SYW, best album of all time?

[elle]

Originally Posted by Desiree

I'm sorry...I think I'm rambling. [/B]

yup!

and also, dumping on a specific person in the process, interpreting things that you don't know are really the case.

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by elle

ending with "can you hear me Annie?" by all accounts if about anybody specific Rodeo would be about Anne Heche.

Yes, I'm aware of that interpretation and, for sure, a lot of it may be about Anne. However, I find THESE (and a few others, to be honest, esp. the last verse) lyrics quite curious in terms of a set of VERY similar lyrics of Stevie's and they, to me, bely quite an interesting 'coincidence'.

We never took quite enough chances
We never had quite enough time
I did about a thousand dances
But nothing would change your mind

Say you will, say you will give me one more chance
At least give me time to change your mind
That always seems to heal the wounds, if I can
Get you to dance

"Give us a song but don't live what you sing
Say what you mean but please don't mean a thing

I think I might wander underground
I think I might wander underground
They heard fifteen seconds and that was enough
The idea was new but the business was rough
I think I might wander underground
I think I might wander underground

I go to my lover we lay on our bed
Did I sell my heart for the dreams in my head?
I think I might wander underground"

underground as away from the big business large music labels.

Yes, mostly. I just find that he probably doesn't JUST use 'underground' as a business related concept. He does more so here but not everywhere. So yes, primarily the underground idea here is related to doing his artistic work thing under the radar, or underground, if you will. I just find the 'did I sell my heart for the dreams in my head?' quite an interesting idea in terms of BOTH the personal and the professional.

You're the queen of the underground
Never leaving a clue

I took a trip out of town / A hundred years underground
And had to swim across the sea / Oh, when you were my baby

Black angel can't be alone
Love runs deeper from the underground

i have Cast Away Dreams interpretation a bit different from most other people... while looking at everything through the lens of a star-crossed love relationship is romantic, what seems to be a constant and most important thing to LB is music, his art and getting it out there through his musical career (remember young SN complaining he'd rather sleep with his guitar than her ?). repeated use of a word visionary, plans, and everything that you listed in your bullets above to me points towards him finally letting go of any plans to become commercially successful solo artist - we were discussing that in this thread:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpo...81&postcount=5

Mmm, yes, I've read that before. I disagree, for the most part, sorry. I don't think I purposely look at everything through some misplaced romantic ideal but I DO think that it makes FAR more sense seeing this song in terms of the personal and not the professional. Although Lindsey has written plenty of songs about the world in general and the business in specific, I don't think this is one of them. He directly addresses a person in these lyrics and talks about dreams and faith and plans that two people have had that can be no longer.

I would say that yes, his artistic vision and work IS a constant and important thing to him (though not necessarily the most, actually, anymore). I also think it's fair to say from both interviews and songs that STEVIE is a constant and important thing for him too, in terms of an important relationship in his life as well as an inspiration for lyrics. The whole deal with the 'plans' is in reference to having to go away and not being able to stay - he addresses this to another PERSON. His dreams and faith that he's having to put behind him are about another PERSON (Magic One). The choices being made are being made with another PERSON, a person he wants to still dream of him. Why would KRISTEN be getting into some huge argument with him one night on the SYW tour about him not being willing to give up an obsession about being commercially successful in his solo work (which while I'm sure he would have appreciated really didn't and doesn't seem like a dream/obsession to him, to be honest...)? I'm sorry, it doesn't really gel for me. Kristen had to leave so he could be alone and MOURN that? There may be elements of that idea in there but, truthfully, that song makes far more sense to me if that obsession isn't a 'something' but a 'someone'.

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by elle

yes, that doesn't say absolutely anything about SN. clarity, loss of a dream, an idea... doesn't say it's about a person even.

see my post above, plus look at that whole thread i linked to for different interpretations. there are some really good ones there, once a person takes off S+L blinders.

May I just ask, Elle, why is it that one is wearing 'S+L blinders' if they think a large number of Lindsey's songs are about Stevie and vice versa? Certainly, thinking that doesn't mean that one can't acknowledge or interpret songs as being about his wife, other relationships, business and work issues, the world at large, politics, etc. I just happen to think that certain songs of his ARE about her (even after reading alternate interpretations and explanations sometimes) and many recurrent themes, words, images seem to point to that in this song - CAD - and others as well.

