Who is the least talented singer/songwriter in Fleetwood Mac

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Singer/Songwriters should learn to play an instrument. The tambourine doesn't cut it. I voted for Stevie.

Why?

"Singer-songwriters are musicians who write, compose and perform their own musical material including lyrics and melodies."

Does the guitar and piano not cut it? Or do you have to have a certain level of skill before someone gets a pass mark on their ability to play and it's counted? She can write, compose and perform her material - see her demos. No, they're not as 'complete' as when someone like Lindsey has worked on them. No, they're not as complex when she's the one playing a demo. No, they'll never have a number of unexpected chord changes. But they're songs. And she's written them. And often she's written the music too, even at a fundamental, more basic level.

[elle]

Originally Posted by David

Fleetwood Mac is usually great at amplifying all the songwriters' strengths and making their weaknesses less important to the vibe the music is giving out. In the context of the classic Fleetwood Mac music, the songwriters all feel, to me, like better writers than they are. I don't know what to attribute that feeling to, but maybe it's the revolving variety of having three songwriters in one band. (The older versions of Fleetwood Mac have that magic, too.)

It has also helped considerably to have such intelligent and creative track production in the band. The singers were recorded superbly well and given excellent backdrops at the "right" levels. That made them all sound like great pop singers.

beautifully said.

Originally Posted by Dex

I appreciate that negativity isn't everyone's cup of tea, but coming into a thread and posting about how stupid/awful the thread is doesn't exactly seem like a great, non-hypocritical way to express that. It's not like this thread is being particularly tricky/shady in any way. It's doing exactly what it says on the label. And it's very easy to not open it or participate in it.

Personally I enjoy a little negativity amidst my fanwankery. Keeps me sharp. And I'm willing to bet I'm not alone. There's a place for threads like this here, too.

exactly to all of it. going into threads you know you won't like before opening them and then telling everybody how much you don't like them seems like a waste of bandwidth.

and completely agree re sharpening your arguing skills. and possibly coming out with something you didn't think of or knew at the start.

Originally Posted by michelej1

But I like it if they provoke interesting discussion.

yes. and i can bet right now what the results of this poll will be.

so i think i'll go from a positive side - question is a combination of singer/songwriter talent so that's different than just great singer or just great songwriter. but i still have to dissect a bit.

talent as a singer:
i think Christine is a great and talented singer, with very interesting, warm, and low for a woman, voice. quality of her voice comes through clearly throughout her career.
i think Stevie has the most interesting singing voice although she never had much range, but i was amazed to hear her singing "Ring Around Your Neck" as well as "It's So Easy" - both songs showed how great and talented singer she really is.
i think Lindsey used to have a range (remember Fritz guys saying how he'd have to sing many songs that were really for a girl singer because Stevie just didn't have needed range), but i hated his young singing voice. however, as he ages, his later songs (especially solo) fit his deeper voice really well, as well as some of the reworkings of his older songs. on ISA or BL for example, he sounds pretty great, plus his voice and instrument together can do some pretty unique stuff.
so as a singer the most talent (if judged by interesting singing voice) would go to either Stevie or Christine.

talent as a songwriter:
Lindsey describes himself as a stylist. his lyrics can be amazing, or they can be kinda trashy. they can be literal and gibberish but still ingenious (bam bam bam?), or they can be really poetic and profound. age appropriate if you will, especially on his later solo work. his musical talent? the guy is obviously born with loads of it and then some - for writing melodies, hooks, interesting within-song changing chord progressions, arranging, playing instruments... he has a huge spectrum, from pop to experimental to just pure typical LB, he thinks in music and melodies, apparently, and when asked he always says that he almost always comes up with the music first, then lyrics.
i don't know Christine's output nearly as well as Lindsey's, but the woman can write and arrange a song, and create unbelievable hooks. her songs may be in many cases a bit poppy for my taste but i can definitely appreciate how much talent for songwriting she has. i like what she said recently, how staying away from songwriting and performing after a while just felt wrong - like she's wasting this huge gift she was given. it did not sound pretentious at all the way she said it, just a fact.
i appreciate that Stevie's lyrics touch many people and made better many of the lives of people here. that's definitely a talent, even if she's not Bob Dylan (a horrible singer!). someone in this thread was arguing about the completeness of the songs she writes - yes, her version of the chain was a complete song, very different from one-of-a-kind sum-of-the-parts FM version. with a few exceptions, somewhere starting with Sara, bulk of her melodies became reciting lyrics to some music in a sing-songy way, as someone characterized it recently. after hearing her singing some of the covers, i have to say that it's too bad that songs she wrote over the years didn't really allow her to realize her full potential as a singer.
so pure musical talent would have to go to either Lindsey or Christine.

