Stevie & Lindsey Intimacy

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think people reveal the truth in their lies. So, the things they choose to lie about are actually very instructive and important. However, no two people are going to agree on what is the lie and what the truth is.

Amen to that. What they choose to:
- talk about when not asked or prompted (and it doesn't 'fit')
- lie about, especially over a long period of time
- omit from accounts
- discuss in the exact same terms consistently with NO change
interests me a lot. And yeah, we unfortunately often have no objective way of knowing which is the lie and which is the truth.

Originally Posted by michelej1

But I see them as inextricable. I think people revert to their past behaviors often. You can go awhile without it happening, but like a rubber band, the past only lets you go so far before it snaps you right back and old hurts, old attitudes and old anger start cropping up again. I think this last tour went extremely well for the most part, but I wouldn't be surprised if their relationship takes two steps back now.

Oh, no, absolutely, I agree. They are. The past impacts the present and the future, and the past colours the way things are and will be no matter how many times they might claim the 'baggage' has gone. They're always able to build and discover more baggage, apparently. I wouldn't be surprised if they *SAY* they relationship has taken two steps back now but I don't think it actually will. Having a few arguments isn't taking steps back, I don't think. Every couple has arguments and even heavy fights. I have hopes that they won't persist in their predictable pattern of 'happy to tour-end tour-we fought-we had a talk-reconciliation-happy to tour', etc, based on a change in approach I thought occurred from after Unleashed but you never know. Even if they don't create new drama to cause trouble between them, the media can be relied upon to create it itself by dragging up OLD, OLD stories yet again.

Originally Posted by michelej1

As for songs, I think those like Sara and Tusk are about several things and people. Don gets a verse. Mick. Jess. OJ. I think there are many songs that are amorphous like that. But I also think there are songs that are about two people. I consider, Show You How, for instance, as one of those. I think it's about Stevie, but I think it's about Kristen too. I think Stevie is the shadow singer, for sure, but I don't think of her as also the one who shows him what it's all about when the lights go out. I see him as thanking Kristen for showing him that there's a life beyond the stage curtain. So, I see the song as being both about an addiction to Stevie, deep, lingering in places where no one ever goes. But I think it's also about realizing a world after that and being pulled out of the abyss, away from the spectre.

Yes, there are definitely songs that are an amalgamation. Lindsey's said as much that some of Stevie's that he thought were about him were like that. I don't think it's necessarily as clear-cut as 'one verse for you, one verse for YOU'. She said that about Say You Will and I don't buy her entire explanation - the narrative of the song doesn't really support that even if she WAS thinking in general terms or about several people throughout.

Ah, Show You How is interesting. I USED to think that. However, I actually lean more towards a view I now have about Cast Away Dreams - WHY force it to be about two women when it can easily be about one if you don't insist on taking his explanations as the gospel truth? I mean, the shadow singer reference (and lingering again, bless) is fairly clear and I can see why the 'show you how' could easily be read as being about Kristen. However, we then come to an exact repetition within It Takes Time (and a near repetition in In Our Own Time) which we KNOW is about Stevie.

Slow down, baby
Cross that line
If you want to save me
It takes time

She says slow down baby,
Slow down now

We crossed the line
From the fire we will rise again
In our own time

We have a small issue here, however. In Show You How, the woman is telling the man to 'slow down, baby'. So is it fair to say the same is true in It Takes Time? That the woman is telling the man to cross that line if he wants to be saved then? Or maybe it's all coincidence and not deliberate. In Show You How, we also have him waking from a dream to find his other half. In Cast Away Dreams, we have dancing on those dreams. And yet we have like THREE references to waking up from a dream, to her being in them, on SWS and yet another on the EP. I don't know how well those wishes that died stayed buried, lol.

Originally Posted by michelej1

The saving idea is a martyr's fantasy. I mean, I'd like to know how often he was really like the protagonist in Under the Skin. Probably, not as frequently as he'd like to think. Or someone's got to sacrifice if the thing is going to turn out right. It's a theme repeated, but how often are sacrifices really made?

