Stevie Nicks Disappointed With Sales Of Her Latest Album

[vivfox]

SaidSomething's post #132 and Sparky's post #134, I applaud the both of you for your well written, very enjoyed philosophies.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by Dex

I think HejiraNYC's main point

Ed could very well be my spokesman. I agree 99.5% with everything he says.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by Dex

Sparky, that was a great post. I do have to say that I think HejiraNYC's main point about some fundamental differences between Tina and Stevie was fair, though. The heart of Stevie's recording career, as I see it, has usually been that she's written songs, she loves them, and she wants to share them with people. As you point out, she has been very compromising as an artist in the name of commercial interest, especially at certain points in her career. But I think there is still a difference between her releases and the out-and-out constructed-by-committee releases of post-70s Tina. There's nothing superior about Stevie's career or output, but there is a difference there that should be recognized. Although saying they're completely incomparable, and especially saying that Tina isn't "an artist", are huge overstatements.

And I'd like to add Gypsy and Leather and Lace to your list of culturally important Stevie songs, please (and I'd argue against the inclusion of Stand Back). I actually think, though, that most of the great songwriters you mentioned don't really have a much bigger list of songs that made a big cultural impact, and a lot of them have released some serious clunkers along with their great stuff, much like Stevie.

I think "Sara" is equally stellar and important as well.

[peer_gynt10]

Originally Posted by sparky

And talk about shoehorning! Stevie has been wearing crippling corsets since the Tango tour, and often dons wigs and shoulder pads to enhance the illusion of having a real waist. If she could get away with anything more than what she does, she would.

Just out of curiosity: When did Stevie wear a wig and are there any pictures? Thanks.

[The Catdancer]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Exactly. I was at that weird Marx-Nicks show. They had to shut down the upper ring of the arena and they curtained it. the show was seated, on loose chairs, because we never do that in AHOY, Rotterdam. It was a bit of a sad atmosphere, although she did some songs that came out great, HAEWAFY, Edge of 17, the whole show was lackluster. She almost fell from stage, I was in awe that I saw her live, but was very dissapointed too. She never totally won me back since then. In the Netherlands, in the public eye she indeed is still the beautiful girl from GYOW.
OK, and Dreams and a little bit from Sara.

It was a weird show, wasn't it?! I remember seeing all the folding chairs in the arena and thought that was totally stupid because people want to stand on them and they might hurt themselves. Later on I heard she wanted chairs in the arena so chairs we got. Plus the curtains on the upper ring, she probably never knew it wasn't sold out. It was a sad performance, the band and back up singers did all they could to save it. I wasn't disappointed, I was worried about her because clearly something was seriously wrong. Of course now we know she was spaced out on Klonopin, had no idea at the time.

I'm slowly moving away from her now. I don't care that she can't hit the high notes anymore, that's fine, but that's not a reason why she shouldn't get into the music anymore. If you watch the old footage she was all over the stage. I know she has bad eyesight and is almost 65 but even with her glasses she hardly moves. She was right when she said in a 2013 interview:"All I do is stand there, sing my songs and twirl every once in a while". It's like she's not into it anymore and the same goes for her solo performances. It's like something is holding her back.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by The Catdancer

It was a weird show, wasn't it?! I remember seeing all the folding chairs in the arena and thought that was totally stupid because people want to stand on them and they might hurt themselves. Later on I heard she wanted chairs in the arena so chairs we got. Plus the curtains on the upper ring, she probably never knew it wasn't sold out. It was a sad performance, the band and back up singers did all they could to save it. I wasn't disappointed, I was worried about her because clearly something was seriously wrong. Of course now we know she was spaced out on Klonopin, had no idea at the time.

I'm slowly moving away from her now. I don't care that she can't hit the high notes anymore, that's fine, but that's not a reason why she shouldn't get into the music anymore. If you watch the old footage she was all over the stage. I know she has bad eyesight and is almost 65 but even with her glasses she hardly moves. She was right when she said in a 2013 interview:"All I do is stand there, sing my songs and twirl every once in a while". It's like she's not into it anymore and the same goes for her solo performances. It's like something is holding her back.

I think she has back or hip problems (I can't remember which) that are the reason she doesn't run around the stage like she's 30.

