Mirage vs. Tango In The Night

[dissention]

There are many reasons why I, and I'm sure many others, don't like WISYA. I know that Stevie writes in an honest, truthful way and that she allows herself to show her true colors and vulnerability, but it doesn't necessarily mask a bad song.

The vocals are very poor. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: it's as if Stevie forgot how to sing when they recorded this. Her vocals are lousy. They're whiny, sharp, and too scratchy. The only good vocal comes from Lindsey.

The lyrics are lazy and among the worst she's ever written (and I don't think she has written many bad songs). I think this is the worst part of the song:

"So she walks slowly
down the hall
There are many doors
in the hallway
And she stares at the stairs
Ooh there are many things
to stare at these days"

The repetition of "Whassamattababay" grates on the nerves. Any song that just repeats itself over and over, regardless if it's a Stevie/Mac song, is obnoxious. The fact that she starts off singing it and then whispering it and then screeching it and then caterwauling it doesn't help.

I love Stevie and understand all of her lyrics like the rest of y'all. However, for people who are not fans that hear a song like WISYA, it won't make them a fan and I think the lyrics are a big part in that. WISYA and WTTR...S would be incomprehensible to someone who isn't a fanatic like us on the board. Frontline, baby? It's not home and it's not Tara? Deja vu? Upstairs where the stars laugh and shine? They'd be scratching their heads in bewilderment, asking how all this mess ties together. I expect most people would laugh hysterically at the "Whassamattababays" and the staring at stairs in WISYA. The song just doesn't come together.

Just my opinion though!

[The Tower]

Originally posted by EricBliss12345
What's wrong with Little Lies? I think it's one of Chris's best! I really like the dark, gloomy atmosphere of the song. It's a really nice change of pace from somebody who usually turns out the smiley-faced ray-of-sunshine stuff that she does. Isn't It Midnight does as well, but not nearly as effectively.

Sorry to go off topic. Just wanted to defend a cool song.

I'm sorry Eric, but "Little Lies" is very {boppy} and {dated}.... It's just not good like "You Make Loving Fun" or "One More Night"....

Christine's contribution to this record was very . She, herself, has stated that if a song doesn't work from the beginning, she will discard it.

I still think "Little Lies" is an abysmal, mid-80's stinker.

[The Tower]

Originally posted by dissention
"So she walks slowly
down the hall
There are many doors
in the hallway
And she stares at the stairs
Ooh there are many things
to stare at these days"

I love ev'ry moment of these lyrics.... Especially, the heartbreak in her voice. LORD!! It was HER standing there in her house realizing that everything (that she knew of at the time) was GONE ....

Especially, "There are many things to stare at- these days..."

Stevie had a lot of courage to be able to go back to Lindsey with herself in that state and present songs without running away or breaking down.

When I first heard Tango in the Night, I REALLY didn't like it... However, the only things that saved the album for me were

Isn't It Midnight
Tango in the Night
When I See You Again
Welcome to the Room... Sara

Otherwise, the album was Lindsey unabated. Before his masterpiece, Out of the Cradle.

[Johnny Stew]

This is always the most interesting thing... to me, at least... when people are discussing "best" and "worst" songs, because in a lot of cases, it varies so much from person to person.
"When I See You Again" is most definitely one of those songs.

I love everything about the song, and I don't see anything bad about the lyrics at all.
Are they the most brilliant lyrics ever written? No, but the brilliance is in how deeply they can affect someone.
I can feel and hear the aching and longing in every single word, and in every nuance of her vocal.

That second verse kills me....

"So she walks slowly down the hall...
There are many doors in the hallway.
And she stares at the stairs....
Ooh, there are many things to stare at these days."

Maybe it's just me, but because of my panic/anxiety disorder, I have spent many nights just walking the floors, because I can't sleep and don't know what to do with myself.
I know EXACTLY what Stevie must have been feeling as she wrote those lyrics.

