"Nicks is hoping to get time to work on another solo album."

[Macfanforever]

I sure hope so that she works on a new album.

[reebokandlace]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I hear these comments all the time, and it kind of surprises me. There are millions of people who are prescribed medications that they don't need, and that damage their health in some way. Are the doctors who prescribed those meds, and who continued to renew the prescriptions long after the patient should have been weaned from it (if they should have ever been on it at all), not responsible in any way?

No, doctors don't force people to take medications -- but if their patients trust them, they're going to "follow doctor's orders."

Klonopin is often prescribed to control epileptic seizures (which shows you how strong it can be), but due to the high risk of physical dependency, it's not recommended for long-term use. When prescribed for anxiety/panic, it's intended for use "as needed." Not daily.

Stevie, in my opinion, has every right to speak out about her doctor.

I respectively disagree.

Being a doctor is a business. Yes, doctors want to heal people yadda yadda yadda but at the end of the day I am paying my doctor for a service. He or she is working for me. I do not have to do what he or she says, I have the right to question their actions when I feel they are not in my best interest. I am smart enough to get second or third opinions when needed. For example, if i don't like the inert ingredients in a vaccination i have the right to refuse to be injected with whatever they feel would be in my best interest to be injected with. Anyone who blindly listens to their doctors without question is a fool.

Doctors receive kickbacks from the big pharm companies for prescribing certain meds. Remember the big anti-depressant era of the late 1990's early 2000's. wow, you couldn't turn on a tv without seeing those pill ads. "everyone has something wrong, there is a pill for that..." and doctors were handing out anti depressants to anyone.

Painkillers....just try to ask your doctor to prescribe codiene when you have pain after minor surgery. They will try to insist on lortab or oxy first. They will look at you like you have three eyes when you tell them you don't need a heavy narcotic for something minor. Stand up for yourself and get a mild pain killer if you know that is all you need.

Doctors hand out meds and vaccines like candy and the only ones who benefit most of the time is the big Pharms. Shame on anyone who follows blindly. Shame on Stevie for not saying no to that doctor and she should have gotten a second opinion.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by reebokandlace

Doctors hand out meds and vaccines like candy and the only ones who benefit most of the time is the big Pharms. Shame on anyone who follows blindly. Shame on Stevie for not saying no to that doctor and she should have gotten a second opinion.

I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote, except your implication that physicians have no culpability in this matter. That's a "blame the victim" mentality that does everyone a disservice by absolving doctors of the responsibility they should have to their patients.

I'm 41 and have a jaded view of doctors. You seem to hold a similar view. We've seen enough to know that a patient has to be their own advocate. My parents (who are Stevie's age) and grandparents were from a generation where you trusted your doctor without question (and priest, and policeman, etc.). If your doctor said you needed to take this pill three times a day, you took it.

To this day, people go to their physician expecting to receive the proper care and treatment. We might think that's naive -- but it's a fact of life. Those patients who unfortunately do not receive the proper care, resulting in further health issues or even death, aren't to blame for believing that their doctor had their best interests at heart.

[reebokandlace]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote, except your implication that physicians have no culpability in this matter. That's a "blame the victim" mentality that does everyone a disservice by absolving doctors of the responsibility they should have to their patients.

I'm 41 and have a jaded view of doctors. You seem to hold a similar view. We've seen enough to know that a patient has to be their own advocate. My parents (who are Stevie's age) and grandparents were from a generation where you trusted your doctor without question (and priest, and policeman, etc.). If your doctor said you needed to take this pill three times a day, you took it.

To this day, people go to their physician expecting to receive the proper care and treatment. We might think that's naive -- but it's a fact of life. Those patients who unfortunately do not receive the proper care, resulting in further health issues or even death, aren't to blame for believing that their doctor had their best interests at heart.

