Homosexuality is illegal in Russia

[Jondalar]

I must be living under a rock. I just heard this and I heard that the Obamas are protesting the olympics. This smacks of nazism to me. I don't get it. The year is 2013, not 1913. Do people ever learn? Totally grossed out about this.

[Dex]

It's not "2013" everywhere in the world, sadly. There are many gay-unfriendly places where much progress has yet to be made on the LGBT-acceptance front. But I'm encouraged by the fact that really, LGBT people have only lived openly even in western society for about 50 years or so, and look how much has changed in that relatively short amount of time. Russia will get there eventually too.

But yes, their recent implementation of a law prohibiting "gay propaganda" (which really seems to mean basically anything up to and including a gay person breathing) is, in a word, a cluster****.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by Dex

But yes, their recent implementation of a law prohibiting "gay propaganda" (which really seems to mean basically anything up to and including a gay person breathing) is, in a word, a cluster****.

the supposed "gay propaganda" is illegal, but otherwise homosexuality is NOT illegal in Russia, however there are African countries where being gay is indeed illegal, and these countries have sent people to prison for being gay...some have even wanted to execute people for being gay in these African countries...Very sad but very true.

The irony with the coming Winter Olympics is that Sochi is the "San Francisco" for gays in Russia, but most here in the US do not know that.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

the supposed "gay propaganda" is illegal, but otherwise homosexuality is NOT illegal in Russia, however there are African countries where being gay is indeed illegal, and these countries have sent people to prison for being gay...some have even wanted to execute people for being gay in these African countries...Very sad but very true.

The irony with the coming Winter Olympics is that Sochi is the "San Francisco" for gays in Russia, but most here in the US do not know that.

It's not just African countries. Jamaica and Belize are other examples. Singapore I believe as well. It's actually pretty common among countries which formerly belonged to the British Empire and haven't felt the inclination to update their laws.

Same-sex sex may not be illegal in Russia, but gay propaganda is so poorly defined in this new law, and does seem to include anyone openly saying that they are gay. Which to me amounts to homosexuality being illegal. Nobody can effectively legally prohibit actual same-sex attraction, but prohibiting the statement of such attraction is, to me, the closest thing possible.

[KarmaContestant]

After the law was implemented, Madonna was in St. Petersburg on tour and was threatened with fines and possible arrest if she broke the law by spreading 'gay propaganda' at her concert.

Guess it's Gaga, too.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertai...ent-in-russia/

[Jondalar]

I just find the whole thing to be really odd. It's 2014. We are in the information age. Certainly, homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation may not be decided until one is 5 years old or maybe at birth, but once its decided, it's decided.

To me, this just shows that human beings are still ready for another Hitler and there has been little growth at all.

There have always been homosexual people because some people were mean't to be homosexuals.

[TrueFaith77]

My knowledge on this topic is limited. My understanding is that the laws referred to do not ban homosexuality but rather ban propoganda aimed at or distributed to minors that promote alternative sexual lifestyles (other than the married procreative heterosexual norm). Russia has a real population decrease problem. I think that is the "rationale" behind these laws; plus Putin has, in my theory, been recognizing that Russia's Orthodox religious heritage can replace the Soviet myths that once held together the country.

If there is more to the laws (such as a ban on all gay "propoganda" or a ban on certain sexual practices or on assembly of effeminate males at places that serve alcohol (as FDR instituted in the US), I just don't have a resource to determine this--but please share here if y'all know).

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

There have always been homosexual people because some people were mean't to be homosexuals.

Were you intending to write heterosexuals?

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by vivfox

Were you intending to write heterosexuals?

No just saying it is part of the order of things and natural. Not a choice.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

No just saying it is part of the order of things and natural. Not a choice.

I'm not one of those people who believe that homosexuality (or any other type of sexuality) is necessarily a genetic pre-disposition. I believe at least most of the time, sexuality is shaped by our experiences (and they might be experiences in childhood). It doesn't mean that people consciously choose a sexuality, it is just that we don't generally start out gay or straight. Perhaps it is just because we choose to put labels on things that causes the issues, I'm not sure why we feel the need to classify people into straight, gay, bi etc.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

My knowledge on this topic is limited. My understanding is that the laws referred to do not ban homosexuality but rather ban propoganda aimed at or distributed to minors that promote alternative sexual lifestyles (other than the married procreative heterosexual norm). Russia has a real population decrease problem. I think that is the "rationale" behind these laws; plus Putin has, in my theory, been recognizing that Russia's Orthodox religious heritage can replace the Soviet myths that once held together the country.

