Stevie discusses Possible New

[TheWILDheart]

Originally Posted by mitzo

A lot of us thought the SYW songs were her best in decades, thanks massively to Lindsey's touch. Amazing how tastes differ, but her SYW work ended up infinitely better than TISL.

I both agree and disagree MASSIVELY with this.

Stevie's songs on SYW, I thought, were fantastic and some of the best she's ever written - "Destiny Rules", "Thrown Down", "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out" were classic Stevie, but sounded modern and fresh.

However, infinitely better than TISL? I couldn't disagree more. TISL, for me, has always been perfection of the highest order.

Stevie's post-2000 output has been far more consistent and solid than anything she did between 1984 and 1996, reminisent of her 1974 - 1983 years.

[mitzo]

Originally Posted by TheWILDheart

I both agree and disagree MASSIVELY with this.

Stevie's songs on SYW, I thought, were fantastic and some of the best she's ever written - "Destiny Rules", "Thrown Down", "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out" were classic Stevie, but sounded modern and fresh.

However, infinitely better than TISL? I couldn't disagree more. TISL, for me, has always been perfection of the highest order.

Stevie's post-2000 output has been far more consistent and solid than anything she did between 1984 and 1996, reminisent of her 1974 - 1983 years.

I know this is sidetracking the thread a bit, but we seem to often go down this path about solo vs Fm Stevie quality. I firmly feel that the big difference between TISL and SYW is consistency of quality. TISL to me has several stellar moments surrounded by wastelands of yuckiness, whereas on SYW she is consistently strong.

My opinion is that even though Lindsey drives her nuts, he is able to build miracles out of her material that other producers do not - he draws out strong vocal performances and capitalizes on the hooks and atmosphere of her poetry and melodies in ways others have not. I think solo, some of the real weaknesses of her songs and vocal stylings are allowed to hang out in your face, whereas with FM the strengths of the songs and vocals are highlighted.

Sorry to sidetrack. But this opinion is a basis of the sorrow and frustration many of us feel when we hear Stevie being negative about recording with FM - we fear that we will never get the great songs and performances anymore, just Dave Stewart co-written pop, or a dog's breakfast of mediocrity with other producers.

There are only a few years left to craft another "Sara" or "Gypsy" or "Seven Wonders" or "Silver Springs" or "Thrown Down."

[Ulpian]

Originally Posted by mitzo

I know this is sidetracking the thread a bit, but we seem to often go down this path about solo vs Fm Stevie quality. I firmly feel that the big difference between TISL and SYW is consistency of quality. TISL to me has several stellar moments surrounded by wastelands of yuckiness, whereas on SYW she is consistently strong.

My opinion is that even though Lindsey drives her nuts, he is able to build miracles out of her material that other producers do not - he draws out strong vocal performances and capitalizes on the hooks and atmosphere of her poetry and melodies in ways others have not. I think solo, some of the real weaknesses of her songs and vocal stylings are allowed to hang out in your face, whereas with FM the strengths of the songs and vocals are highlighted.

Sorry to sidetrack. But this opinion is a basis of the sorrow and frustration many of us feel when we hear Stevie being negative about recording with FM - we fear that we will never get the great songs and performances anymore, just Dave Stewart co-written pop, or a dog's breakfast of mediocrity with other producers.

There are only a few years left to craft another "Sara" or "Gypsy" or "Seven Wonders" or "Silver Springs" or "Thrown Down."

^ YES.

I liked several tracks from TISL very much, but a fair few of the tracks were dull, and -- perhaps controversially -- I feel the same about IYD. Much as I thought SYW was bloated, the Stevie material was never dull, save for 'Silver Girl'. Lindsey, principally, as well as Mick, John and Christine, can bring out something almost ineffable in Stevie's songs which I think noone else can. Fond as I am of some of her solo work that is why, for me, it will never hold a candle to her work with Fleetwood Mac.

[KenshiMaster16]

Originally Posted by TheWILDheart

I both agree and disagree MASSIVELY with this.

Stevie's songs on SYW, I thought, were fantastic and some of the best she's ever written - "Destiny Rules", "Thrown Down", "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out" were classic Stevie, but sounded modern and fresh.