I hear ya....i just have a hard time making the physician culpable for handing out drugs. It's like a street drug dealer. True, if they weren't on the street selling drugs, the drug addicts wouldn't be able to buy it. But can you really blame the dealer for the addiction? Do you blame the people growing and processing the drugs? I can't. I blame the person who shoots it, snorts it, smokes or swallows it. I think some physicians do prescribe drugs just because it makes them money in repeat office visits and pharm kickbacks. Conversely, I think many physicians often believe that prescribing vaccines and narcotics and antidepressants is in the best interest of the patient. They buy into the big pharm marketing BS too. If people really knew what the inert ingredients were in a vaccine who in the right mind would take any vaccine or give them to their child. But almost every doctor would swear they are safe....I just can't blame them for prescribing....I do agree that many people of an older generation blindly agree and trust their doctors, but younger people (under 65) do as well....it baffles me.....the baby boomers were the first to not trust authority.....I just hope that more people educate themselves.

[gssmith]

Klonopine and methadone are usually prescribed to recovering drug addicts. Maybe if she wasn't taking the stuff, she would have had a relapse? I heard relapses can be deadlier because they don't realize thier resistance went down and over dose. I don't blame the dr either. Lots of people have addictive personalities. Love Stevie, but she was addicted to lots of things.

[BombaySapphire3]

What floors me is that no one around her seemed to notice that she was in the throes of Klonopin addiction.I saw her in concert numerous times during those years and remember one night in particular at the Greek Theatre in Los Feliz on TOSOTM tour when I had second row seats..It was actually a pretty decent show for those times but when she got to the Edge walk and I clasped her hand I could really tell there was something wrong from her robotic movements to the glazed over look in her eyes.That the people around her could not have picked up on this is baffling to me.Especially the following year when she went on an entire tour with such no nonsense people as Christine McVie

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

What floors me is that no one around her seemed to notice that she was in the throes of Klonopin addiction.I saw her in concert numerous times during those years and remember one night in particular at the Greek Theatre in Los Feliz on TOSOTM tour when I had second row seats..It was actually a pretty decent show for those times but when she got to the Edge walk and I clasped her hand I could really tell there was something wrong from her robotic movements to the glazed over look in her eyes.That the people around her could not have picked up on this is baffling to me.Especially the following year when she went on an entire tour with such no nonsense people as Christine McVie

Stevie was a grown woman and she was responsible for herself. She knew what she was doing. Her acting like a robot was probably a godsend to her friends. I'm sure they probably had to worry about a lot worse in the past.

I not sure I buy my songs stank because of klonoplin thing. She had a big head and became a very lazy songwriter.

[olive]

" her robotic movements"

I have video from the last tour and the In Your Dreams tour ... she is still robotic , I have identical edge of 17 video from the moment she turns from the mike she looks straight ahead, then drops her head down a bit throws back her hair and marches forward to when she returns is exactly the same including the expression on her face to how many steps between leaning a shaking someones hand if it weren't for the slight change in her dress you'd swear they were the same .

Her show is stagnate she's been doing the same songs almost in order for a decade, so all those "moves" are ingrained there is little or no spontaneity.

Maybe another new album will excite her to add more new music and work on some kind of new "moves" it is almost as if you can see she is thinking ok 1,2,3, spin

[HejiraNYC]

I have to say that the ignorance in this thread is stunning, even for the Ledge. This notion that people are solely responsible for their own medication decisions is ludicrous and that physicians are not culpable for medication errors is completely false. If that were true, why even bother going to a physician? Why bother controlling access to medication with prescriptions? Let's just make it a drug free-for-all; every man/woman/child should diagnose their own illnesses and medicate themselves accordingly.

In the case of Stevie's addiction to Klonopin, a little insight is needed. Firstly, the science of addiction medicine was relatively young at the time, and even today there is a very high relapse rate and little in the way of effective FDA-approved treatments for addiction. In the absence of treatment options, Klonopin was prescribed off-label at the discretion of Stevie's physician, presumably with the rationale that its tranquilizing/anti-anxiety effects may help to blunt her urges to resume cocaine use. As a so-called expert in his field, Stevie probably trusted him with her life. Another thing to keep in mind is that access to drug information before the internet was virtually non-existent. At best, as a patient you would be lucky to get a wadded-up string of paper containing a disorganized list of side effects in 5pt font. Unless you had a medical background, it was basically impossible to discern 75% of it. As a result, the patient basically had no choice but to heed the advice of the physician and the instructions for use on the bottle. Were there side effects of chronic high-dose Klonopin use? Of course! But at the time, very few people in Stevie's inner circle probably knew about her medication regimen. They probably attributed her flat affect, weight gain and chronic fatigue to age, the lingering effects of cocaine/alcohol abuse, heavy marijuana use, Epstein-Barr, etc. I'm sure people worried about her, but it probably took a long time for them to connect the dots back to the physician prescribing this "anti-addiction medication."