And yes, her voice is scratchy and raspy... and that's the beauty of it.
A singer with a textbook perfect voice could never pull off a song like this. Stevie's flawed little voice brings something to this song that all the perfect notes in the world, couldn't hope to.

I feel the same way about "I Sing For The Things"... that hoarse, whispered vocal just slays me every time.

By the way, I was a relatively "new" fan when 'Tango' was released. I was familiar with the bigger hits, and grew up loving those songs... but I was so young when they were released, that I paid little attention to who sang them, etc.
It wasn't until 'Rock A Little' was released in late 1985, that I really took notice.
So that album, and 'Tango In The Night,' were the two albums that REALLY introduced me to Stevie and Fleetwood Mac, in a big way. And "When I See You Again" was definitely one of the songs that permanently sealed my fandom.
And I was only a teenager at the time.

I don't expect everyone to like "When I See You Again" (though I do believe the possibility is there, if someone truly immerses their self in the song), but it does mean a great deal to me... so it can't possibly be the "worst" anything.

[EricBliss12345]

Originally posted by The Tower
I'm sorry Eric, but "Little Lies" is very {boppy} and {dated}.... It's just not good like "You Make Loving Fun" or "One More Night"....

Christine's contribution to this record was very . She, herself, has stated that if a song doesn't work from the beginning, she will discard it.

I still think "Little Lies" is an abysmal, mid-80's stinker.

Well she obviously liked these songs, or she would have discarded them!

If Little Lies had come out in the 70's, and not had that annoyingly glossy mid-80's production and keyboards from the worst era ever for keyboard instruments, I bet you any money that you'd like this song. Just the sound alone of "Everywhere" made me completely hate the song for a while. But it's strangely catchy.

Any money though, if Little Lies had Rumours and Mirage-style punchy analog 70's production, and Chris played a Rhodes electric instead of that squeeky Yamaha DX-7 and played a vintage Minimoog or something for those synth lines, I guarantee you'd like the song.

I think that applies to ALL of her "Tango" tracks.

It's funny because most every opinion I've read stated that Christine basically saved the album as far as quality of songs is concerned. Interesting.

Sound quality and production has more an influence on how people percieve music, whether they know that or not.

[dissention]

Next to Lindsey's Tango In the Night, I think Little Lies is the best song on the album!

[EricBliss12345]

My curiosity got the better of me and I DL'ed When I See You Again.

Yow! So coke not only rots your nose to the point of having to have somebody imbibe it up your cornhole, but it can also fool an extremely talented songwriter into thinking this kind of stuff is passable.

The song does have one very positive merit to it though. If I didn't want to do coke ever again anyways, I sure the hell don't want to do it now.

How pathetic.

[Sugar]

You can chalk me up for Mirage.

The synthy 80's thing just bugs me too much. Probably why I'm among the minority that likes WISYA; it's simple, vulnerable, and raw. I really dig how Lindsey comes in on the end too, both the vocal and the guitar. I won't bother y'all with the video I have in my head for this song, but it's just so lonely, and I think Lindsey's counterpoint heightens that.

I'll solidify my place in the minority and say I don't really like "Little Lies" (so cliche and insubstantial), and I DO like "Family Man" (LOVE the guitar, the energy and the moodiness) and WTTR...S (I dig gritty Stevie, it ain't all chiffon and lace!). "Isn't It Midnight" is a rocker for Christine and I wish I liked it more, but I just can't connect to it. The rest is just OK to me.

"Mirage", while hardly stellar, just has stronger songs IMO. Both "Wish You Were Here" and especially "Love in Store" are simple yet solid. I mean, c'mon, who among you doesn't sing along to this chorus? "Only Over You" reminds me of "Over My Head" in both atmosphere and theme (damn that Dennis Wilson making Chris so mixed up!). It just reminds me of someone languishing by their window about that bad relationship. Maybe a bit of "Over and Over in there too (what's with these "O" titles?). "Hold Me" is lovely, from that little piano in the beginning to that fabo Chris/Lindsey combo, and those sexy, lusting lyrics!