now, talent as a singer/songwriter is a combination, something that may not necessarily be a sum of the two parts.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by elle

beautifully said.


exactly to all of it. going into threads you know you won't like before opening them and then telling everybody how much you don't like them seems like a waste of bandwidth.

and completely agree re sharpening your arguing skills. and possibly coming out with something you didn't think of or knew at the start.


yes. and i can bet right now what the results of this poll will be.

so i think i'll go from a positive side - question is a combination of singer/songwriter talent so that's different than just great singer or just great songwriter. but i still have to dissect a bit.

talent as a singer:
i think Christine is a great and talented singer, with very interesting, warm, and low for a woman, voice. quality of her voice comes through clearly throughout her career.
i think Stevie has the most interesting singing voice although she never had much range, but i was amazed to hear her singing "Ring Around Your Neck" as well as "It's So Easy" - both songs showed how great and talented singer she really is.
i think Lindsey used to have a range (remember Fritz guys saying how he'd have to sing many songs that were really for a girl singer because Stevie just didn't have needed range), but i hated his young singing voice. however, as he ages, his later songs (especially solo) fit his deeper voice really well, as well as some of the reworkings of his older songs. on ISA or BL for example, he sounds pretty great, plus his voice and instrument together can do some pretty unique stuff.
so as a singer the most talent (if judged by interesting singing voice) would go to either Stevie or Christine.

talent as a songwriter:
Lindsey describes himself as a stylist. his lyrics can be amazing, or they can be kinda trashy. they can be literal and gibberish but still ingenious (bam bam bam?), or they can be really poetic and profound. age appropriate if you will, especially on his later solo work. his musical talent? the guy is obviously born with loads of it and then some - for writing melodies, hooks, interesting within-song changing chord progressions, arranging, playing instruments... he has a huge spectrum, from pop to experimental to just pure typical LB, he thinks in music and melodies, apparently, and when asked he always says that he almost always comes up with the music first, then lyrics.
i don't know Christine's output nearly as well as Lindsey's, but the woman can write and arrange a song, and create unbelievable hooks. her songs may be in many cases a bit poppy for my taste but i can definitely appreciate how much talent for songwriting she has. i like what she said recently, how staying away from songwriting and performing after a while just felt wrong - like she's wasting this huge gift she was given. it did not sound pretentious at all the way she said it, just a fact.
i appreciate that Stevie's lyrics touch many people and made better many of the lives of people here. that's definitely a talent, even if she's not Bob Dylan (a horrible singer!). someone in this thread was arguing about the completeness of the songs she writes - yes, her version of the chain was a complete song, very different from one-of-a-kind sum-of-the-parts FM version. with a few exceptions, somewhere starting with Sara, bulk of her melodies became reciting lyrics to some music in a sing-songy way, as someone characterized it recently. after hearing her singing some of the covers, i have to say that it's too bad that songs she wrote over the years didn't really allow her to realize her full potential as a singer.
so pure musical talent would have to go to either Lindsey or Christine.

now, talent as a singer/songwriter is a combination, something that may not necessarily be a sum of the two parts.

Great post. Thanks.

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Great post. Thanks.

Yeah, was very enjoyable to read, Elle. I certainly don't agree with it all but it was refreshing to read more thought out opinions on all three and in different aspects of their work. And I do think approaching it from the 'positive' angle is more beneficial, to be honest. There's nothing wrong with criticism and saying who you think is the 'least' talented but it's nice to have that tempered with WHY you think the others ARE 'more' talented. I'm not fond of the 'least'/'most'/'best'/'worst' listing at the best of times, but I do very much enjoy the 'why' of it and the reasoning given. THAT is instructional and interesting to me.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Did you forget Mick Fleetwood? He has done vocals on two songs, plus songwriting credits on a couple of others. I'd suggest he's been an abject failure as a singer/songwriter

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Give me a break.