Ha, yep. Lindsey likes to hang himself up on that damn cross, and Stevie likes to romanticise romance. Yeah, judging from quite a number of comments he's made about realising he could've helped more, made better choices, etc, not as much as he'd like. But I adore the sentiment in UTS so very much and he does come back to it on SWS as well. It's hard for us to really know how much sacrifice gets made, how much care and protecting is taken. We only see a very small portion of their life/lives and it's filtered and selected.

Originally Posted by michelej1

But yes, I think they both put themselves in the role of savior more often than they deserve to be. As for Lindsey wanting to be saved, sure. In fact, I see lines like "I fall down I get up" or "we fall down, we get up" as a wish for resiliency in relationships that was too often lacking. Let's push through this breach. Let's take a drink from the loving cup and mend the friction. I think it's another way of saying "save us."

Yeah, perhaps that's true and certainly I agree on the idea of resilience - he persists. The 'falling' idea is a pretty consistently re-occurring one and not just in terms of 'falling in love', yes. I always found the turning to each other for the 'not all the prayers in the world can save us' during the Unleashed tour very effective, too, as are the extension of the 'saving' lyrics in GDW.

I wake up / But only to fall
I did a good job of falling, so good I can't win / Every time I try to let it go, it keeps comin' back again
When the road gets rough / I fall down / I get up
Agony's torn at my heart too long / So afraid / Slip and I fall and I die
We fall down, we get hurt, / We get up, and take a drink from the loving cup
Do you still tremble when I fall?
Now fall down onto your knees / show us all what you can do
We fall to earth together / The crowd’s calling out for more
I fall down, I get up and I've always had to fight / Everything that was wrong for the things that were right
What makes you think I'm the one / Who will catch you when you're fallin'?
I can jump right off and fall right into the ocean / I can come right out mean just what I say
Now she's laughing / Now she's falling

Two children too blind to see / I would fall in your shadow...I believe
When they fall / And they can't stand up in the darkness
Find yourself somebody new / To catch you when you fall*
But the ground is further than I thought / I'm afraid of falling, this is a strange feeling
All the looks that you've used on me / Don't work now that you've fallen, fallen, fallen
But you can't keep her / And you can't catch her fall
Too uncertain to fall together / To remain, to be true
Sometimes to turn away from you / And not even fall
I am older now / But I still remember / I took the greatest fall
Sometimes I feel like I was always on-call / Sometimes even I am allowed to fall
Lie down and you fall face-down / And you wonder why you must go on
You fall to your knees / You embrace the storm

Originally Posted by michelej1

As you said, it's sometimes someone else speaking or two people speaking and it's not clear which one is talking, from line to line.

So, I don't really see Gone Too Far as a "save" song. But "Someone's got to set you free" or "Deep Down There is Freedom" or "I'll come back to get you," yes, I see those as all saying, at the end of this, I'll rescue you.

Very cheeky habit of theirs! And sometimes the markers which make it clear and delineate who is talking when are hidden by the time the song makes it from it's demo form ala Sara.

Said "Sara, you're the poet in my heart"
Never change... never stop

He cried Sara... you're the poet in my heart
Never change... never stop

They'll sometimes not just quote someone else, or change POVs or write out a conversation without any of the verbal markers, lol.

Originally Posted by michelej1

I always imagine the conversation, "Well, I'm going home on the bus. You have the car, so you take Ginny," as being more of the planning as a team that they should have been doing and if they had, one of them wouldn't have always have been blowing up, slamming the door and running out. That kind of 'you do this and I'll do that and we'll acommplish X' is something that they don't seem to have worked out very well in all these decades. Instead, they call their managers and write songs about it. The musical love hampers and strangled the other, because it became the default mode of communication.

And I think there would have still been that blowing up, unfortunately, because they didn't address some of the underlying issues they had. However, before Fleetwood Mac I think they were more 'normal' in terms of conversation and interaction and so on. Yes, the songs were even then used to express what they probably couldn't and didn't say out loud to the other person but they weren't 100% dysfunction. Everytime they're promoting a new tour they discuss this 'we've talked' thing - they're always having a talk or the talk or finally addressing things.

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think they've shared a great amount. I just don't think they have much in common.