Naturally, a song can also be about more than one thing and I don't think it's a stretch to say that he can be talking about both the personal and professional within a song and that the personal element may be about Stevie, a woman he still obviously had and has complicated and deep feelings about and for. I don't think that's me wearing blinders, even if I quite happily admit to being a 'shipper'. Your mileage may vary, of course.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Naturally, a song can also be about more than one thing and I don't think it's a stretch to say that he can be talking about both the personal and professional within a song and that the personal element may be about Stevie, a woman he still obviously had and has complicated and deep feelings about and for.

Absolutely. It's all tied together anyway. Of course there is more than one meaning. Both Stevie & Lindsey write like that. After all, Lindsey said they appreciate the double entendre of "EP" - "extended play"...

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Absolutely. It's all tied together anyway. Of course there is more than one meaning. Both Stevie & Lindsey write like that. After all, Lindsey said they appreciate the double entendre of "EP" - "extended play"...

Quite. We can't have them being boring and having simplistic, literal lyrics all the time. Double-meanings, symbolism and parallels all the way. I mean, taking something like Peacekeer, a fairly overtly political song in many ways:

"I wrote the song about two and a half years ago. It was, in a very ironic way, looking at the kind of thinking that is matter-of-fact and desensitized towards certain actions that go on in the world, and the kind of blankness and conformity that goes along with that. And then trying to look at what that does for a married couple trying to work out their problems. How does it affect them?"

We have both the political and the personal. It's a nice juxtaposition and compare/contrast at times, especially considering certain peoples' interest in power dynamics and the politics of art and how that affects personal relationships.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Quite. We can't have them being boring and having simplistic, literal lyrics all the time. Double-meanings, symbolism and parallels all the way. I mean, taking something like Peacekeer, a fairly overtly political song in many ways:

"I wrote the song about two and a half years ago. It was, in a very ironic way, looking at the kind of thinking that is matter-of-fact and desensitized towards certain actions that go on in the world, and the kind of blankness and conformity that goes along with that. And then trying to look at what that does for a married couple trying to work out their problems. How does it affect them?"

We have both the political and the personal. It's a nice juxtaposition and compare/contrast at times, especially considering certain peoples' interest in power dynamics and the politics of art and how that affects personal relationships.

It's funny, I always think of Stevie in regards to that song because she has described herself as the "peacekeeper" so many times.

I think LB threw the political stuff in his explanations later but it could be political on a more personal level instead of global. He did the same thing with "Treason" which I don't believe he even thought of the political aspect until it was suggested due to the timing of current events. The song is obviously about a relationship, not politics.

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

It's funny, I always think of Stevie in regards to that song because she has described herself as the "peacekeeper" so many times.

I think LB threw the political stuff in his explanations later but it could be political on a more personal level instead of global. He did the same thing with "Treason" which I don't believe he even thought of the political aspect until it was suggested due to the timing of current events. The song is obviously about a relationship, not politics.

Ha, yes. When I discovered FM - beyond the family Greatest Hits CD - I basically listened to the entire discography (both group and solo) in chronological order and had had certain songs still in my head when it came time for SYW and Peacekeeper...

High priestess...she's the keeper of the peace in this
Twice as much, intensified

Yes, I think that has been the case at times. Certainly, there are certain very political songs but I think often his explanation of them as being such means that less attention is paid to the more personal elements that also exist within said songs and, whilst his explanation isn't untrue by any means, it doesn't explain *all* the lyrics of the song or all the layers of the song. And it doesn't have to. Would be far less fun to read into and interpret, then. And yeah, he's apparently very interested in things like the politics within a band, for example. Which he doesn't mention much AT ALL, cough.

I walk empty halls wondering what is true
Behind the garden walls I search for you
Deep down in the ocean, deep down in the sea
Saw your face full of grace searching for me

Halls, truth, walls, searching, ocean, sea, grace - check, check, check. Yep, definitely some nice imagery and personal elements in that one...

