The Sunday Times: Excess all areas

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Much needed?

I wonder if Christine gave Stevie advice
on sleeping with Mick?

Well by that time she was no spring chicken, and/or naïve little flower.

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

Desiree you could be my new BF. I've seen several of your post. Your honest and you say what you think (regardless of what anyone thinks) and I really respect that type of attitude. Keep it up the world need more honesty in it.

Thank you, Deeshere, my new BF . I just say what I think and try not to say what I can't back up. If I'm wrong about something, I have no trouble saying so and making it right. But, I'll try hard to persuade you if I think I'm truly right One of the best things about getting older for me has been the sure knowledge that I've grown from my experiences. I don't have to be right, heck, no one does. Just live and learn. And respect everyone's differences of opinion, at least really listen...you just might learn something, right?

[SteveMacD]

I think saying Lindsey "blames" Christine for the break-up is probably a little strong.

Stevie and Lindsey's relationship was pretty rocky when they joined Fleetwood Mac as it was. After they joined, Lindsey didn't have complete control over everything anymore, which had to be empowering for Stevie. It put her on equal footing with Lindsey. Christine and John were only nominally married at that point, and I think seeing what Christine was doing gave Stevie the courage to do the same. The bottom line is that Stevie wouldn't have split with Lindsey if she was happy with their relationship, and I don't think Christine had any input on THAT point.

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think saying Lindsey "blames" Christine for the break-up is probably a little strong.

Stevie and Lindsey's relationship was pretty rocky when they joined Fleetwood Mac as it was. After they joined, Lindsey didn't have complete control over everything anymore, which had to be empowering for Stevie. It put her on equal footing with Lindsey. Christine and John were only nominally married at that point, and I think seeing what Christine was doing gave Stevie the courage to do the same. The bottom line is that Stevie wouldn't have split with Lindsey if she was happy with their relationship, and I don't think Christine had any input on THAT point.

yup, that's what LB said here, among i'm sure many other times:

Originally Posted by elle

when asked about rumours era recording experience he said how stevie and christine were egging each other on about being unhappy with their respective relationships and leaving him and JMV and that if SN and CM weren't together in the similar situation maybe those relationships could've still been salvaged or at least dragged on for a while longer. he also said that his and stevie's relationship was on the rocks for a while before that, that she was moving away from him and the way it sounded was like he's thinking he was gonna be dumped sooner or later anyway.

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpo...0&postcount=85

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Well by that time she was no spring chicken, and/or naïve little flower.

Somehow, I don't think Stevie ever needed schooling in sex...she seemed to have that down relatively early on according to statements made about her moving upward with it's, uh...help! And, please, I make no judgements about Stevie's choices or anyone else's for that matter. Just repeating what's already out there.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think saying Lindsey "blames" Christine for the break-up is probably a little strong.

Stevie and Lindsey's relationship was pretty rocky when they joined Fleetwood Mac as it was. After they joined, Lindsey didn't have complete control over everything anymore, which had to be empowering for Stevie. It put her on equal footing with Lindsey. Christine and John were only nominally married at that point, and I think seeing what Christine was doing gave Stevie the courage to do the same. The bottom line is that Stevie wouldn't have split with Lindsey if she was happy with their relationship, and I don't think Christine had any input on THAT point.

True, but LB has said that he felt it may have been worked out, if Stevie had not had Christine to commiserate with about their men, meaning something Stevie may not have made a big deal out of suddenly became a big deal since Christine was I'm sure griping to her about John and Stevie probably wanted to have something in common with Chris.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Desiree

Somehow, I don't think Stevie ever needed schooling in sex...she seemed to have that down relatively early on according to statements made about her moving upward with it's, uh...help! And, please, I make no judgements about Stevie's choices or anyone else's for that matter. Just repeating what's already out there.

No judgements taken... I was just adding...

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

True, but LB has said that he felt it may have been worked out, if Stevie had not had Christine to commiserate with about their men, meaning something Stevie may not have made a big deal out of suddenly became a big deal since Christine was I'm sure griping to her about John and Stevie probably wanted to have something in common with Chris.