To me, even in Stevie's re-creation of her Rhiannon conversation with Lindsey "isn't that a pretty name? Yes Stevie, it is a pretty name," that Lindsey is thinking to himself, "what in the devil?" I mean, that's not even the real Lindsey. It's Stevie's impersonation of Lindsey and I don't think even the impersonation is that interested in her whimsy.

Yes to the first point and I'm still unsure on the second. I mean, how much does one NEED to have in common? I certainly don't think it's a case of 'opposites attract' for them. They're not opposites. I also think they sometimes play up the differences, in truth. Lindsey likes to bang on about how they like different musical styles and grew apart in that arena. So, Lindsey, did you like Stevie's cover of Crash Into Me or only when you saw Dave Matthews perform it live? Yes, they have different views, different tastes, different attitudes but I don't see that as some insurmountable issue in any way. Besides, it can be fun trying to convince the other person to like what you like. Keep verbally swapping Katy Perry song lyrics onstage, guys.

Originally Posted by michelej1

On the other hand, when they did Soldier's Angel together, I kind of fantasize that they had discussions about politics and probably agreed. So, I think they can relate on some level about things outside of music. I just don't think they can share as much as she did with Dave Stewart. And even though she was with Dave to record an album, the daily dinners she described, the dressing up, the parties, even the theatrical way they posed in all of those pictures together (pictures I did not want Dave in) revealed two people who mesh psychologically. I don't think she has that with Lindsey, although she does with Mick. Of course, she and Dave can't create what she and Lindsey did, in my book, but I think they could have a marriage.

It ends up coming down to the idea of change and meeting in the middle and compromise - are you willing to do that? At what point? What sacrifices might you have to make? Are you trying to change? How important is it to you? These differences may be fundamental to personality (introvert versus extrovert, perfectionist studio rat versus positive atmosphere please, etc) but, while that causes arguments, it also works in their favour as well, I think. Stevie talked about, in terms of her and Dave writing together, Lennon and McCartney, that one person has strengths where the other is weak and vice versa and that strengthens the end product. And that's all true (though it's not true that they wrote like Lennon McCartney, and she recycled her spiel about never having written like this before from like 1983 and experiences with Sandy Stewart, IIRC). I think it also applies to SnL, even if unacknowledged some of the time.

The relationships are just different. And Stevie, as she says, won't get closer to marriage than what she had with Lindsey. The fact that they're how they are as of this year after all this time is sufficient for me to think their bond (whatever it is) is pretty unbreakable now.

Originally Posted by michelej1

And when Lindsey had Stevie over to his house and showed her his family, I think he wanted to kind of give her the fun she had talked about having with Dave, but it's not going to be the same, precisely because I do think she looks at Lindsey's children as hers, potentially and with the pleasure of being around them that she takes in all kids, especially girls, comes a little pain when his daughters are involved.

I was at the concert when she announced Stella's birth after their break. And she was about to say "we" had a baby, but she changed it and I thought it was adorable -- and a little heart-tugging.

Hmm, perhaps. He certainly knew without her talking what that experience was like for her seeing as he talked a few times about spending quite a lot of time with her while she made that album. He also contrasted it to the more negative experiences she'd had prior to that. I would imagine he can't provide that same atmosphere but he can provide something she wants and needs. She actually used to talk more about the kids - their sports, personalities (Will quiet, though? Obviously she HASN'T seen his online presence...), etc - but that got shut down a little at some point. But yes, she does have an 'odd' sense of ownership of them which I find bittersweet. And kind of hilarious - yep, Stevie hold onto your other half's hand and chat about his lovely wife and how you get his kids too. He doesn't even blink, lol.

Oh, sweet. That would've been an amazing concert to go to. I think I almost ruined my eardrums trying to hear exactly what SnL were saying during the 'guitars not working - let's do push ups instead' kerfuffle. But yes, I found that dedication to Stella ENTIRELY adorable. She wasn't ABOUT to say 'we'; she actually did say it before amending it to 'they', lol. She was proper happy and they were pretty affectionate, though, which was nice to see (gotta love her being the one to swap roles and kiss HIS hand after Landslide for a change).

