Obamacare is coming

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I don't know where to begin on this... there is too much manufactured outrage over Obamacare and too little discussion about the issue at hand: your health. A few points:

1. For those of you who are not insured for whatever reason, what is your Plan B? In other words, what do you expect to happen in the event of a catastrophic illness such as advanced cancer (which remained undiagnosed due to your reluctance to seek preventive medical care)? What about a sudden stroke? What if you take a bad fall and fracture your pelvis? Your spine? You become a quadroplegic? Do you have the tens-, hundreds-of-thousands of dollars saved up to receive the necessary treatment to save your life or quality of life? Or do you plan to wipe yourself out financially and declare bankruptcy in the midst of a debilitating illness? Are you willing to accept less expensive, substandard care? Or are you just going to forfeit treatment and let the illness run its painful course? Chances are, on some deep psychological level, I suspect most people assume that there is a safety net somewhere in the U.S. healthcare system. Uncle Sam will rise up and save the day! Well... that is indeed true in some cases- for people of retirement age on Medicare and the truly destitute who qualify for state Medicaid. But if you are solidly middle class and employed with some assets, you really don't have a safety net. Indeed, the reality of healthcare today in the U.S. is that people are literally dying from treatable illnesses because they don't qualify for government entitlements and they cannot afford insurance and/or medical care. The intent of Obamacare is to make insurance accessible to everyone, particularly the lower income middle class, via subsidies.

2. Health insurance today is expensive. It is not going to be much cheaper under Obamacare for most people. But it offers some critical advantages for some: healthcare portability (i.e., the ability to change insurance carriers without the risk of being denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions), access to health insurance for low income people who don't qualify for Medic-are/aid via substantial subsidies, etc. By forcing all people to obtain coverage, it forces more healthy young people to start paying into the system to offset the cost of keeping older, sicker people with pre-existing conditions insured. Indeed, as the Supreme Court ruled earlier this year, this is much like a tax along the lines of Social Security. Yes, nobody wants to pay more taxes. But at least this particular tax has the tangible benefit of improving your own quality of life as well as helping others. Expanding healthcare coverage also means more people are receiving check-ups and potentially averting expensive hospitalizations. Plus healthcare portability introduces an element of competition. All of these things should *theoretically* force insurance companies to drive down rates; however, this may or may not actually materialize.

3. Obamacare is not a single-payer system like much of the rest of the Western world. It's not ideal, but neither is a single-payer system. Yes, a single-payer system eliminates much administrative overhead and appears to deliver healthcare more efficiently and cheaply since the costs for salaries, hospitals, drugs and devices are all capped. However, in many instances, you get what you pay for. Money drives innovation. And money tends to attract the best talent. Although the current U.S. healthcare system is appalling, the U.S. has among the most important medical institutions and practitioners in the world. And it's also where the most money is funneled into research and development of new drugs. You will not see state of the art innovation and world reknown experts in their fields in state-run facilities making government salaries. This is critical when it comes to life-threatening/terminal diseases; in the U.S. you can always get a second opinion (if you pay for it or if your insurance covers it).

4. Most other Western countries have a single-payer system. However, they also have lofty value added taxes (VAT) of upwards of 15%+ levied on all goods and services. This is why a $15 CD in the U.S. costs $25 in the UK and it's the reason why foreigners everywhere come to the U.S. to bargain shop. It's a terribly regressive tax that places a disproportionate burden on lower income earners (as a percentage of income). Over time, if you buy groceries, eat at restaurants, buy clothes, go to the movies, etc., you will essentially be paying the equivalent of an Obamacare premium in VAT. Alternatively, if the U.S. took on a single-payer system that was largely funded by a VAT, the prices for everything will skyrocket while salaries remain stagnant and the economy will suffer. The quality of care will suffer as well.

Yes, everybody's situation is different, and some people are truly bummed about having to pony up for health insurance. But it really pays to review your options and to see how you will be personally impacted before passing judgment. It's not a perfect system, and it will certainly be tweaked over time. But it's a necessary start toward leveling the playing field and making health insurance affordable for lower income people and people with pre-existing conditions.

Thanks for the input Ed.Its nice to hear from you.

Originally Posted by vivfox

While it is true Ct. has high premiums for working citizens, you my friend will be able to practically pay no deductible if any, because you are unemployed. It's an income based system. Just relax.

Yes I agree and understand. I'm just frustrated over this whole thing here .

If they had a price of $125 on the exchange .I would go for it and shut up about it.

[olive]

who's on the death panels ?

[jenniferuk]

An overview of the penalties--for 2014 it is $95 per adult or 1% of income. Apols if this isn't accurate in some way but I haven't seen the $900 pen reported. We have several expat friends without insurance trying to go with Obamacare as it is too risky to do without any cover.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/...ured-americans


Apparently the calculators have gone live today but there are some glitches--a friend received several different quotes using the same info and said there are a few system bugs (in Cali at least). So, give it time and try again if the quote doesn't appear correct.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by jenniferuk

An overview of the penalties--for 2014 it is $95 per adult or 1% of income. Apols if this isn't accurate in some way but I haven't seen the $900 pen reported.