I don't think either one of them (Christine or Stevie) could change the outcomes of either relationship. Egging on, sure... but you can never really talk a friend in or out of a relationship.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I don't think either one of them (Christine or Stevie) could change the outcomes of either relationship. Egging on, sure... but you can never really talk a friend in or out of a relationship.

Well, friends can certainly encourage a person to either work on the relationship or convince you all men are pigs. And, if you are a people pleaser and are seeking approval from someone who is older and you look up to, sometimes you make decisions that you wouldn't necessarily make if you didn't have that influence / example in your life.

I think that's what LB was saying. The influence was there for Stevie and it made their situation worse, in his eyes.

[Deeshere]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I don't think either one of them (Christine or Stevie) could change the outcomes of either relationship. Egging on, sure... but you can never really talk a friend in or out of a relationship.

That is true. If a relationship is solid then it doesn't matter what someone says to you, you try and work your problems out together.

Stevie and Lindsey have both said that even before Fleetwood Mac they had problems. I think Stevie left Lindsey once or twice (well I guess 2 times because after joining Fleetwood mac she left him for the 3rd time and he's never going back ) before they joined Fleetwood Mac.

However, both Stevie and Lindsey think thier problems that were fixable, because both Lindsey and Stevie have recently come out and said that they both believe that if they never joined Fleetwood Mac, they would have stayed together, gotten married and had kids (I know during the Oprah interview she said they may have gotten married and had kids, but in her last interview she seemed pretty certain it would have happened).

Now I would not say Christine broke them up. Again, if you are happy, no one can tear your relationship up, also Stevie was most definitely an adult and is very stubborn, so if she wanted to stay with Lindsey she most definitely would have.

However, Chris & Stevie obviously spent many nights together talking about the unhappy state of their relationships, hiding in each other's room and most likely telling each other to dump their husband/partner and move on which they both did.

I'm not sure how close Stevie and John were back in the early days ( I know she adores him now) but, in the early days John was drinking heavily and he had his mate Mick there to talk to about his problems, so I think they were just working friends)

But Lindsey has said that from the very beginning he felt a cosmic connection with Chris and they were actually pretty good friends. You can see them joking around and working quite well together. So I can see that his feelings would be hurt (as I think mine would be) if you found out that someone you liked, admired and felt a friendship towards was telling your partner that they need to get out of your relationship, rather than trying to help you out, by telling them to try and talk it out.

I say talk it out, because again Stevie is now coming out and saying Lindsey did not know how unhappy she was in the relationship or even why she was so unhappy when she left him. So it kind of seems to me if the two of them had actually talked about their problems in the beginning, they might still be together and that is why Lindsey for some reason keeps bringing it up.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

Stevie and Lindsey have both said that even before Fleetwood Mac they had problems. I think Stevie left Lindsey once or twice (well I guess 2 times because after joining Fleetwood mac she left him for the 3rd time and he's never going back ) before they joined Fleetwood Mac.

Wasn't the "3rd time" added later in live versions and not in the recorded version?

Now I would not say Christine broke them up....

However, Chris & Stevie obviously spent many nights together talking about the unhappy state of their relationships, hiding in each other's room and most likely telling each other to dump their husband/partner and move on which they both did.

Yeah, Christine didn't break them up. But, under the influence of some wine, did she point out things about Lindsey that she thought Stevie shouldn't have to put up with and tell her she was young and point out that she wasn't tied (married) to him anyway and she should play the field? Probably. Or Stevie could have just noticed what a great time Christine was having with Curry Grant and realize what a drag it was to always have Lindsey breathing down her neck about her socializing...

But Lindsey has said that from the very beginning he felt a cosmic connection with Chris and they were actually pretty good friends. You can see them joking around and working quite well together. So I can see that his feelings would be hurt (as I think mine would be) if you found out that someone you liked, admired and felt a friendship towards was telling your partner that they need to get out of your relationship, rather than trying to help you out, by telling them to try and talk it out.

