FM/LB "What If" NO FM After 1992

[David A]

Hello All

I know playing a game of What If’s can go on forever, but since things are boring around here, I thought I’d ask a question that I have always wondered about.

Remember, let’s take this from the stand point of not knowing what the future would have held.

Let’s assume that OOTC would have been a hit commercially, so we know that the critics loved it, buts let’s say OOTC actually would have charted in the Top 10 and sold let’s say, for the time, 500,000 copies (Gold). But let’s just say It was a hit and also lets assume LB was nominated for a Grammy in a MAJOR category. So, we are saying, that it sold (which it didn’t) was a hit commercially (which it wasn’t) and was nominated for a major Grammy (which it wasn’t), if ALL that would have happened, and from listening to it, it certainly deserved all that, what would have happened to FM ? would there have been a FM AFTER 1992 ?

Personally, I think LB poured so much into OOTC, and I honestly thought WB promoting was good, that if OOTC would have actually made him a break out solo star, I actually think FM wouldn’t have existed after this, meaning I don’t think we would have had The Dance in 1997 and I honestly doubt 2003 SYS wouldn’t have happened. I may not like SN much and don’t like her SOLO efforts, but I will say this, she has always been loyal to FM, even when there are times when she could have probably said good bye to FM with 1 finger in the air, and yet she never did, and I have always respected her for that. LB on the other hand, as much I love the man, there has always been this feeling, for me any way, that if OOTC would have hit big in 1992, that it would have made LB 100 % not want anything else to do with FM, it would have sparked his confidence in his solo work, fueled his ego (for sure) and I don’t think he ever gets back to FM

Basically, I think because OOTC was a flop (even though it’s a wonderful album) , that LB pretty much had no choice but to return to FM , however I have always wondered “what if” the scenario was reverse, and OOTC made it big, I always wondered what that would have meant for FM

Thoughts?

David

[TrueFaith77]

I think Nirvana--with noted Mac fan Kurt--would have invited Lindsey to tour and record with them (as would eventually happen with Pearl Jam and Neil Young).

Consequently, Kurt Cobain either would have killed himself sooner or later than originally ocurred.

And Lindsey would be afforded a level of respect and mystique in the mainstream media that the four versions of Gift of Screws (The Dance, Say You Will, Under the Skin, and Gift of Screws) just did not manifest.

[BaronVonBielski]

Originally Posted by David A

I may not like SN much and don’t like her SOLO efforts, but I will say this, she has always been loyal to FM, even when there are times when she could have probably said good bye to FM with 1 finger in the air, and yet she never did, and I have always respected her for that.

Part of that comes from the fact that being in FM made her a star. LB had a huge part in that as well. She should be loyal. She has a career because of them.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by BaronVonBielski

Part of that comes from the fact that being in FM made her a star. LB had a huge part in that as well. She should be loyal. She has a career because of them.

Yep. And therein lies that guilt she always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac.

Anyways... I personally think LB still would have been back. I think that whatever type of therapy or treatment or whatever he went through still would have put that desire in him to make amends with everything and come full circle etc etc. I think he still would have had Mick playing on his record, they still would have called Christine for some back-up vocals, he still would have played on Twister (has he ever NOT helped Stevie when she asked him? Serious question... ). I actually think that his success with OOTC might have even made him want to come back MORE, because it would be acknowledged that they needed him, for once. That would give him even more control over the whole situation, and given him a huge superiority complex... it would be his own personal success bringing The Mac back, bringing Stevie back, etc. Even though WE know The Dance would have been huge regardless, in this alternate universe, it would appear that Lindsey and his current status in music/pop culture was a major factor in the attention they recieved, and therefore, he'd get all the credit.

[holidayroad]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

Anyways... I personally think LB still would have been back. I think that whatever type of therapy or treatment or whatever he went through still would have put that desire in him to make amends with everything and come full circle etc etc. I think he still would have had Mick playing on his record, they still would have called Christine for some back-up vocals, he still would have played on Twister (has he ever NOT helped Stevie when she asked him? Serious question... ). I actually think that his success with OOTC might have even made him want to come back MORE, because it would be acknowledged that they needed him, for once. That would give him even more control over the whole situation, and given him a huge superiority complex... it would be his own personal success bringing The Mac back, bringing Stevie back, etc. Even though WE know The Dance would have been huge regardless, in this alternate universe, it would appear that Lindsey and his current status in music/pop culture was a major factor in the attention they recieved, and therefore, he'd get all the credit.

I agree with this. Still, I've always wondered if he regretted going back to Fleetwood Mac.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by holidayroad

I agree with this. Still, I've always wondered if he regretted going back to Fleetwood Mac.

I don't know, I don't think going back to Fleetwood Mac has been anything but good for Lindsey, really. Of course, no one knows emotionally/mentally what kind of toll it really takes. But he APPEARS to enjoy being on stage with them, and obviously, it enables him to do more with his solo career in the long run.

Stevie clearly thinks he regrets joining in the first place, though. So who's to say.

[nodmod]

Interesting topic, I have wondered many times what was Lindsey doing in the time from 93 when the OOTC tour wrapped till The Dance reunion in 97?