[elle]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Yes, I'm aware of that interpretation and, for sure, a lot of it may be about Anne. However, I find THESE (and a few others, to be honest, esp. the last verse) lyrics quite curious in terms of a set of VERY similar lyrics of Stevie's and they, to me, bely quite an interesting 'coincidence'.

We never took quite enough chances
We never had quite enough time
I did about a thousand dances
But nothing would change your mind

Say you will, say you will give me one more chance
At least give me time to change your mind
That always seems to heal the wounds, if I can
Get you to dance


Yes, mostly. I just find that he probably doesn't JUST use 'underground' as a business related concept. He does more so here but not everywhere. So yes, primarily the underground idea here is related to doing his artistic work thing under the radar, or underground, if you will. I just find the 'did I sell my heart for the dreams in my head?' quite an interesting idea in terms of BOTH the personal and the professional.

You're the queen of the underground
Never leaving a clue

I took a trip out of town / A hundred years underground
And had to swim across the sea / Oh, when you were my baby

Black angel can't be alone
Love runs deeper from the underground

Mmm, yes, I've read that before. I disagree, for the most part, sorry. I don't think I purposely look at everything through some misplaced romantic ideal but I DO think that it makes FAR more sense seeing this song in terms of the personal and not the professional. Although Lindsey has written plenty of songs about the world in general and the business in specific, I don't think this is one of them. He directly addresses a person in these lyrics and talks about dreams and faith and plans that two people have had that can be no longer.

I would say that yes, his artistic vision and work IS a constant and important thing to him (though not necessarily the most, actually, anymore). I also think it's fair to say from both interviews and songs that STEVIE is a constant and important thing for him too, in terms of an important relationship in his life as well as an inspiration for lyrics.

thank you for juxtaposing words of Rodeo and SYW. i read them and sang these songs in my head at the same time... and what immediately jumped out was that there is such a huge difference in the quality of these 2 songs (for me at least ), even though Rodeo is often dismissed as one of Lindsey's more commercial sounding songs.

i don't want to dump on him but i do think that for the longest time being commercially successful or at least being as commercially successful as Stevie ("it was all for you" ) was an obsession for him.

and while i agree that in my interpretations i provide just one dimension / version / explanation, i go that way mostly because there's no need to go into SnL explanation. tons of other people already go there at every opportunity - and they see ONLY that dimension. that's why i loved reading your other posts below (and CAD's), because i agree that most Lindsey's songs are very multi-dimensional, and about many different things. like many songwriters write in fact, including Stevie from what i know - her song that she says is about Mick, or Lindsey, or whoever or whatever, maybe actually spliced of components of several different poems, each about something different. especially if Lindsey had something to do with producing that particular song lol.

Originally Posted by nicole21290

May I just ask, Elle, why is it that one is wearing 'S+L blinders' if they think a large number of Lindsey's songs are about Stevie and vice versa? Certainly, thinking that doesn't mean that one can't acknowledge or interpret songs as being about his wife, other relationships, business and work issues, the world at large, politics, etc. I just happen to think that certain songs of his ARE about her (even after reading alternate interpretations and explanations sometimes) and many recurrent themes, words, images seem to point to that in this song - CAD - and others as well.

Naturally, a song can also be about more than one thing and I don't think it's a stretch to say that he can be talking about both the personal and professional within a song and that the personal element may be about Stevie, a woman he still obviously had and has complicated and deep feelings about and for. I don't think that's me wearing blinders, even if I quite happily admit to being a 'shipper'. Your mileage may vary, of course.

i agree with much of what you wrote, and especially parts i highlighted. while many of his songs may have a very simplistic lyrics and be about one thing (WMYTYTO?), many are also very multidimensional - as we both seem to agree.
i also think that LB sometimes just throws words in that he likes, or that sound good to him, or that are just swirling in his head for no particular reason (like because SN uses them so much and they sound good or mysterious? ). remember, some of Love Runs Deeper words that you quoted came from KB (and are some of his most pedestrian and bland lyrics imo - KB!).