[The Catdancer]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

I think she has back or hip problems (I can't remember which) that are the reason she doesn't run around the stage like she's 30.

She doesn't have to run around onstage like she's 30, I know she's got hip problems but she could get into the music a little more like at her birthday party at The Wiltern or when she performed with the Sound City Players. She was having fun.

[AnthonyMI]

Originally Posted by sparky

This explains all of the following.....The huge hair in the RAL videos. The fishnet gloves. The fishnet stockings in the Mirage tour video...prominent when she spins at the end of SOTM and you can see her As*. The dangling boobs in the ICW video. The colored hair stripes. The merry widow corset in the Seven Wonders video with the pressed together and offered forth implant breasts. The sky high pre-post-current hooker platform boots in the Rumours/Tusk/WH till her feet gave out eras. The pouty CFM looks in ALL her photo shoots. The splayed out photoshopped waist pose on the piano on The Dance cover. The Crystal Visions Tusk outtake side boob pouty cover shot. The eerie prepubescent looking photoshop nightmare that was the IYD album cover......and the MINISKIRTS on the Tango tour.

OMG! I just realized....after 15 years...I'm not gay at all! I love Stevie because she is a skankyho temptress and I have a subconscious desire to have my way with her! I don't want to BE Stevie Nicks, I want to marry her!!!! Thanks for finally helping me see that.
now can we talk more about Stevie's boobs please?

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by peer_gynt10

Just out of curiosity: When did Stevie wear a wig and are there any pictures? Thanks.

Oh lawd! There are lots of them - like the cover of Timespace, for one.

[peer_gynt10]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

Oh lawd! There are lots of them - like the cover of Timespace, for one.

I'm shivering... And not in a good way.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Dex

Sparky, that was a great post. .

Thanks.

But I think there is still a difference between her releases and the out-and-out constructed-by-committee releases of post-70s Tina. .

I have no idea how constructed by committee singles releases Stevie has had. But I do believe you underestimate the influence of label heads. I cannot imagine that every single release Stevie has ever released was not at least somewhat committee related. It is a record company. It is all done by committee.

And I'd like to add Gypsy and Leather and Lace to your list of culturally important Stevie songs, please (and I'd argue against the inclusion of Stand Back). I actually think, though, that most of the great songwriters you mentioned don't really have a much bigger list of songs that made a big cultural impact, and a lot of them have released some serious clunkers along with their great stuff, much like Stevie.

I cannot include those, actually. I think Gypsy is so inextricably related to Stevie that no one could ever record a decent cover. It is simply inseparable from her persona. Time may prove me wrong - I used to think that about GDW and the Chain also. And that has not been the case.

As far and L and L goes, I personally think it is a wretched song. I hate it. So I cannot call it a chestnut or a standard. The stereotypical weak woman strong man stuff rubs me the wrong way. So much about it makes my skin crawl. That is all personal. Maybe it is much better than I think it was, but it simply induces my gag reflex. Which believe it or not, is still quite healthy. Considering my life, that is impressive. Believe me. Or perhaps unfortunate, depending on the night.

You may have a point with the numbers on those other writers. But some of them have had such a voluminous output (Dolly has over 3000 published songs) and others have much better consistency of quality, that I do not consider her in the same league. Dylan birthed a generation with his style. Joni never sold a lot of records, true, and never had a bunch of hits. But she even inspired Stevie. If one listens to the entire Mitchell catalogue, it is impossible to not be stunned. Take away the crazy tunings. Just listen to her Travelogue record, and those orchestral arrangements will take your breath away.
Stevie does not have the same depth to her catalogue, nor the skill to translate them to orchestral pieces. Landslide is cute with an orchestra. I have heard it live. The MSO concerts that Stevie did, quite miserably I might add, only drive this home. Maybe that was the problem of not hiring a decent arranger. But I doubt anything she has written has the oomph that Joni could crank out on Slouching Towards Bethlehem, Hejira, or even the later composition Sex Kills. Those recordings will blow your socks off.

