The worst of Stevie

[Hawkeye]

1. Fire burning
2. I still miss someone
3. Unconditional love
4. Everyday
5. Too far from Texas
6. The second time
7 affairs of the heart

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

Maybe most people feel the same way you do but simply don't take the time to express their opinion in detail.

I think so. I don't know if the lyrics are the last straw or first straw in disliking a song, but it's the one that's most easily grasped. I mean, Jane came up here too and I don't think people dislike that song just for the forgotten chimpanzee. It's just a shortcut way of expressing everything that's wrong. Silly words can make it so easy to instantly illustrate a point. I am, what I am, what I am: a family man.

Michele

[rhiannondontgo]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

MOST of Stevie's songs are bland an uninteresting at their core... luckily they also tend to at least have a nice melody and decent lyrics. And then someone comes in with their magic wand and creates a cool arrangement around what would have been a boring song - like Dreams.

I don't know about that. I find plenty of her demos quite special and very interesting and beautiful. Even slow ones. Like Knockin On Doors, China Doll, Julia, Blue Water, and LFTM.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Well, how something is sung matters just as much as what's sung. It's not only the repetition. It's the unvarying drone of the question. If Hold Me was being chanted on and on and on in a monotone, it'd be a different story. But the words are a demand, a plea, a hope. High, low, fast, slow.

Hold Me has a complex, diverse melody. Many things going on at once and different things going on in different parts of the song. It boasts a beautiful arrangement and, I think, superb plush production.

WISYA is just a meandering nudge. But I wouldn't have thought to compare the two.

Michele

well said.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by rhiannondontgo

I don't know about that. I find plenty of her demos quite special and very interesting and beautiful. Even slow ones. Like Knockin On Doors, China Doll, Julia, Blue Water, and LFTM.

Apparently I really shouldn't have mentioned any of her demos because people keep responding to the same comment I made lol. I love her demos, they're some of the most played stuff on my iTunes. But I'll repeat what I said earlier.

I'm not talking about the songs. I'm talking about their early arrangements and whether or not that has an effect on how they end up as a finished product. My post was in response to the insinuation that songs like WISYA or The Highwayman start out as 'bland' and 'uninteresting' and there's nothing anyone could have done to fix them. (For the record, The Highwayman is one of my favorite Stevie songs and I don't understand the hate, but that's a different story).

I don't agree, because I think most if not all of her songs start out as just shells of what they eventually become. And what FILLS those shells largely depends on who gets their hands on it, and that can be detrimental to the end product. That's not to say that the words and the melodies and the emotion aren't strong and interesting at the start - but the arrangements are not, because they really don't exist in the beginning. And the final arrangement can have a big effect on whether or not the compelling qualities of the early versions show through.

We all know there are songs that have started out wonderfully in their early forms and then turned out not so great as a finished product. Likewise, there are songs that have also started out good but have been greatly enhanced through the fleshing out of the arrangement and production.

And then there are songs that are just terrible all around. But I don't think they're terrible because they're bland. I tend to think they're terrible because the lyrics are too out there/nonsensical/cheesy, have terrible vocals, terrible production, etc. But that's just me.

Personally, I love what many people consider boring of Stevie's - like the Gypsy piano demo (I wouldn't go playing it at a party or anything. But I love it. It's interesting to me). I know some people think it's terrible, and yet, most people love the actual song as it appears on Mirage. But if it had ended up differently, would people be putting Gypsy on this list? Would the argument be made that it was bland from the start and it was just fated for disaster?

I'll reiterate that some of her songs definitely ARE terrible and I question why anyone ever thought it was a good idea to record them (hello, most of SA and OsoTM) . I just don't think it's entirely because they're 'uninteresting.'

[AncientQueen]

Talk to me - Stutter in a chorus, now really!
Love's a hard game to play - Klonopin was not her friend in this game
Whole lotta trouble - I HATED that one, generic, silly, stupid
Sometimes it's a bitch - It was bad enough to listen to her singing it, I really could have done without her complaining about it later.

and the absolute worst song ever:
Desert Angel. Lyrics, intention, music, her voice, the drama, the godawful photo of her in the flag-dress, her overall unability to get over herself - it really was an epic disaster to me. That one made me cringe.

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by AncientQueen

Talk to me - Stutter in a chorus, now really!
Love's a hard game to play - Klonopin was not her friend in this game
Whole lotta trouble - I HATED that one, generic, silly, stupid
Sometimes it's a bitch - It was bad enough to listen to her singing it, I really could have done without her complaining about it later.

and the absolute worst song ever:
Desert Angel. Lyrics, intention, music, her voice, the drama, the godawful photo of her in the flag-dress, her overall unability to get over herself - it really was an epic disaster to me. That one made me cringe.

One of my favorites of all. I love the melody.