Have you listened to Lizard People or These Strange Times recently?

[HelloMonster]

They all suck! I hate them all!

[secret love]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Have you listened to Lizard People or These Strange Times recently?

Lizard People is the weirdest song I have ever heard. These Strange Times was...strange!!

Mick doesn't sing either, he just talks in a monotone on those songs. He should stick to what he does best and play those drums.

[secret love]

Originally Posted by Autumn Ocean

Christine. She's basically rewritten the same song her entire career, a greeting card set to a doorbell chime. She might be the most consistent but she's also the most risk averse.

Lol!!!

[MoonSister75]

Ok I'm trying to be more open-minded about this thread. But every time I read the question "who is the least talented?" I just get stuck. I honestly believe all 3 of these people are extremely talented singer/songwriters. I still can't vote.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Why?

"Singer-songwriters are musicians who write, compose and perform their own musical material including lyrics and melodies."

Does the guitar and piano not cut it? Or do you have to have a certain level of skill before someone gets a pass mark on their ability to play and it's counted? She can write, compose and perform her material - see her demos. No, they're not as 'complete' as when someone like Lindsey has worked on them. No, they're not as complex when she's the one playing a demo. No, they'll never have a number of unexpected chord changes. But they're songs. And she's written them. And often she's written the music too, even at a fundamental, more basic level.

It's very difficult to really define and measure "talent", which is one of the reasons I find this thread somewhat exciting/interesting. If we're just speaking purely in amounts of talent, I mean... let's face it, being a guitar prodigy requires more talent than banging a tambourine and having rudimentary piano skills with the white keys. It just does. If you disagree, ok, but in answer to the OPs question I think its fair to say that the tambourine player of a band is probably less musically talented than the lead guitarist.

But it's as elle says. A very abstract concept that isn't necessarily going to equate to a sum of measurable parts.

If you wanted to argue that composing haunting/compelling melodies with comparatively little musical knowledge was indicative of talent in another form, I think you'd be making a great case for Stevie there.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by secret love

Mick doesn't sing either, he just talks in a monotone on those songs.

Well, you wouldn't say that to Lou Reed! It's the poet that I am!!!

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by annabellee

Is the purpose of this thread to bully?

Seriously? You diminish the seriousness of the term by applying it to a poll that merely asks you for your opinion.

Why do so many people choose to participate in a discussion they say they have no interest in participating only to put down the very idea of participating? It seems like such a waste of energy based on an almost pathological insistence on being outraged over something you don't like.

Why does everything have to be positive? Is this the product of the "everybody is a winner" culture? A ribbon for participating, even if you come in last?

You can't win if everybody is a winner.

[RockawayBlind]

Now, to the point of the thread: I wouldn't say any of them is more talented than the other. We all know their strengths and weaknesses. Christine ultimately may be a better musician than Lindsey, but he is a mad genius on many levels. Stevie may have had the most appealing voice early on and wrote some great lyrics, but Lindsey has matched -- even surpassed -- her lyric-writing prowess. And Christine wrote some bland, easy-rhyming types of songs but she is still a terrific singer who wrote some of the most catchy material the band has released.

[Dex]

Personally, I'm flattered by the implication that I'd ever be in a position to "bully" any of the members of FM.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

Now, to the point of the thread: I wouldn't say any of them is more talented than the other. We all know their strengths and weaknesses. Christine ultimately may be a better musician than Lindsey, but he is a mad genius on many levels. Stevie may have had the most appealing voice early on and wrote some great lyrics, but Lindsey has matched -- even surpassed -- her lyric-writing prowess. And Christine wrote some bland, easy-rhyming types of songs but she is still a terrific singer who wrote some of the most catchy material the band has released.

They may complement each other within the band, but I don't think that means they are equally as talented. Stevie couldn't go and make a solo album just by herself. She needs help to do that. Lindsey's pretty much already done that. There's not a whole lot Stevie can do that others can't do except sound like Stevie Nicks and perform like Stevie Nicks on stage. But the others sound and perform uniquely like themselves too so that basically cancels out. Her talents are unique and irreplaceable...but that goes into importance of said talent and not how much of it there is....if we're trying to quantify talent level I would place Stevie at the bottom.