Lindsey is the weak link here; I can do without almost everything but I really like "Book of Love". I HATE that I like this song, 50's feel AND named "Book of Love" for God's sake! But his vocal in the chorus, right down to those "Ha,ha,ha,ha's"...love it.

I can't say any more about "Gypsy", but I do skip it sometimes just because of the extensive radio play it's gotten. "That's Alright" is OK, but "Straight Back" is SO underrated! It's stronger than SOTM (which I don't think we would talk hardly at all if it hadn't been for the "Mirage" video), and again I dig gritty, fed up Stevie! Direct and to the point..."hours and hours of waiting for you"...smart and angry, at him and herself...I had forgotten about this song for a while, but it may be one of my all time favorites of Stevie's.

I suspect us older folks prefer Mirage because it's closer to the classic FM sound. Tango brought a lot of fans in, so I suspect younger fans like it because it was their first initiation to FM. Just MHO.

[CarneVaca]

I confess it's hard for me to listen to Tango beginning to end now, but for years it was one of my favorite albums. Of course, Cradle supplanted Tango as my most-listened-to record. Curiously enough, I don't have any records now that I play over and over. I'm more democratic in how I listen to my music now.

I believe that in both Mirage and Tango Lindsey was struggling with lyrics. He had hit an apex with Tusk, only to slide in the following years. It must have had something to do with the creative problems he has said he was having. Cradle changed everything. Not only was he writing way better, very deep lyrics, his playing and production had gotten better than ever.

[iamstevienicks]

Mirage for me

It contains 3 of my favourite stevie songs, my favourite Lyndsey song and 2 of my favourite christine songs

Mirage is my #1 album
Tango probably 5th for FM albums, though I do love seven wonders, Tango in the night and isnt it midnight very very much, though Mystified makes me want to commit hari kari

[littlelies7]

I'm famous for loving those two albums! (Also, I have them hanging above my computer desks in these nice LP frames)

I'm choosing Tango In the Night for a few reasons.

1) Little Lies
2) Isn't It Midnight
3) Tango In the Night

4) The album cover painting

5) There's a great attachment to the album. I bought it two months after 9-11. When I bought it, I was so happy that I got it, I must've annoyed the cashier by thanking her for finding it for me! So, getting this album was one of the happier highlights of late 2001, after the 9-11 attacks have severly bummed me out.

~~

Yet, Mirage has many good things too:

1) Eyes of the World
2) Hold Me
3) Gypsy

4) The album cover
Lindsey looks really handsome on there!!
Chris looks really cool! I like her music-note blouse!

5) I bought this after I got my first (actually working) portable CD player. The first song I tried was "Eyes of the World".

~~

Sorry I'm so long-winded!

I be done... for now.

P.S.: I apologize for the first posting of this topic! I didn't realize a nasty flaw! Now, it has been corrected.

[Vianna]

I kind of group the albums like this: White Album, Rumours, Mirage-I like all of them about the same-all have some great songs-Rhiannon, Warm Ways, Crystal from the White Album being my favorites on that one, GDW, The Chain, Songbird being my favorites on Rumours and Gypsy, Can't Go Back, EOTW, and Empire State being my faves off Mirage.

Tusk and TITN are on another level. I just think both show more creativity and I like every song on both those albums.

[face of glass]

This I posted quite a while ago on Burnish. Since this old thread was dug up, I might as well add it here. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular; I'd just want to challenge the common statements that are: "Lindsey isn't into Mirage" and "Lindsey is into Tango":

"People usually say that Mirage is the worst Rumours’ line-up album, because Lindsey wasn’t allowed to continue the Tusk route. However, he wanted to do some “generic” ‘50s influenced stuff between 1981-1983 and that’s what he did. He might complain about not getting to treat the girls’ songs like he wanted to, but I wouldn’t see a real problem there. I couldn’t think of any improvements to “Straight Back” or “That’s Alright”; those have their share of unusual stuff. And he’s definitely in control of the hit singles; the ones that the radio listeners heard anyway. “Hold Me” is as quirky as anything he’s ever arranged/produced, and most people think the production of “Gypsy” is the biggest feather in LB’s hat. I love the friggin’ album.