But the guys were all holed up in their own place with a bunch of girls, partying too. So, while Stevie is commiserating with Chris, Lindsey is commiserating with John...

[Deeshere]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Wasn't the "3rd time" added later in live versions and not in the recorded version?

But the guys were all holed up in their own place with a bunch of girls, partying too. So, while Stevie is commiserating with Chris, Lindsey is commiserating with John...

You maybe right, I did see an old 76 video and I think in the video he only sang 2 times so I guess the 3 times came later. I seems Stevie and Lindsey were on again and off again for a good long time. Stevie's Journal dated August 24, 1977 said that Lindsey was being a A**Hole to her on the plane again and she could see their relationship was coming to and end.


Also, the guys were all holed up together after they finished recording for the night (a lot of times maybe 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning) and also on the bands day off (and I believe there were very few days off), but Lindsey and Chris saw each other just about every day in the studio while recording because they are both musicians and spent what 12-14 hours a day together when they were recording and working on songs.

Stevie was not there near as much, because she did not play an instrument and so my understanding is she would come to the studio when the band was recording the lyrics of a song or if they were working on her songs. I have read that lot of the time Stevie spend time by herself writing in lyrics and doing other things.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

You maybe right, I did see an old 76 video and I think in the video he only sang 2 times so I guess the 3 times came later. I seems Stevie and Lindsey were on again and off again for a good long time. Stevie's Journal dated August 24, 1977 said that Lindsey was being a A**Hole to her on the plane again and she could see their relationship was coming to and end.

Lol! Right! Thought she had realized that in '76 or '75 or '74...that was one really slow end, because there they were being all couply again in '78...

Also, the guys were all holed up together after they finished recording for the night (a lot of times maybe 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning) and also on the bands day off (and I believe there were very few days off), but Lindsey and Chris saw each other just about every day in the studio while recording because they are both musicians and spent what 12-14 hours a day together when they were recording and working on songs.

Stevie was not there near as much, because she did not play an instrument and so my understanding is she would come to the studio when the band was recording the lyrics of a song or if they were working on her songs. I have read that lot of the time Stevie spend time by herself writing in lyrics and doing other things.

But, even during Rumours & Tusk eras she was around a lot more than Mirage and obviously Tango.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think saying Lindsey "blames" Christine for the break-up is probably a little strong.

Stevie and Lindsey's relationship was pretty rocky when they joined Fleetwood Mac as it was. After they joined, Lindsey didn't have complete control over everything anymore, which had to be empowering for Stevie. It put her on equal footing with Lindsey. Christine and John were only nominally married at that point, and I think seeing what Christine was doing gave Stevie the courage to do the same. The bottom line is that Stevie wouldn't have split with Lindsey if she was happy with their relationship, and I don't think Christine had any input on THAT point.

I agree with this. The way I imagine it, I would find it unlikely that Christine actually encouraged Stevie to leave so much as just having someone to commiserate with who was also separating made it seem (to Stevie) like it wouldn't be such a risky thing to do for the band's stability.

Stevie said that she had been trying to hold it together ever since she and Lindsey joined the band and, if they hadn't gotten that offer from Mick, I think she would have walked anyway, at least temporarily, as she had in the past (although she has said that when her parents sent her back to school, they would have supported Lindsey too, if need be). Being in FM and having that initial success probably kept them together a little longer, because she didn't want to endanger that income and exposure. And when Christine left John without planning to break up the band, Stevie probably felt more strongly that she could leave without everything falling apart for FM too.

She repeats that they weren't about to let the men force them out of the band (i.e. when she talks about Think About It). I think having someone else breaking up at the same time made her more certain that she could eave Lindsey without it resulting in her being kicked out of FM.

I think Christine's influence sprang more from the fact that she left John and Stevie had that example of how things would play out if she left too, rather than from Christine advising Stevie to leave anyone.

Michele

[applebucked]

True.

Besides, Christine doesn't seem the type who would advise her on those aspects. If there's something wrong musically, maybe. But on these kinds of things?