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Ah, Show You How is interesting. I USED to think that. However, I actually lean more towards a view I now have about Cast Away Dreams - WHY force it to be about two women when it can easily be about one if you don't insist on taking his explanations as the gospel truth? I mean, the shadow singer reference (and lingering again, bless) is fairly clear and I can see why the 'show you how' could easily be read as being about Kristen. However, we then come to an exact repetition within It Takes Time (and a near repetition in In Our Own Time) which we KNOW is about Stevie.

I formed my opinion of "Show You How" long before Lindsey said anything about it. Three songs were released as a preview and when I heard that one, I immediately decided what it meant to me, even though there were some words that I misheard until I got the lyric sheet.

I don't think it's about two people because of anything Lindsey has said. I think it's about two people because he seems to be talking to someone who intervened in his life, someone new. He was a madman out of a badman's route looking for paradise. I take that to mean looking for casual sex, when he was introduced into something more permanent.

It Takes Time doesn't change my view of the first song. If anything, that's where I don't take Lindsey literally. Yes, it's about Stevie, but I don't think that's all It Takes Time is about. I still don't think Stevie's the one who wants to save him -- or change him, pull him out and away from the fire that consumed him before.

Originally Posted by nicole21290

In Show You How, we also have him waking from a dream to find his other half. In Cast Away Dreams, we have dancing on those dreams. And yet we have like THREE references to waking up from a dream, to her being in them, on SWS and yet another on the EP. I don't know how well those wishes that died stayed buried, lol.

I like the waking from a dream. And Treason is the same. Although, he's not dreaming there, necessarily. He's underwater, drowning (now that's familiar!) and it's almost as if he's saved just before being overcome by her face full of grace, searching for me. And I also like "grace". Lindsey has used it forever (EOTW), but after FFG, when he uses it again, it seemed to take on a deeper meaning. It's the same thing with faith. I've shaken your faith in me? No, you've shaken it in everything else. Then, "I have no faith today."

Now, "I have no faith today" is an example of what you said about a phrase taking on extra meaning, because it comes out of nowhere and isn't connected to the rest of the verse. Also, "long live the queen" is like that.

As for the waking from a dream, Gone Too Far reminds me of an interview Stevie gave and she said she often wakes from sleep to hear FM and she doesn't recognize it is FM by the singing, she groggily recognizes the band through the rhythm section. Gone Too Far put an image in my head of Stevie roused from sleep, not by FM, but by a Lindsey song that is less familiar to her and gradually recognizing his guitar or his voice. The sound of my voice will haunt you.

Before UTS was released, we just had the song titles and it was fun to look at them and try to guess what the songs would be about. Well, with CAD because of Gift of Screws, I thought Lindsey might also be familiar with a poem by Susan Dickinson and I thought that CAD might borrow from it. In the end, it did not. But it was still fun reading that poem in relationship to Lindsey and, in fact, I do find themes from it run through his SWS album.

Hyssop

Lives burned by grief and sin,
Barred close from warmth and light
Visions of beauty win,
Thro fancy's magic night.

Spent souls at close of fray
Shorn of all gifts but pain.
Shrink from the narrow Way -
And gaze at day again -

In thews of grinding ice.
Fast in its death cold seams,
Of warmth and sunny skies,
The Arctic castaway dreams.

No instant's flash & gleam,
No brief reprieve from pain,
Or lapse in honey dazey dream
For those whom Love hath slain

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Yes to the first point and I'm still unsure on the second. I mean, how much does one NEED to have in common?

You don't need to have a lot in common, but I think you have to not think the other person's interests are boring and stupid. I don't think they much respect the other's journeys or processes. In DR when they sat across from John it was funny because it was like he was thinking, "I love them, but they're silly. I need to get to my boat." And they were together, almost looking at themselves from his perspective. But I also think they sit opposite of each other like that. I think they like some of the other's end result, but I don't think they appreciate how the other person gets there, which is fine for them professionally, but I don't think it works day in and day out when you're sharing other parts of a person's life. I think it leads to impatience and friction.

No, I don't think it's a case of opposites attracting because, because aside from physical attraction, I don't think they are particularly attracted to each other, not at a personality level. But when they're both in good humor? Yes, I guess. I don't know how often that happens, though, because I think a laugh can pretty quickly turn to annoyance when you think you're being laughed at and not with.