So, my least favourite from the Rumours-era is Tango. It’s here that I can feel Lindsey’s not into it. No one’s telling him what to do with his own songs, but otherwise I can feel the business guys looking over his shoulder. He wanted to do a solo album badly at that time, but he wasn’t allowed to. “Big Love”, with that subtle percussive guitar in the mix, the title track, which sets the example for “This Is The Time” and “Come” and “Caroline”, with its devilish rhythm machine are firmly in his control. With “Family Man” and “You And I Part Two” he gives the album a sense of playfulness and humour. But with the girls’ songs, it’s a different thing.

I don’t think Lindsey really tried his best with Stevie’s songs. With “WTTR…S” (now that looks stupid) and “WISYA” there wasn’t that much interesting writing in the first place and Lindsey’s obviously not into arranging them. I like the arrangement in “Welcome…” but he could have done a lot more. “When I See You Again” is so simplistic that I can imagine the demo being almost the same way, but without the guitar solo (which adds richness). If any other Rumours line-up song was that simple, I’d just skip it. But here it works, because it’s not complex. I don’t even have anything against “whassamattababies” (the rest of the sentence is censored). Stevie sounds vulnerable on it. But those two songs are still her worst contributions to the band.

With the singles it’s the same way, and that’s where it especially matters; those are the ones the public will hear. There are Lindsey-ish things in them; the guitar-and-percussion clash after the synth notes in the chorus of “Seven Wonders”, the synth arpeggio in “Everywhere”, the percussive guitar in the chorus of “Isn’t It Midnight” (man, I love that one) but that’s about it. Some of the things, such as the generic sounding housewife synth backing in “Everywhere” (or “Seven Wonders”, for that matter), the adult contemporary-like atmosphere of “Mystified”, or the faux-Asian passages in “Little Lies” just feel very un-LB. I’m sure he didn’t get to do what he wanted on those. Which is why he left.

Mind you, I still like the album very much. I like every song there actually, even Stevie’s weaker ones. Chris isn’t at her best; “Mystified” and “Isn’t It Midnight” are both a bit too MOR, but no big complaints there either. I think the album would have been better, had they ditched “Everywhere” for “Ricky” and replaced the two Stevie songs with “You And I Part One” (gorgeous) and “Down Endless Street” (a great vocal). But some people just want to listen to two weaker “serious songs” than two great “lightweight” ones. Not that I think those two Lindsey b-sides are lightweight; “You And I Part One” brings me to tears and those vocals on “DES” send shivers up my spine."

So, in addition to the "WISYA" debate; I'd like to state that I like the song because of it's unprecedented simplicity on a Fleetwood Mac album. I can get over a grating tone colour if there isn't fundamentally anything that feels wrong within the song itself. And it also benefits from the fact that it's the acoustic island of calm and peace on an otherwise electronic, modern '80s album. Yes, I do like it. But then again I'm a nutcase who likes every officially released song by the Rumours line-up.

[littlelies7]

Originally posted by face of glass
or the faux-Asian passages in “Little Lies”

I didn't know that. Where do you see (or hear) that?

One more thing:
Apologies for getting off-topic here...
I once read a review and the person described the intro as an orchestra of violins.

That's all.

[face of glass]

Originally posted by littlelies7
I didn't know that. Where do you see (or hear) that?

I guess I read it once from a local review. My guess would be that it refers to the opening synth riff, or the background of the verses. But I'm not sure, I'm not capable of separating an eastern scale from any other scale.