However, infinitely better than TISL? I couldn't disagree more. TISL, for me, has always been perfection of the highest order.

Stevie's post-2000 output has been far more consistent and solid than anything she did between 1984 and 1996, reminisent of her 1974 - 1983 years.

I agree with this. Songs like Destiny Rules, Thrown Down, Everybody Finds Out and Running Through The Garden are the stand outs for me. But then we got a 'meh' version of Smile At You and Silver Girl, which I think I've only listening to in full once when the album first came out and never again.

If they were to do a Mac album, she needs a perfect blend of those four, some Trouble In Shangri-La and some In Your Dreams. It'd really help, I think, if Lindsey stepped aside and let Dave come in to produce BUT at this stage of the game, I really don't think it matters as we all KNOW (despite their differences) that Lindsey can have the Midas touch with Stevie songs in certain circumstances.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by sparky

"Lindsey left the band in 1987 and I haven't worked with him since. I learned how to work without him really well. As I told him, 'I don't need you to make my music come true, anymore.' I've been growing in new directions and, although I love him, in so many ways, doing a full album with him is like going backwards for me. I respect his talent immensely, that's why I knew I had to have him do Soldier's Angel with me, because I know no one else could translate the ominous, brutal message I heard in my head onto disc the way he could. But for a full album, I think we've moved too far apart to do our best work together any longer. I'd rather we just toured and had fun without the stress of battling to record 12 new Fleetwood Mac songs."

^
THIS.

I think this has a ring of truth. And for my money's worth, it is utterly and completely true. The Stevie SYW songs were subpar production wise. I don't think they worked at all. Any of them. I still can't shake that hideous Casio keyboard in Running Through The Garden. I thought it was a practical joke on first listen. So much of his production of her songs was a bungled modernization attempt, or a misguided throwback (why try and make SYW a modern version of Think About Me?). The only one I liked in terms of production was Everybody Finds Out and that belonged on a mix cd that would go straight to gay nightclubs. No pun intended. It stuck out like a sore gay thumb on a FM record.

As far as her pronouncement about people loving the new FM songs or no album is gonna happen, it makes sense. The enormous overhead of that clown show going into a studio is a money loser if people won't buy millions of copies. No way in hell will a new FM record sell millions of copies. Under any circumstance. And let's face it, FM is a business entity. It is clearly torturous for LB and SN to record music together, so why sacrifice a miserable year to do that when it won't even break even and most everyone pees and gets beer during the new songs? I don't blame them. Go out and pull your 600-750k guarantee a night. For the record, folks, I have done my pee and get a cocktail run during Rhiannon and Landslide for decades now, thank you very much. But never, ever, ever during GDW.

I think at this point, as far as SN is concerned, she would rather be the captain of her own ship when it comes to recording. She pulls legend rank on Stewart and Grohl, and almost anyone else she works with. I am sure the deference is intoxicating. Dave Grohl moons at her like a lovestruck teenager in those live videos. And who wouldn't? Oh. That would be Lindsey.

Why record a money losing record with FM when she can record with these people who worship her, and she can maintain creative control? What would you choose? The psychodrama of spending 8-10 months fighting with your now 35 years gone ex? Or spending the "best year of your life" with Dave Stewart? Please. You grab the tour money. You play the Daytime Drama Cheese moments with FM. (God knows here on the Ledge there is proof of the obsession with that moth eaten coke infused Fromeo and Shawliet story. Many fangirls with still viable eggs practically ovulate when those two so much as hold hands). So you dust off the Shakespeare and give the droves what they want. And then go do your own thing where you call all the shots.

For the record, I think IYD lost money too. Simple math. But at least it was her ship and she didn't suffer emotionally in the process.

God I have missed you.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by sparky

Go out and pull your 600-750k guarantee a night. For the record, folks, I have done my pee and get a cocktail run during Rhiannon and Landslide for decades now, thank you very much. But never, ever, ever during GDW.

Dave Grohl moons at her like a lovestruck teenager in those live videos. And who wouldn't? Oh. That would be Lindsey.

Based on the ticket prices I'd guess their nightly guarantee more like 1.5m-2m per show.