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I have to say that the ignorance in this thread is stunning, even for the Ledge. This notion that people are solely responsible for their own medication decisions is ludicrous and that physicians are not culpable for medication errors is completely false. If that were true, why even bother going to a physician? Why bother controlling access to medication with prescriptions? Let's just make it a drug free-for-all; every man/woman/child should diagnose their own illnesses and medicate themselves accordingly.

In the case of Stevie's addiction to Klonopin, a little insight is needed. Firstly, the science of addiction medicine was relatively young at the time, and even today there is a very high relapse rate and little in the way of effective FDA-approved treatments for addiction. In the absence of treatment options, Klonopin was prescribed off-label at the discretion of Stevie's physician, presumably with the rationale that its tranquilizing/anti-anxiety effects may help to blunt her urges to resume cocaine use. As a so-called expert in his field, Stevie probably trusted him with her life. Another thing to keep in mind is that access to drug information before the internet was virtually non-existent. At best, as a patient you would be lucky to get a wadded-up string of paper containing a disorganized list of side effects in 5pt font. Unless you had a medical background, it was basically impossible to discern 75% of it. As a result, the patient basically had no choice but to heed the advice of the physician and the instructions for use on the bottle. Were there side effects of chronic high-dose Klonopin use? Of course! But at the time, very few people in Stevie's inner circle probably knew about her medication regimen. They probably attributed her flat affect, weight gain and chronic fatigue to age, the lingering effects of cocaine/alcohol abuse, heavy marijuana use, Epstein-Barr, etc. I'm sure people worried about her, but it probably took a long time for them to connect the dots back to the physician prescribing this "anti-addiction medication."

I believe she was a coke head and burnt a lot of bridges that helped her get to the top. After she was humbled and came to her senses she had to do damage control. I also think she truly felt bad for acting like a Diva. Stevie is responsible for her decisions however.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I have to say that the ignorance in this thread is stunning, even for the Ledge. This notion that people are solely responsible for their own medication decisions is ludicrous and that physicians are not culpable for medication errors is completely false. If that were true, why even bother going to a physician? Why bother controlling access to medication with prescriptions? Let's just make it a drug free-for-all; every man/woman/child should diagnose their own illnesses and medicate themselves accordingly.

In the case of Stevie's addiction to Klonopin, a little insight is needed. Firstly, the science of addiction medicine was relatively young at the time, and even today there is a very high relapse rate and little in the way of effective FDA-approved treatments for addiction. In the absence of treatment options, Klonopin was prescribed off-label at the discretion of Stevie's physician, presumably with the rationale that its tranquilizing/anti-anxiety effects may help to blunt her urges to resume cocaine use. As a so-called expert in his field, Stevie probably trusted him with her life. Another thing to keep in mind is that access to drug information before the internet was virtually non-existent. At best, as a patient you would be lucky to get a wadded-up string of paper containing a disorganized list of side effects in 5pt font. Unless you had a medical background, it was basically impossible to discern 75% of it. As a result, the patient basically had no choice but to heed the advice of the physician and the instructions for use on the bottle. Were there side effects of chronic high-dose Klonopin use? Of course! But at the time, very few people in Stevie's inner circle probably knew about her medication regimen. They probably attributed her flat affect, weight gain and chronic fatigue to age, the lingering effects of cocaine/alcohol abuse, heavy marijuana use, Epstein-Barr, etc. I'm sure people worried about her, but it probably took a long time for them to connect the dots back to the physician prescribing this "anti-addiction medication."

I think you are pretty spot-on with all of this (per usual!). However, there is one factor you're missing. Since Stevie had already gone to rehab for cocaine, she had to of realized at some point that she had replaced one addiction with another.