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Hmm, perhaps. He certainly knew without her talking what that experience was like for her seeing as he talked a few times about spending quite a lot of time with her while she made that album.

She certainly talked about the visit and the bunker a lot, but I don't know how it actually felt. I will be shocked if they (well her, not Christine, Mick and John) use his house for recording, if they do indeed go back into the studio in March.

The first time I saw Will at a concert, he was about 7 and he was finding kids he knew and telling them to come backstage. Kristen was chasing after him, tracing the kids' parents and making sure it was all right with the adult if the child went backstage. I got the impression that Will was a mini social magnet.

As for Madison, here's what I wrote down about that part, years back:

SAY GOODBYE: Lovely -- not the song -- the instrumental failure. Great fun. Lindsey did his little speech for Say Goodbye, but then something happened with his guitar. He goes to the side to fix it, saying that this is a lesson in "earn while you learn."

Stevie pretends that she's going to do a little tap dance. When he comes back he begs Ray just to tell him he's ok. Ray walks over and says that he's ok to play again and Lindsey pats him. Lindsey says that Ray is his long time friend and assistant whose last name is Lindsay. "Isn't that weird?" Stevie says "It is weird." Reminiscent of the conversation he had with Christine on the The Dance video. Lindsey is easily weirded out. He must not get out much. He thinks the most common things are singular. Anyway, he says that in all fairness it is not Ray's fault because this is the first night of their tour and there are bound to be problems. He tells Ray there will be a $50 fine. He prepares to start Say Goodbye again and turns to Stevie again, but says that the tender moment is gone. He says the audience should have pity, while they try to recapture the mood. She laughs and says they should try to be serious again and regain their composure. He starts playing and the guitar goes out again. Many giggles from Stevie. Lindsey lays on the floor. She says that Lindsey is just going to take a little nap. He starts doing sit ups and then he turns on his stomach and does push ups. Stevie says, "I had no idea you could do that." Gee, that doesnt' say much about their sex life, if she had no idea. Shedding new light on why things started falling apart 30 years ago . . . She tells him, "I am so proud of you." After the push ups, Lindsey is on his knees, pretending to be too fatigued to stand up by himself. Stevie hugs him, caresses his face, kisses his hand and "helps" him off the floor. She says that this is not the first time she and Lindsey have been on stage when nothing worked. She said they started this back in 1968 and some nights ALL the equipment failed "and look where we are today".

It is heady to imagine that 36 years ago Lindsey, Stevie, and the rest of Fritz were on some small stage somewhere performing. I think I’d love Stevie and Lindsey for their history alone. The temperamental guitar finally allows them to perform Say Goodbye. It seems to me that Lindsey has tried to extend the "scheme within a scheme" part, by saying the words more slowly, with great inflection. Honestly, the last thing that song needed was stretching. But the intro to it was so adorable this time that I forgive him.

RED ROVER: Mick and Taku come out onto the stage to great applause. Lindsey gives the speech about the gods looking down on earth and wondering what it has become. He says that it sounds like a cynical song, but it's really very tender. He starts playing and the guitar goes out again. Stevie laughs and says, "OK Mick. It's your turn now." Mick comes out and says that he's glad he has this chance to tell us a little story. He says, "it gets me away from having to sit on that box." He and Taku were sitting on boxes playing -- well, I don't know one type of drum from the other. They were not playing bongos. They were playing flat things and Taku was shaking a silver thing too. Starting his story, Mick says once there was this car riding down the street. It stopped and out came 3 broken guitars. He says that Lindsey Buckingham deserves a medal.

After consulting with Lindsey first, Stevie says that she wants to give the audience a little history. This isn't really their first show. They did 106 shows in the U. S., Europe, etc. and then they took a 2 month break. They rehearsed for 3 weeks, but the last 3 weeks they haven't rehearsed because Lindsey Buckingham had a baby girl named Stella. She says they had to take 3 weeks off "so we, they, could have baby Stella." So, they didn't finish their rehearsals and that's why there have been a few technical glitches. She says, in light thereof, they must dedicate this show to Baby Stella. Much applause.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

We have a small issue here, however. In Show You How, the woman is telling the man to 'slow down, baby'. So is it fair to say the same is true in It Takes Time? That the woman is telling the man to cross that line if he wants to be saved then? Or maybe it's all coincidence and not deliberate. In Show You How, we also have him waking from a dream to find his other half.