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Absolutely. It's all tied together anyway. Of course there is more than one meaning. Both Stevie & Lindsey write like that. After all, Lindsey said they appreciate the double entendre of "EP" - "extended play"...

and not just that lol - gift of screws if nothing else comes to mind. he loves loves loves double entendre... and almost every time one of the meanings has to be very dirty / sexual . nobody thinks GOS is only about art and squeezing creative juices! (to the left to the right up and down and around... with some sex noises added into it. hmmm. yes. Emily Dickenson inspired art only.).

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Quite. We can't have them being boring and having simplistic, literal lyrics all the time. Double-meanings, symbolism and parallels all the way.

completely agree.

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Yes, I think that has been the case at times. Certainly, there are certain very political songs but I think often his explanation of them as being such means that less attention is paid to the more personal elements that also exist within said songs and, whilst his explanation isn't untrue by any means, it doesn't explain *all* the lyrics of the song or all the layers of the song. And it doesn't have to. Would be far less fun to read into and interpret, then. And yeah, he's apparently very interested in things like the politics within a band, for example. Which he doesn't mention much AT ALL, cough.

I walk empty halls wondering what is true
Behind the garden walls I search for you
Deep down in the ocean, deep down in the sea
Saw your face full of grace searching for me

Halls, truth, walls, searching, ocean, sea, grace - check, check, check. Yep, definitely some nice imagery and personal elements in that one...

yes - but the words he repeats and loves to use - do they really have to be about one thing or person? as you said above, many of these songs have great lyrics with many different meanings.

i'm actually surprised you didn't bring up SWS and EAP, but maybe that one's too obvious.

U2's MLK? wasn't the song originally supposed to be about someone nasty, like Hitler? but as the song developed Bono did a complete 180, and while he may have kept some of the lyrics, song ended up going into completely different direction. i think while this is very drastic example, many songs may start inspired by one thing, and have many twists and turns till they become a complete song.

especially with LB, remember he would tear down the sentence into words and give people around him to construct sentences around each word? maybe there are some words he just starts from or throws in when he's lazy?

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by elle

i also think that LB sometimes just throws words in that he likes, or that sound good to him, or that are just swirling in his head for no particular reason (like because SN uses them so much and they sound good or mysterious? ).

I love the fact you think he has actually learned something from Stevie.

remember, some of Love Runs Deeper words that you quoted came from KB (and are some of his most pedestrian and bland lyrics imo - KB!).

and not just that lol - gift of screws if nothing else comes to mind. he loves loves loves double entendre... and almost every time one of the meanings has to be very dirty / sexual . nobody thinks GOS is only about art and squeezing creative juices! (to the left to the right up and down and around... with some sex noises added into it. hmmm. yes. Emily Dickenson inspired art only.).

I always thought he was um, sticking it to the record company... on one side of the double meaning there, at least.

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I love the fact you think he has actually learned something from Stevie.

oh noooooooo

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I always thought he was um, sticking it to the record company... on one side of the double meaning there, at least.

there you go! yes another meaning. (although i'm sure if we discuss long enough, somebody will for sure come up withe conclusion that this song is exclusively about SN . )

talking about his obsessions... Surrender the Rain comes to mind pretty fast:
I've got to stop this obsession of revenge and fear
I've been running from everything I once held dear
And it feels so cold; it feels like sin
I've got to stop this obsession and start living again

some intepretations of STR lyrics here:
http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/...dertherain.htm

[Lindsfan]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

He alluded to it on his his Under the Skin Tour during the Cast Away Dreams Into. He would tell the story of his and his wife's argument New York after the Fleetwood Mac show he says this

"She had left to go back to L.A and I was sitting alone the hotel room thinking about what we talked about and it occurred to me that if you have held onto a dream, a goal, and idea for a long, long time it can be difficult to know when it is appropriate to let go of that and also it occurred to me that when you do finally come to that clarity it can be helpful to be left alone for while to mourn the loss of that idea and also to simultaneously celebrate what might come from having made that change".

Here's the video:

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsqPyoeq2M0

Thanks for the link, but as I said...I know the speech very well. And even as I read your transcript of it, I see nothing in it alluding to Stevie. It's just your interpretation of his words.