I am not trying to slight Stevie. I adore her. For gods sake I have seen her going on 40 times live. I have met the woman numerous times. But I think I have a realistic notion of where she fits in the pantheon of 2oth century songwriters. I do not fault her what she is not, and I certainly love her dearly for what she is. I try to draw a line between the two.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by sparky

Thanks.
I have no idea how constructed by committee singles releases Stevie has had. But I do believe you underestimate the influence of label heads. I cannot imagine that every single release Stevie has ever released was not at least somewhat committee related. It is a record company. It is all done by committee.

Maybe. But not to the extent that Tina's work has been. Stevie's albums always have some very not-commercial not-pop songs that a Tina album simply wouldn't. They aren't catchy and they don't follow the verse-chorus-verse song structure. Actually... Thinking on it that only applies to her first 3 or 4 solo albums, but I think it's noteworthy. Those songs are there because Stevie wrote them and she loves them and they resonate with a certain audience despite commercial expectations. She got the rambling hot mess that is No Questions Asked on an album called "Greatest Hits" after all.

I cannot include those, actually. I think Gypsy is so inextricably related to Stevie that no one could ever record a decent cover. It is simply inseparable from her persona. Time may prove me wrong - I used to think that about GDW and the Chain also. And that has not been the case.

As far and L and L goes, I personally think it is a wretched song. I hate it. So I cannot call it a chestnut or a standard. The stereotypical weak woman strong man stuff rubs me the wrong way. So much about it makes my skin crawl. That is all personal. Maybe it is much better than I think it was, but it simply induces my gag reflex. Which believe it or not, is still quite healthy. Considering my life, that is impressive. Believe me. Or perhaps unfortunate, depending on the night.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were getting at in your initial post. I'm no great fan of L & L either, (although I wouldn't call it wretched) but it is an important song in the popular consciousness. People sing it at weddings constantly, it gets loads of radio airplay in North America, etc. Tacky or no, it's up there.

You may have a point with the numbers on those other writers. But some of them have had such a voluminous output (Dolly has over 3000 published songs) and others have much better consistency of quality, that I do not consider her in the same league. Dylan birthed a generation with his style. Joni never sold a lot of records, true, and never had a bunch of hits. But she even inspired Stevie. If one listens to the entire Mitchell catalogue, it is impossible to not be stunned. Take away the crazy tunings. Just listen to her Travelogue record, and those orchestral arrangements will take your breath away.
Stevie does not have the same depth to her catalogue, nor the skill to translate them to orchestral pieces. Landslide is cute with an orchestra. I have heard it live. The MSO concerts that Stevie did, quite miserably I might add, only drive this home. Maybe that was the problem of not hiring a decent arranger. But I doubt anything she has written has the oomph that Joni could crank out on Slouching Towards Bethlehem, Hejira, or even the later composition Sex Kills. Those recordings will blow your socks off.

Joni Mitchell is fabulous, yes. I won't pretend that Stevie is on the same level as her in terms of sheer talent. I hope that Stevie doesn't imagine herself to be, either (although who knows, with her). But if you're talking about contributions to some abstract pop-rock songbook of the general consciousness, as I thought you were initially, I don't think she has contributed more than Stevie. Certainly in terms of a prestigious body of work, though, Stevie loses out majorly. Probably regarding Bob Dylan as well, though I'm not as familiar with his catalogue.

Dolly I'm genuinely not so sure about. She has so many published recordings, sure, but I don't think she's written even half of them. And there are only about 6 Dolly albums out of who-knows-how-many that I'd actually feel comfortable recommending to others. I've heard enough bad Dolly songs to last a lifetime. I put her on more-or-less the same level as Stevie. They're not serious songwriting geniuses. Both are very prolific writers that bang out songs almost daily and occasionally get it really, really right.


I know you're not slighting Stevie in the least. Far from it. I just think it's fair to categorize her differently from a straight-up pop star. She's certainly not some uncompromising artiste, but at heart she's a singer-songwriter even still, and I don't want that to go unsaid.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by TheSorcerer

There's a lot of amazing music being made out there today, you just have to look past the top 40 to find a lot of it. HAIM, Lissie, Fossil Collective, First Aid Kit, Mat Kearney, Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, Imagine Dragons, Florence + the Machine, Kathleen Edwards, Lauren Aquilina, Phoenix are just a few examples. It's not like there wasn't crap music released back in the 1980s.