I also wanted to add how much I'm moved by the idea of being lost or wandering, searching for something and then finding it and learning that the other person has been searching exactly for you as well.

I find the Hold Me video very poignant because of this. And also the outstretched hands in the SYW cd insert say the same thing for me. You're reaching and you don't even know there's anything there. You have no assurance that there is. And then you find it and they were reaching too, looking for you. It's a lovely sentiment.

Michele

[Rumour0323]

I don't think you can underestimate the impact of how, what they say now, affects his children. They are going to come across this stuff someday and I think that both of them choose their words a little more wisely now in light of that.

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by Rumour0323

I don't think you can underestimate the impact of how, what they say now, affects his children. They are going to come across this stuff someday and I think that both of them choose their words a little more wisely now in light of that.

Lindsey might be a little wiser in terms of giving interviews saying things that might affect them in that way, but Stevie still comes out with howlers that totally serve to undermine any emotional significance to Lindsey's marriage and the irrelevance of that to their own relationship. Who they are to each other will never change? It doesn't matter that he's married? When one of them dies at 90, the other will be sat on the bed alone?

They both certainly understands how the children change/d things, though.

STEVIE: He's in love again. He's in love with these children. We have been very spoiled rotten rock 'n' roll stars and so those little children make it most impossible to continue to be the way that we were.

Do you realise that a lot of women secretly hope that you and Stevie somehow reconcile and then onstage you announce that you're going out again?
LINDSEY: Well. You know. Uh, I mean, it's funny, you know, when Stevie and I, when we toured in 2003 there was still a little polarity going on and then we toured in 2009 and it was kind of neutral and now, uh, onstage, you know, between Stevie and me, it's kind of a lovefest. But, you know, uh, the idea of actually on a personal level getting back together is just, I mean, I have three children now so, you know, that's, it's not, that's not going to happen.

[elle]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

but Stevie still comes out with howlers that totally serve to undermine any emotional significance to Lindsey's marriage and the irrelevance of that to their own relationship.

well, Lindsey is not the only man whose marriage she ignores when talking about whatever her relationship with him may be, whether in the past or future or what she says is just her perception or actually a reality.

Nicks is either oblivious or deliberately ignores marriages, wives, or children of various men throughout her life when she talks about them, regardless of whether they were married at the time they had affairs with her. Joe Walsh comes to mind - at the time when he was supposedly the greatest love of her life, he was married with a new baby. of course cheating while on the road was really his problem and not exactly hers, but still, someone like his daughter who was born right before that affair started may not particularly enjoy putting exact timeframe on it and dragging it out into public discussions years later.

[Rumour0323]

Oh I agree, I either read or saw an interview a few weeks back, where she said something to the effect of, well in ten years his kids will be gone, they'll all be gone and so who know....

I'm paraphrasing of course, but she totally left out the part that the wife would still be in the picture. I know that she totally dismisses that marriage. I just was saying with regards to the ongoing discussion of whether or not you can believe the "quotes" that have been posted, that I think it's skewed even moreso now that the kids are teenagers and could be starting to hear more about what is being said from their access to all of the social media. Even though I am certain they have been well schooled in the "it's all for show" schtick.

I agree with whoever said above that the story changes depending on the wind. I think her most significant song of late is You May Be the One. That one song covers the rekindling of the affair during the dance, Kristen getting pregnant with Will "the kiss right out there in the universe" and then the fight afther the recording of SYW. Yet she still says in 2011 "how it's lasted so long is a mystery to me." Crazy stuff, I am sure cleverly crafted to keep us guessing. Lindsey tells us straight up that she is the Queen of the Underground.

It's the best soap opera out there that's for sure.

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I agree with you and I think there is beauty in the long, fabled and invincible nature of the love they do have. When Stevie told Courtney that Lindsey was her musical love, I think she was accurate. I think the music has given them a lasting relationship that would have ended a long time ago, had they not been in this band together. If BN had been a hit, then that music would have kept them together, but I don't know if BN would have had the staying power that FM has had. But if there was no music, then I don't think there would have been any couple for very long. 1975 could have been the end of something instead of the beginning.