Originally Posted by elle

i have Cast Away Dreams interpretation a bit different from most other people... while looking at everything through the lens of a star-crossed love relationship is romantic, what seems to be a constant and most important thing to LB is music, his art and getting it out there through his musical career (remember young SN complaining he'd rather sleep with his guitar than her ?). repeated use of a word visionary, plans, and everything that you listed in your bullets above to me points towards him finally letting go of any plans to become commercially successful solo artist - we were discussing that in this thread:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpo...81&postcount=5

^^ THAT is what I think he meant. That would be my interpretation.

Originally Posted by Desiree

Well, it wouldn't be the only thing that didn't make sense....for example...my mind is boggled by the fact that any woman, girl friend or wife, could EVER in a million years sit thru a concert where said man sings songs of longing, lust, crashed dreams, when they come to get us we'll finally tell the truth...make amends, the stars are crazy, magic one, and on and on it goes about another woman, one who is obviously of extreme importance in his life! I find his songs to be pretty to the point. I mean each line would stab me in the heart, and it makes her, Kristin, look stupid. I really dislike it when women allow that behavior and look the other way...acting, real, half/half doesn't really matter. So go figure...but the baby being alluded to as a barricade...and DR, it's not being together, it's just following the rules...so fatalistic, kinda takes some of the shine off it all...maybe that's why they didn't't play it..I'm sorry...I think I'm rambling.

Well, I guess Kristen must just be more secure in herself and her husband than you are. Not everyone looks for drama in their lives


Kristen is stupid?? That is extremely presumptuous!! You don't know any of these people!! She's stupid, and yet she's got a successful business of her own, is married to a man that may other women on this earth would LOVE to be married to, has three happy, beautiful kids...and we're here on a chat forum LOL!! but really?? We should all be so stupid.

Originally Posted by elle

yes, that doesn't say absolutely anything about SN. clarity, loss of a dream, an idea... doesn't say it's about a person even.

see my post above, plus look at that whole thread i linked to for different interpretations. there are some really good ones there, once a person takes off S+L blinders.

Yep Obviously Lindsey and Stevie have a complicated relationship, blah blah blah, but that hardly means every word written by either one is about the other. As you stated elsewhere, some of their songs have multiple, or purposely ambiguous meanings. Others, not so much.

[elle]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Yes, I'm aware of that interpretation and, for sure, a lot of it may be about Anne. However, I find THESE (and a few others, to be honest, esp. the last verse) lyrics quite curious in terms of a set of VERY similar lyrics of Stevie's and they, to me, bely quite an interesting 'coincidence'.

We never took quite enough chances
We never had quite enough time
I did about a thousand dances
But nothing would change your mind

Say you will, say you will give me one more chance
At least give me time to change your mind
That always seems to heal the wounds, if I can
Get you to dance

hey something else just occurred to me - Rodeo is several years older than SYW. so if what you are saying is the case, SN ripped him off!

although i frankly think that pointing similarity of wording in these 2 songs is way over-interpreting it (and is very different from repeated use of words like underground, rooms falling, EAP, fire, and others you pointed out).

we should go back to interpreting Lindsey's lyrics in those old threads now that people like you who have some interesting things to say while not being close-minded are here! or talk about Sad Angel, Miss Fantasy, It Takes Time... which are written to SN, as LB has said too, but not necessarily about romantic couple-ship, especially Sad Angel being a complete call to arms on the work front.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by elle

or talk about Sad Angel, Miss Fantasy, It Takes Time... which are written to SN, as LB has said too, but not necessarily about romantic couple-ship, especially Sad Angel being a complete call to arms on the work front.

Yeah. I call all my coworkers "Angel" and "Baby" too.

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Yeah. I call all my coworkers "Angel" and "Baby" too.

you slept with your coworkers?

didn't he always call her angel?

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by elle

you slept with your coworkers?

didn't he always call her angel?

Uh, in a word - no. But nor would I still be referring to anyone with endearments if it had been over for "35 years"...

I have no idea - CAH said he called her angel so I'm sure it was recycled.