisted - I like it, but I liked the soundtrack version. Sometimes I could see having two versions of the same song out (Thrown Down on SYW and Thrown Down as done for TISL, I love em both......Silver Springs as the Rumours out-take and Silver Springs from The Dance, I love them both too). But this version of Twisted just hasn't struck me (yet) as being necessary.

If You Were My Love - I'm just hung up on that I liked the Mirage demo a lot more.

Carousel - it's not a bad song, I just think of it as a Vanessa Carlton song and not a Stevie Nicks song.

[Hawkeye]

1. Mable Normand
2. I Don't Care
3. All the Beautiful Worlds
4. Starshine
5. 24 karat gold
6. Carousel

7. Hard Advice
8. Belle Fleur

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by tabruns

I just listened to it again. Where Michele loses me is where she thinks the music doesn't fit the lyrics and that the cadence is off. I'm not questioning that this is her perception but it's not mine - to me, the music fits the advancement of the lyric perfectly, and the cadence really works. I think the "change sides" slight break helps the song maintain a tension and keeps it from becoming monotonous.

I think that the "change sides" part is definitely the strongest element. For me, that would be the lure.

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

Think what you want, but Mabel Normand is a song, whether you like it or not.

Even if I did like it, I wouldn't consider it a song. Just prose with music playing under. Although, it's not somber, it actually reminds me of some eulogies (or in memoriam segments) I've heard in the past. That's why I likened it to Thoughts on a Grey Day.

But I do agree that it was great that Stevie wanted something avant garde to make the cut. When we heard about 24 Karat Gold and everyone started making guesses, this song was on no one's list at all. I think it was mentioned once as a joke. And yet they did it and refused to be predictable. I like that, just as I would have liked the decision to use Soldier's Angel, even if I didn't like that song.

Michele

[SpyNote]

Originally Posted by tabruns

Twisted - I like it, but I liked the soundtrack version. Sometimes I could see having two versions of the same song out (Thrown Down on SYW and Thrown Down as done for TISL, I love em both......Silver Springs as the Rumours out-take and Silver Springs from The Dance, I love them both too). But this version of Twisted just hasn't struck me (yet) as being necessary.

It's interesting to see how attached Stevie is to this song and how hard she's tried to make people like it, even though it's probably one that only her most ardent fans will give the same respect. It's a good song, but not worthy of so many different released versions.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SpyNote

It's interesting to see how attached Stevie is to this song and how hard she's tried to make people like it, even though it's probably one that only her most ardent fans will give the same respect. It's a good song, but not worthy of so many different released versions.

yep, and that's why artists do better with a good editor. We get emotionally attached to something and that blinds us to the fact that it just isn't necessarily what *we* think it is. In music obviously this would mean a good producer with a good sense of who the artist is and what they're trying to do who can be honest about whether the material lives up to the artist's hopes and dreams of what they want it to be. Clearly Lindsey had a very good ear for her work in the day but was not particularly sensitive or considerate in how he expressed that. Now Dave, he is very sensitive and considerate it seems, but at the expense of not always being perhaps as much of a truth-teller as he could be. Dave cares if she likes him in the studio; Lindsey, not so much. There are pros and cons to each approach.