It is 900.00 in Ma. and without checking I thought the rest of the country was based on my state's plan. A 95.00 fine won't make people feel forced to buy health insurance but the higher fine should do the trick.

[olive]

if it's anything like romneycare which is what we have in Massachusetts the fine will applied to the insurance , no one has ever gone to jail

[jenniferuk]

Originally Posted by vivfox

It is 900.00 in Ma. and without checking I thought the rest of the country was based on my state's plan. A 95.00 fine won't make people feel forced to buy health insurance but the higher fine should do the trick.

Got it--thanks for the info.

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by olive

if it's anything like romneycare which is what we have in Massachusetts the fine will applied to the insurance , no one has ever gone to jail

Forget Romney too.

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

If Stevie or FM tours next year .I just have to cut back on some shows to pay the insurance premium .

Other people will do the same on other things and bring us back in the hole like we were years ago .


Control medical costs from the providers is the issue they should be looking into instead of forcing people to get insurance plans to lined the industries pockets with the money from the insurance companies.

No need for those inflated charges.

Thats how I feel about it.

From working at a health insurance company for almost 25 years, I can tell you it's not the providers, but the health insurance industry that drives up the costs. It's the administrative nightmare they've created with layers and layers of managers who have huge salaries that are not warranted, plus the fact that in any given area of any healthcare company, only 2% of the people actually do the work and the other 98% just go along for the ride and are paid the same money. All they have to do is show up at the beginning of the day, and go home at the end. And then, the companies really don't do much anyway and push all the work back on the providers, causing them to hire additional staff to handle all the work involved with insurance company policy. And don't forget that each company has its own IT department developing systems, which means hundreds or thousands of business analysts, systems analysts, programmers, testers, and of course, at least two or three managers for each single employee. And they aren't even the experts at IT development in the first place, but instead of paying IT companies that are the experts, they spend tons of money on system development internally, and often the systems aren't even implemented anyway, for many reasons. One is the fact that they don't use experienced people, because for some reason, the companies believe that you don't have to know anything about health insurance, you just have to have writing skills. By the time they plan and build and test and finally figure out that the system won't work, they've already thrown a ton of cash right out the window. The waste of money is unbelieveable.

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by seekerj

From working at a health insurance company for almost 25 years, I can tell you it's not the providers, but the health insurance industry that drives up the costs. It's the administrative nightmare they've created with layers and layers of managers who have huge salaries that are not warranted, plus the fact that in any given area of any healthcare company, only 2% of the people actually do the work and the other 98% just go along for the ride and are paid the same money. All they have to do is show up at the beginning of the day, and go home at the end. And then, the companies really don't do much anyway and push all the work back on the providers, causing them to hire additional staff to handle all the work involved with insurance company policy. And don't forget that each company has its own IT department developing systems, which means hundreds or thousands of business analysts, systems analysts, programmers, testers, and of course, at least two or three managers for each single employee. And they aren't even the experts at IT development in the first place, but instead of paying IT companies that are the experts, they spend tons of money on system development internally, and often the systems aren't even implemented anyway, for many reasons. One is the fact that they don't use experienced people, because for some reason, the companies believe that you don't have to know anything about health insurance, you just have to have writing skills. By the time they plan and build and test and finally figure out that the system won't work, they've already thrown a ton of cash right out the window. The waste of money is unbelieveable.

Yes I agree.Its the administrative dept that kills any business.Look at the charities .
The people who get the money to help them which is almost nothing after the administrative fees take most of the donated money.

Also bloated malpractice suits did not help the matter either.


Its like Home Depot or Lowe's charging the government $500 plus bucks for a cheap toilet seat that worth about $25 bucks.

[Macfanforever]

I finally logged back onto AccesshealthCT site to read on and make a account.So far the site crapped out again.

I just wait a couple of days and try again.

I want to double check the rates again and maybe I read it wrong which I dont believe I did.


$369.10 for the bronze plan is crazy and I can see that medicaid will go bankrupt in a short time because most of the people cant afford $369.10 a month just for the cheapest plan.

It did not even ask me if I smoked.Which was strange.

I could not imagine what the gold and the family plans cost.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I don't know where to begin on this... there is too much manufactured outrage over Obamacare and too little discussion about the issue at hand: your health. A few points:

1. For those of you who are not insured for whatever reason, what is your Plan B? In other words, what do you expect to happen in the event of a catastrophic illness such as advanced cancer (which remained undiagnosed due to your reluctance to seek preventive medical care)? What about a sudden stroke? What if you take a bad fall and fracture your pelvis? Your spine? You become a quadroplegic? Do you have the tens-, hundreds-of-thousands of dollars saved up to receive the necessary treatment to save your life or quality of life? Or do you plan to wipe yourself out financially and declare bankruptcy in the midst of a debilitating illness? Are you willing to accept less expensive, substandard care? Or are you just going to forfeit treatment and let the illness run its painful course? Chances are, on some deep psychological level, I suspect most people assume that there is a safety net somewhere in the U.S. healthcare system. Uncle Sam will rise up and save the day! Well... that is indeed true in some cases- for people of retirement age on Medicare and the truly destitute who qualify for state Medicaid. But if you are solidly middle class and employed with some assets, you really don't have a safety net. Indeed, the reality of healthcare today in the U.S. is that people are literally dying from treatable illnesses because they don't qualify for government entitlements and they cannot afford insurance and/or medical care. The intent of Obamacare is to make insurance accessible to everyone, particularly the lower income middle class, via subsidies.