Here's a comment from Lissie about Stevie, when she's compared to Stevie.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/361443

Yet another tune that she loves is "Further Away," where her vocals are reminiscent to those of Stevie Nicks. "I find Stevie to be an amazing goddess," she said. "I wasn't influenced by her so much though. In my formative years I was inspired to learn guitar and write my own songs through Liz Phair, Sheryl Crow and Alanis Morissette."

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz2jjUL7OoL

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by Dex

Maybe. But not to the extent that Tina's work has been. Stevie's albums always have some very not-commercial not-pop songs that a Tina album simply wouldn't. They aren't catchy and they don't follow the verse-chorus-verse song structure. Actually... Thinking on it that only applies to her first 3 or 4 solo albums, but I think it's noteworthy. Those songs are there because Stevie wrote them and she loves them and they resonate with a certain audience despite commercial expectations. She got the rambling hot mess that is No Questions Asked on an album called "Greatest Hits" after all.





Perhaps I misunderstood what you were getting at in your initial post. I'm no great fan of L & L either, (although I wouldn't call it wretched) but it is an important song in the popular consciousness. People sing it at weddings constantly, it gets loads of radio airplay in North America, etc. Tacky or no, it's up there.



Joni Mitchell is fabulous, yes. I won't pretend that Stevie is on the same level as her in terms of sheer talent. I hope that Stevie doesn't imagine herself to be, either (although who knows, with her). But if you're talking about contributions to some abstract pop-rock songbook of the general consciousness, as I thought you were initially, I don't think she has contributed more than Stevie. Certainly in terms of a prestigious body of work, though, Stevie loses out majorly. Probably regarding Bob Dylan as well, though I'm not as familiar with his catalogue.

Dolly I'm genuinely not so sure about. She has so many published recordings, sure, but I don't think she's written even half of them. And there are only about 6 Dolly albums out of who-knows-how-many that I'd actually feel comfortable recommending to others. I've heard enough bad Dolly songs to last a lifetime. I put her on more-or-less the same level as Stevie. They're not serious songwriting geniuses. Both are very prolific writers that bang out songs almost daily and occasionally get it really, really right.


I know you're not slighting Stevie in the least. Far from it. I just think it's fair to categorize her differently from a straight-up pop star. She's certainly not some uncompromising artiste, but at heart she's a singer-songwriter even still, and I don't want that to go unsaid.

Stevie is a culturally important rock star. She bridged the gap between female rock stars that were uncomfortable with their stardom - Joni, Carly, Carol, and those female rock stars that loved their stardom - Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi Lauper, Janet. She was strong but feminine.
However, unlike Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi and Janet ….She was icon that didn't do a lot of press until she turned 50. Unlike Carly, Joni and Carol, Stevie loved superstardom and embraced her persona.

The only person I think you can successfully compare Stevie to is Jim Morrison of the Doors. They both possessed that "IT" quality. He was the Lizard King. She is the Gypsy Queen. He wore his leather pants all the time and Stevie wears her get up and "boots all summer long." They were both mystics. Along with Jim Morrison, Stevie helped invent Mystic Rock and did it more successfully than him. They are like cult leaders and their music is all about charisma and belief.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Stevie is a culturally important rock star. She bridged the gap between female rock stars that were uncomfortable with their stardom - Joni, Carly, Carol, and those female rock stars that loved their stardom - Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi Lauper, Janet. She was strong but feminine.
However, unlike Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi and Janet ….She was icon that didn't do a lot of press until she turned 50. Unlike Carly, Joni and Carol, Stevie loved superstardom and embraced her persona.

The only person I think you can successfully compare Stevie to is Jim Morrison of the Doors. They both possessed that "IT" quality. He was the Lizard King. She is the Gypsy Queen. He wore his leather pants all the time and Stevie wears her get up and "boots all summer long." They were both mystics. Along with Jim Morrison, Stevie helped invent Mystic Rock and did it more successfully than him. They are like cult leaders and their music is all about charisma and belief.

You've framed Stevie in a way I don't think I've ever seen anyone frame her. Very provocative... thanks for sharing your thoughts.