I could take what you wrote, however, and apply it to "Gate And Garden". I still think this is the worst song she ever recorded. Talk about cheeeeeeeeeeseeeey.

It was also the very first SN song that I did not like. I had liked every song of hers that FM did, and every song on Bella Donna. So I was shocked when The Wild Heart came out and I heard "Gate and Garden". I listened to it again just to make sure I was really hearing what I was hearing. After that second time, I've never heard it again. I would practically break my neck flying across the room to get to the record player so I could move the needle before G&G started playing! It's funny how songs that annoy you stick with you; I haven't heard it since 1983, but I can still hear it in my head! I bet I remember most of the words, too. (There is a gate, it can be guarded, well it is not heaven, and it has a garden , so to the red rose.... AAAAHHHHH! )

[Macfanforever]

Just reading this thread is interesting and now everything is coming out how does a fan think about their favorite artists tunes.

I think this is a great concept if I was an artist and have a chance to hear what my fans have to say about my songs.

[peer_gynt10]

Originally Posted by AncientQueen

and the absolute worst song ever:
Desert Angel. Lyrics, intention, music, her voice, the drama, the godawful photo of her in the flag-dress, her overall unability to get over herself - it really was an epic disaster to me. That one made me cringe.

Thank you, thank you, thank you

[AncientQueen]

Originally Posted by seekerj

I could take what you wrote, however, and apply it to "Gate And Garden". I still think this is the worst song she ever recorded. Talk about cheeeeeeeeeeseeeey.
I bet I remember most of the words, too. (There is a gate, it can be guarded, well it is not heaven, and it has a garden , so to the red rose.... AAAAHHHHH! )

You make a strong point here. But - I really like Gate and Garden, even when I totally agree about the cheese When I listen to the album and this song comes on, I'm in need for something fluffy.

[bombaysaffires]

maybe some of these horrible lyric issues could have been avoided or improved if there was some willingness on Stevie's part to allow some capable editing...... even the greatest novelists, essayists, poets, journalists, whoever...have editors who read through and make some suggestions for improvement. Doesn't mean they have to accept all those suggestions, but to say " these words as I've written them are sooo sacred they can never be changed under any circumstances"....... that's just ego. No one's words are that spot-on every time. Sometimes one gets too close to one's work to be able to step back and hear it how a listener would hear it. I get the feeling her hard-ass stance on her words grew out of her relationship with Lindsey and the, shall we say, less-than-diplomatic approach he might have taken.
But honestly, lyrics like
"And the dream says I want you
And the dream is gone
So she stays up nights on end
Well at least there is a
dream left"

"And the angel said, "Well you must have had a dream...
And you remember it...
"Till the dream followed through...
Till the -- end of the dream...
and the dream came true"

could realllly have benefited from an editor. It seems like LB has been the only one who's ever had the guts to tackle this issue over the years; once she went solo no one wanted to rock the boat....

[bluefox4000]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

maybe some of these horrible lyric issues could have been avoided or improved if there was some willingness on Stevie's part to allow some capable editing...... even the greatest novelists, essayists, poets, journalists, whoever...have editors who read through and make some suggestions for improvement. Doesn't mean they have to accept all those suggestions, but to say " these words as I've written them are sooo sacred they can never be changed under any circumstances"....... that's just ego. No one's words are that spot-on every time. Sometimes one gets too close to one's work to be able to step back and hear it how a listener would hear it. I get the feeling her hard-ass stance on her words grew out of her relationship with Lindsey and the, shall we say, less-than-diplomatic approach he might have taken.
But honestly, lyrics like
"And the dream says I want you
And the dream is gone
So she stays up nights on end
Well at least there is a
dream left"

"And the angel said, "Well you must have had a dream...
And you remember it...
"Till the dream followed through...
Till the -- end of the dream...
and the dream came true"

could realllly have benefited from an editor. It seems like LB has been the only one who's ever had the guts to tackle this issue over the years; once she went solo no one wanted to rock the boat....

You know you just hit on my major issue with solo Stevie...with the Mac she was forced to be edited a little. Solo I feel like she was given free reign which I do understand. But no one had the guts sometimes to say "Stevie? um....no." Her albums are WAY to long with songs that are great meandering. While others could be cut entirly. I've been called out for dumping on her, but that's my main Issue

Mick

[BombaySapphire3]

I actually think that early on Jimmy Iovine did a pretty decent job of editing her which probably partially explains why he was given the boot as she became more grandiose and coked out.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

I actually think that early on Jimmy Iovine did a pretty decent job of editing her which probably partially explains why he was given the boot as she became more grandiose and coked out.

totally agree, it was like crazy bitch alert!

[On Ice]

I agree that Gate and Garden was one of the many lyrical missteps on the Wild Heart, but the way she sang the song, almost redeems the sloppy job she did with the song's lyrics.