2. Health insurance today is expensive. It is not going to be much cheaper under Obamacare for most people. But it offers some critical advantages for some: healthcare portability (i.e., the ability to change insurance carriers without the risk of being denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions), access to health insurance for low income people who don't qualify for Medic-are/aid via substantial subsidies, etc. By forcing all people to obtain coverage, it forces more healthy young people to start paying into the system to offset the cost of keeping older, sicker people with pre-existing conditions insured. Indeed, as the Supreme Court ruled earlier this year, this is much like a tax along the lines of Social Security. Yes, nobody wants to pay more taxes. But at least this particular tax has the tangible benefit of improving your own quality of life as well as helping others. Expanding healthcare coverage also means more people are receiving check-ups and potentially averting expensive hospitalizations. Plus healthcare portability introduces an element of competition. All of these things should *theoretically* force insurance companies to drive down rates; however, this may or may not actually materialize.

3. Obamacare is not a single-payer system like much of the rest of the Western world. It's not ideal, but neither is a single-payer system. Yes, a single-payer system eliminates much administrative overhead and appears to deliver healthcare more efficiently and cheaply since the costs for salaries, hospitals, drugs and devices are all capped. However, in many instances, you get what you pay for. Money drives innovation. And money tends to attract the best talent. Although the current U.S. healthcare system is appalling, the U.S. has among the most important medical institutions and practitioners in the world. And it's also where the most money is funneled into research and development of new drugs. You will not see state of the art innovation and world reknown experts in their fields in state-run facilities making government salaries. This is critical when it comes to life-threatening/terminal diseases; in the U.S. you can always get a second opinion (if you pay for it or if your insurance covers it).

4. Most other Western countries have a single-payer system. However, they also have lofty value added taxes (VAT) of upwards of 15%+ levied on all goods and services. This is why a $15 CD in the U.S. costs $25 in the UK and it's the reason why foreigners everywhere come to the U.S. to bargain shop. It's a terribly regressive tax that places a disproportionate burden on lower income earners (as a percentage of income). Over time, if you buy groceries, eat at restaurants, buy clothes, go to the movies, etc., you will essentially be paying the equivalent of an Obamacare premium in VAT. Alternatively, if the U.S. took on a single-payer system that was largely funded by a VAT, the prices for everything will skyrocket while salaries remain stagnant and the economy will suffer. The quality of care will suffer as well.

Yes, everybody's situation is different, and some people are truly bummed about having to pony up for health insurance. But it really pays to review your options and to see how you will be personally impacted before passing judgment. It's not a perfect system, and it will certainly be tweaked over time. But it's a necessary start toward leveling the playing field and making health insurance affordable for lower income people and people with pre-existing conditions.

I love you.

[Macfanforever]

Its sad to see they have closed down the country with its employees on furlough which will hurt in the long run if they cant decide to make up their minds over this ordeal.I blame both sides on this.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

Its sad to see they have closed down the country with its employees on furlough which will hurt in the long run if they cant decide to make up their minds over this ordeal.I blame both sides on this.

Blame should be placed where it belongs: the GOP. They are the ones who are continuing to use every obstructionist tactic possible to undermine the president. They are basically holding the U.S. government hostage; the president cannot cave into the whims of these domestic terrorists.

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Blame should be placed where it belongs: the GOP. They are the ones who are continuing to use every obstructionist tactic possible to undermine the president. They are basically holding the U.S. government hostage; the president cannot cave into the whims of these domestic terrorists.

Yes you are right after the info on the shutdown sank in my head as I did my walk tonight or last night.

They pulled this back in December and almost cause a shutdown.

Lets see how long it will take for them to breakdown and put people and things back as they were on the 30th of Sept.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Blame should be placed where it belongs: the GOP. They are the ones who are continuing to use every obstructionist tactic possible to undermine the president. They are basically holding the U.S. government hostage; the president cannot cave into the whims of these domestic terrorists.

I do agree with this. The GOP used every tactic possible to hurt Obamacare. However, Obama never stood up to them when this was going on. He made concession after concession and came off like a weak president. He was part of the problem. That is why I voted for Hillary during the primaries. Her and Bill were the only ones who could beat the Republicans at their own game. She loves socking it to them. I don't think Obama is going to be remembered as that strong of a president because of how he let the Republicans run all over him.