But this musical love, this level of communication, I guess it's frustrating at times, because if there's no music, then how else can you relate? I think that with Stevie and Lindsey and the FM members in general, you have this great love, but no real way of expressing it, except when you're creating music. And they feel "I've shared so much with this person, how is it that we can have nothing to talk about, if it's not a demo?"

So, the connection may seem attenuated at times because it's not based on the traditional exchanges that most relationships are, but in reality, it's something that has endured longer than many romantic loves. Longer than the love they had outside of the music, when they were living together. Because I don't think that was taking them very far. But because of FM, I think it has evolved into something bigger. Sex and passion are not more. They're just different. I think what they do have is more.

In fact, I think that's what Lindsey has wanted to preserve since the SYW album started. It's like, I've known her since I was 16, we should be able to get along. And that he's wanted the need to argue with and hurt each other with words to finally stop. Just because this is not the person you're sleeping with or could have built a home and a family with does not mean they're not your partner. And it's possible to have that partnership and rejoice in it and have outgrown the yearning for something else.

Michele

I really like your description of SnL's relationship . I see a real beauty in the love that they do have now, and everything they have experienced together has resulted in some fantastic music! I'm not 100% convinced that they have outgrown the yearning for something else, but I do think they probably realise they are better off apart.

[MoonSister75]

Originally Posted by Rumour0323

Oh I agree, I either read or saw an interview a few weeks back, where she said something to the effect of, well in ten years his kids will be gone, they'll all be gone and so who know....

So you read or heard her say this in an interview too? I mentioned this quote on here, in early January, but I couldn't remember where I'd read or heard it. I watched a huge amount of Stevie interviews on you-tube last year, and have no idea which one it was on. Do you know which interview it was? Thanks

[MoonSister75]

I just stumbled across this, and it has a beautiful piano cover of Gypsy.

[Rumour0323]

Originally Posted by MoonSister75

So you read or heard her say this in an interview too? I mentioned this quote on here, in early January, but I couldn't remember where I'd read or heard it. I watched a huge amount of Stevie interviews on you-tube last year, and have no idea which one it was on. Do you know which interview it was? Thanks

No I'm sorry I don't. I was doing the same thing. I was looking for something and watched like 50 interviews. I want to say it was the ones that she did in 2009 in Australia, but she was pretty angry in those so I'm not sure. Sorry.

I was struck at how matter of factly she states sometimes that at some point in the future they will be together. Somewhere else she made the statement about them moving back to SF, not her, them!! Very strange.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by elle

well, Lindsey is not the only man whose marriage she ignores when talking about whatever her relationship with him may be, whether in the past or future or what she says is just her perception or actually a reality.

Nicks is either oblivious or deliberately ignores marriages, wives, or children of various men throughout her life when she talks about them, regardless of whether they were married at the time they had affairs with her. Joe Walsh comes to mind - at the time when he was supposedly the greatest love of her life, he was married with a new baby. of course cheating while on the road was really his problem and not exactly hers, but still, someone like his daughter who was born right before that affair started may not particularly enjoy putting exact time frame on it and dragging it out into public discussions years later.

Well, I think Stevie does care.. in her own sort of way. Sometimes she'll even make a point to say, "Lindsey's wife is cool with it," etc., like she did regarding her saying he was her muse. So no, I don't think she's oblivious, nor do I think she's deliberately being malicious. I just think Stevie has a very singular perspective on the people she has dated and it doesn't always register that some of the things she says might be considered inappropriate/inconsiderate (and you know, a lot of those quotes are from text interviews and not video/audio interviews, so it's possible that the bluntness of them is the result of the transcription and that they might have come off differently if we actually heard her say it). I do think she generally attempts wait it out before she talks about stuff... like, we've never even heard of Derek Taylor (who had been married for what, 20 years? at the time they had their affair) until this past year even though that relationship happened in the late 70s. She tells the stories when she feels that it's been so long it's bound to be okay to bring it up (not to say the other parties would necessarily agree). She actually said recently that she'd have to wait to write a book until Don and Lindsey's wives wouldn't care what she said

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