GDW is worth watching because it is done slightly differently every time. Like you, for me it is the one old song I hope they never drop. All the rest of them I've heard wayyyyy too many times.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by mitzo

There are only a few years left to craft another "Sara" or "Gypsy" or "Seven Wonders" or "Silver Springs" or "Thrown Down."

Sara=classic
Gypsy=classic
7W=classic
Silver Springs=classic

Thrown Down=fail(as in let me try and write a song that sounds exactly like Dreams with new words that should garnish me another it)yawn

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by sparky

^
As far as her pronouncement about people loving the new FM songs or no album is gonna happen, it makes sense. The enormous overhead of that clown show going into a studio is a money loser if people won't buy millions of copies. No way in hell will a new FM record sell millions of copies. Under any circumstance. And let's face it, FM is a business entity. It is clearly torturous for LB and SN to record music together, so why sacrifice a miserable year to do that when it won't even break even and most everyone pees and gets beer during the new songs?

I agree (sort of) but just wanted to point out that Lindsey has a home studio they could use. Little to no overhead. No huge studio bills. The guy probably has all the fancy equipment, too.

If Fleetwood Mac recorded like they meant it, instead of trying SO HARD to manufacture commercial hits for Warner, they could go in and walk out with an album 8 weeks later, and it would likely be amazing and real - and even better - playable on stage without the huge entourage.

Fleetwood Mac doesn't *need* to spend a year making an album. They don't need to spend 5 million dollars to record an album. It doesn't have to be some smoky, spiritual experience with cuddle time and long drawn out discussions about pronouns. They only have to *want* to record an album quickly and efficiently, and unfortunately I don't see it happening.

[RockawayBlind]

Undeniably, Stevie is a living legend. Unfortunately, that is the case more in her mind that in the real world. There are plenty of artists who are living legends and still manage to be humble. That is not the case with her. The fact that there is a perception that she can be happy recording only with people who worship her supports my belief she thinks way too highly of herself.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Stevie. She once was an amazing rocker who could write a damn good song. But there isn't enough quality output over the years from her to warrant the adulation she gets, in my opinion. None of her subsequent solo work has lived up to Bella Donna or some of her best FM contributions.

I don't begrudge her not wanting to record with FM. In fact, I am quite OK with it. I just wish she would be honest about what it is that bugs her. As Michele1 said, she doesn't want to go in the studio with those guys, and that's her prerogative, as far as I am concerned. She wants to make another IYD? Go for it. I actually like the album. But don't fool yourselves. She'll make one more record with Dave Stewart and then start finding reasons why she doesn't want to work with him anymore. It seems to be a pattern.

I do agree that Lindsey and Mick shouldn't pressure her to record. Really, what's the point? In the end, if she doesn't really want to do it, the work will be mediocre. Someone seemed to blame the subpar production on her SYW songs on Lindsey, yet we all saw how stubborn she was in the documentary about how she wanted her songs to sound. I think Lindsey got his way with some, but she did with others. So we get Michael Bolton-type production values with things like Silver Girl and Running through the Garden next to edgier stuff like Smile at You. I don't blame Lindsey for that. I blame the rotten dynamic they have when recording together. And that being the case, why even bother? Each should just go do what he/she wants.

But don't put it on the fans. Don't tell the fans they have to love the songs so you can go record more. That is probably the stupidest thing she has said... and there are so many instances to choose from.

[fairydust75]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

Undeniably, Stevie is a living legend. Unfortunately, that is the case more in her mind that in the real world. There are plenty of artists who are living legends and still manage to be humble. That is not the case with her. The fact that there is a perception that she can be happy recording only with people who worship her supports my belief she thinks way too highly of herself.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Stevie. She once was an amazing rocker who could write a damn good song. But there isn't enough quality output over the years from her to warrant the adulation she gets, in my opinion. None of her subsequent solo work has lived up to Bella Donna or some of her best FM contributions.

I don't begrudge her not wanting to record with FM. MIn fact, I am quite OK with it. I just wish she would be honest about what it is that bugs her. As Michele1 said, she doesn't want to go in the studio with those guys, and that's her prerogative, as far as I am concerned. She wants to make another IYD? Go for it. I actually like the album. But don't fool yourselves. She'll make one more record with Dave Stewart and then start finding reasons why she doesn't want to work with him anymore. It seems to be a pattern.