Also, the summation that prescription drugs were not recognized as addictive or used recreationally in the 1980s & 1990s is incorrect. Quaaludes were pulled from the US market in 1982 because they were both of these things.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I have to say that the ignorance in this thread is stunning, even for the Ledge.

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

This notion that people are solely responsible for their own medication decisions is ludicrous and that physicians are not culpable for medication errors is completely false.

Exactly! I understand people saying Stevie needs to take responsibility for herself, but why everyone is so quick to let the doctor off the hook is beyond me. It's as if he himself had no understanding of the drug or how it should be used. Why do you think Michael Jackson's doctor is in so much trouble? Because he gave a patient an anesthetic to use as a sleep aid!!! Sure Michael was messed up; that doesn't mean medical professionals don't need to be held to some standard of competence.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I think you are pretty spot-on with all of this (per usual!). However, there is one factor you're missing. Since Stevie had already gone to rehab for cocaine, she had to of realized at some point that she had replaced one addiction with another.

The doctor should have realized it much sooner.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I have to say that the ignorance in this thread is stunning, even for the Ledge. This notion that people are solely responsible for their own medication decisions is ludicrous and that physicians are not culpable for medication errors is completely false. If that were true, why even bother going to a physician? Why bother controlling access to medication with prescriptions? Let's just make it a drug free-for-all; every man/woman/child should diagnose their own illnesses and medicate themselves accordingly.

In the case of Stevie's addiction to Klonopin, a little insight is needed. Firstly, the science of addiction medicine was relatively young at the time, and even today there is a very high relapse rate and little in the way of effective FDA-approved treatments for addiction. In the absence of treatment options, Klonopin was prescribed off-label at the discretion of Stevie's physician, presumably with the rationale that its tranquilizing/anti-anxiety effects may help to blunt her urges to resume cocaine use. As a so-called expert in his field, Stevie probably trusted him with her life. Another thing to keep in mind is that access to drug information before the internet was virtually non-existent. At best, as a patient you would be lucky to get a wadded-up string of paper containing a disorganized list of side effects in 5pt font. Unless you had a medical background, it was basically impossible to discern 75% of it. As a result, the patient basically had no choice but to heed the advice of the physician and the instructions for use on the bottle. Were there side effects of chronic high-dose Klonopin use? Of course! But at the time, very few people in Stevie's inner circle probably knew about her medication regimen. They probably attributed her flat affect, weight gain and chronic fatigue to age, the lingering effects of cocaine/alcohol abuse, heavy marijuana use, Epstein-Barr, etc. I'm sure people worried about her, but it probably took a long time for them to connect the dots back to the physician prescribing this "anti-addiction medication."

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I think you are pretty spot-on with all of this (per usual!). However, there is one factor you're missing. Since Stevie had already gone to rehab for cocaine, she had to of realized at some point that she had replaced one addiction with another.

Also, the summation that prescription drugs were not recognized as addictive or used recreationally in the 1980s & 1990s is incorrect. Quaaludes were pulled from the US market in 1982 because they were both of these things.

I agree with both posts...Now let's add her handlers to the mix. The infrastructure of managers, agents, publicists, personal assistants and so on are all supposed to making decisions based on what's best for her...It's quite possible that any or all of them thought that her being under a doctors supervision was in her (or their) best interest...As Louie said Stevie may have realized she had a new problem...It wouldn't surprise me if she had said something about the Doctor or expressed her concerns about the prescription only to be told "The doctor knows what he is doing" ...

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

I agree with both posts...Now let's add her handlers to the mix. The infrastructure of managers, agents, publicists, personal assistants and so on are all supposed to making decisions based on what's best for her...It's quite possible that any or all of them thought that her being under a doctors supervision was in her (or their) best interest...As Louie said Stevie may have realized she had a new problem...It wouldn't surprise me if she had said something about the Doctor or expressed her concerns about the prescription only to be told "The doctor knows what he is doing" ...

and as long as they could get her out there on the road they were all making money. Just prop her up out ther and rake in the bucks. the business is business and eats people up