I think you have the letter of the law, right. It's just that in practice it is much more dangerous than it sounds in those words. Indeed, what is "gay propaganda" really? And what does it mean to "distribute it to minors"? Nobody was ever handing out leaflets to schoolchildren with smiling men saying "I took it up the ass and now every day is an A+!" It seems like any acknowledgement of homosexuality as being not completely awful in any context a minor could possibly ever encounter it could fall under this legal ban. But I agree, we really need someone who is experiencing it first-hand to give us more insight into the realities at the moment.

Your theory about rallying the population around the Orthodox church is an interesting one, and makes sense. I hope nobody is even attempting to frame this as a method of tackling the population decrease problem, though. Because to do so would be completely insane. And also show Putin as having demonstrably horrendous problem-solving skills.

Originally Posted by chriskisn

I'm not one of those people who believe that homosexuality (or any other type of sexuality) is necessarily a genetic pre-disposition. I believe at least most of the time, sexuality is shaped by our experiences (and they might be experiences in childhood).

Well, I'd never want to say never, as the field of human psychology is still very much in its baby steps. But really, social scientists have enthusiastically tried to establish a causal link between postnatal environment and sexual orientation for over a hundred years, and still haven't come up with literally anything. The prenatal-environment theories seem to be the ones that are coming up with the goods to back themselves up, however I'm sure there is a complex array of causes involved.

If you're speaking about sexuality more generally, and beyond sexual orientation, then I agree that there could easily be early-life environmental factors, but the whole thing is still a big mystery to us all.

Perhaps it is just because we choose to put labels on things that causes the issues, I'm not sure why we feel the need to classify people into straight, gay, bi etc.

I hear this aversion to labels a lot, and while I think it sounds rather lovely on paper, in practice I really don't get what's so wrong with a label. Especially when it comes to issues of love and sexuality, which are such a major part of adult life in most of the world. These "labels" are just quick ways of acknowledging which gender an individual is predominantly attracted to. Which is valuable information for those of us who want to have a clue what's going on with people. For example, I like a guy, find out he identifies as straight, I move on happily. If he instead says "Oh, I'm not into labels, but I'm really just not very attracted to you even slightly" I can't help but feel a little bit stung, and maybe a bit irritated at how deliberately obtuse he's being. Labels can be pretty awesome, IMO.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by Dex

For example, I like a guy, find out he identifies as straight, I move on happily.

I never give up that easily.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

I'm not one of those people who believe that homosexuality (or any other type of sexuality) is necessarily a genetic pre-disposition. I believe at least most of the time, sexuality is shaped by our experiences (and they might be experiences in childhood). It doesn't mean that people consciously choose a sexuality, it is just that we don't generally start out gay or straight. Perhaps it is just because we choose to put labels on things that causes the issues, I'm not sure why we feel the need to classify people into straight, gay, bi etc.

These are interesting words coming from a person whose sig pic for a long time said something about Str8 people keep having Gay children so why blame Gays for being Gay.

[becca]

I think in Russia, as they used to in the west, they believe homosexuality to be caused by exposure somehow. As Dex says though, there is little science to back anything like that up, but there is hard evidence to show via brain scans or womb conditions that it is prenatally inherent. Personally I see it as a condition of the body and not so much spiritual... the real spiritual aspect to me is the amazing stories of people overcoming often horrendous obstacles to be true to themselves. Sure, you can force someone to act straight, but the problem is it's an act. You have to understand that in America in the past they used to go as far as shock-treatment and lobotomy and that still didn't cure anybody, just made them incapable of practicing anything at 'best'.

I think Russia is simply using a law to give support and shelter to cowardly bullies. The people who genuinely need protection through laws are always minority groups.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by vivfox

These are interesting words coming from a person whose sig pic for a long time said something about Str8 people keep having Gay children so why blame Gays for being Gay.

Yeah and my sig pic would still say that but I tried to change it and then couldn't read the new one (was another pro marriage equality one), and then couldn't find the old one to put back on there

Just because I believe that people aren't necessarily genetically born with a particular sexuality or particular fetishes, etc, doesn't mean that the sig pic wasn't funny when aimed at the anti marriage equality bigots!