I do agree that Lindsey and Mick shouldn't pressure her to record. Really, what's the point? In the end, if she doesn't really want to do it, the work will be mediocre. Someone seemed to blame the subpar production on her SYW songs on Lindsey, yet we all saw how stubborn she was in the documentary about how she wanted her songs to sound. I think Lindsey got his way with some, but she did with others. So we get Michael Bolton-type production values with things like Silver Girl and Running through the Garden next to edgier stuff like Smile at You. I don't blame Lindsey for that. I blame the rotten dynamic they have when recording together. And that being the case, why even bother? Each should just go do what he/she wants.

But don't put it on the fans. Don't tell the fans they have to love the songs so you can go record more. That is probably the stupidest thing she has said... and there are so many instances to choose from.

Ok, If your not trying to bash her, then your doing a lousy job at it, lol. I think alot of current artist, think she's worthy of the admiration and want to work with her because she inspired them. Stevie has lost her mother and her young godson in a short period of time. She has been forced to face her mortality, being 65. She knows she only has a few short years left. Another chance at another "best year of her life" vs a lengthy world tour for the major bucks vs recorded a new FM album. She is just not sure what is best for her. Stevie is just too honest with her thoughts. Her doubt and fears are perfecrly normal. Maybe she should just keep it to herself, so everybody wont freak out. Stevie is just being Stevie, she is just fearful of devoting the time that it has taken in the past for the Mac to record and then the album flops. She is not going to be the one to End Fleetwood Mac...no matter what. Lets face it, there will not be a major world tour without her. Maybe something smaller with just the guys. Stevie is the key for what Lindsey and Mick want, whatever their true motive is $ for Mick, closure/reconnection of Buckingham Nicks for Lindsey. We all need to just relax and just let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully it will all work out...now that they are "finally grown up"...lol.

[jbrownsjr]

In my opinion, she has earned her right to call herself an artist. She has done a lot of work. If you've ever done an album, it's a lot of work. (Especially as a composer)

I'll say it again : At her age and with what she has accomplished (like it or not). She can do whatever the hell she wants. She's Stevie Nicks.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by sparky

^
THIS.

I think this has a ring of truth. And for my money's worth, it is utterly and completely true.

That's my Stevie Nicks impression ladies and gentlemen. You saw it here first. I'm taking it to NOTS.

Michele

[redbird]

Originally Posted by David

Fleetwood Mac recording was never about "Who wants to be here?" It was always about "Just show up and then grouse to the press."

Yes, it's probaby naive to expect Fleetwood Mac to behave differently than what they are.

Well, I've kind of accepted that a lot of my favorite artists who have been making music for 30 or 40 years peaked long ago, so I suppose I'm not that anxious about new Mac material or solo material. It'll be nice if it happens, but if it's only an EP I'm actually fine with that too as long as the music is good. They can always put it on an album later.

About SYW, I thought it sounded too modern and slick, but not so much that I totally disliked it, I was actually surprised at how much I did like it. It's still my 5th favorite out of the 6 B&N lineup albums though. I want to take a chainsaw to it and trim it down much more badly than with Tusk, there's 10 songs on there that would make a less dilutedly respectable offering. But I bet I'd pick a different 10 than other people, so there's always that whole thing about subjective taste.

If lightning never strikes again, for me it's not the end of the world. If they're still enjoying making music then that's a win (even more so if I like the music they're making), and maybe for Stevie it's with other people and maybe for the men of Mac it's with each other. I love the album format and I do wish it was embraced as an art form again, but the music won't necessarily end without it.

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by redbird

I love the album format and I do wish it was embraced as an art form again, but the music won't necessarily end without it.

Stevie & FM are rare in their attitude towards albums. They are in fact, one of the only artists I've heard using low sales as an excuse to not make albums. It just shows that's it's an excuse and not a reason.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

Stevie & FM are rare in their attitude towards albums. They are in fact, one of the only artists I've heard using low sales as an excuse to not make albums. It just shows that's it's an excuse and not a reason.

You're right- it's sort of a result of attaining meteoric success so early in their career. It spoiled them immensely (SN & LB). They lived the high life relatively soon after joining the band.