There is some speculation that another aborted solo album 'Smile' was submitted to WB and rejected, this then turned into the GOS sessions and then the reunion. I have tried to piece together this timeline from what we appear to know on this page on my site http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/still...90s-album.html

However this could all be speculation, but I would really be interested to hear the views from the posters here.

Stories persist that Smile was recorded with the OOTC touring band and co-produced with Richard Dashut, maybe only the band, Richard or Lindsey only really know.......

[chiliD]

Actually, I think if OotC HAD become a hit & Lindsey garnered the solo fame he so seemingly desperately craves, I think Fleetwood Mac would've been just fine without him. They carried on without him for 10 years (and existed just fine for 8 years prior to his arrival) and probably would've STILL kept going. The thing that Mick mistakenly kept trying to do was re-create the Rumours mystique...thinking that if he got "the five" back together that they'd become mega-superstars once again. But, it DIDN'T work the 10 years between Rumours & Tango In The Night while still HAVING those people, so why he would think it would happen again in '97 is beyond my scope of vision. Sure, The Dance was probably a nice "closure" for most of them involved, but as a fan (and an avid one, at that), I thought it was a massive mistake. They took a giant leap backwards in that one step than had creatively stifled them previously. By '97 they were a nostalgia act plain & simple. Had they kept going with either the crew that WERE Fleetwood Mac at the time, or even with even newer people, the creative spark of always doing something new woudl've lived. By reuniting the Rumours lineup, it just put a massive Berlin Wall type barrier to any further creativity because they'd forever be known as a band that looked BACK instead of looking FORWARD. (same thing happened to the Beach Boys in the early '70s...they could've kept the creative spark going & keep releasing new challenging music or cave to playing "the hits"...they did the latter...just as Fleetwood Mac did in '97 and has continued for the 15 subsequent years. WHY? Because they spend twice as much time apart as they do together so each time they DO get together, it is considered "a reunion" rather than them "feeling a creative spark" TO get together. Their "togetherness" since '97 is nothing but a money-grab...creativity jumped ship as soon as Mick & John sent Billy & Bekka packing...sure, they may not have had record-selling success, but they were still treading new ground musically. NOT something Fleetwood Mac has done since '97.

And, again, I think that both Stevie & Lindsey over-stayed their welcome once the Tusk tour ended. The two of them should've gone back to either being a duo or separate solo acts and let Fleetwood Mac carry one with people who really WANTED to be a part of that band. I'll give them the break to then come back to do Mirage, as a testing ground, but when that resulted in a total bland album, that should've REALLY been the final straw for the Buckingham & Nicks era of Fleetwood Mac.

[David A]

NICE STUFF

i respect your take, however I dont get how they could have survived w/out him or them., I mean, The Dance, a back ward step? you mean 5 million steps back, LOL

The Dance was massively succesful, and I dont understand how that is a bad thing for them, I mean, more ppl know of FM now cause of the dance, and to suggest they kept going on w.out them would have meant what playing local Starbucks or COffee Houses maybe? lol

to each their own

[jbrownsjr]

Well, I think Chili means creatively speaking. The Dance was successful because of nostalgia, not creative and/or groundbreaking music.

This point goes even further when they recorded SYW which in my opinion is just awful. I do however disagree that Mirage wasn't creative, but I'm in the minority on this one. I thought it sounded nothing like Rumours. I felt like it was a McVie/Buckingham "Law and Order" with Gypsy etc.

I also thought Tango in the Night was a very unique album. I always wondered had they toured it with LB, if the tunes would have flourished a little better than the Shakin the Cage Tour.

I loved BTM but again, I agree with Chili in the sense that Stevie's songs were the worst, perhaps her problems were really affecting her at this time.

To the main question, I believe if LB had not needed FM after OOTC he would not have re-joined them. He just about admits through this tired "big machine/small machine theory that he needs FM for some scratch.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

I don't know, I don't think going back to Fleetwood Mac has been anything but good for Lindsey, really. Of course, no one knows emotionally/mentally what kind of toll it really takes. But he APPEARS to enjoy being on stage with them, and obviously, it enables him to do more with his solo career in the long run.

Stevie clearly thinks he regrets joining in the first place, though. So who's to say.

That's the thing. The emotional ties and the sort of mending of fences and uniting with FM again as a way of healing old wounds is why he did and does go back. It allows them to relive old glories and despite the drama, I think they all still enjoy it and each other at the end of the day.

I don't think all of that would have necessarily been different if OOTC had been a huge success. Lindsey was able to go back to FM because of how he perceived the others had changed. I think he would have still let Stevie twist his arm on the Clinton deal and she probably would have coerced him into doing The Dance too, if OOTC had succeeded. It may have been him helping them out by that point, instead of what they claimed was a way to boost his solo visibility, but he would have done it.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

That's the thing though. The emotional ties and the sort of mending of fences and uniting with FM again as a way of healing old wounds is why he did and does go back. It allows them to relive old glories and despite the drama, I think they all still enjoy it and each other at the end of the day.

I don't think all of that would have necessarily been different if OOTC had been a huge success. Lindsey was able to go back to FM because of how he perceived the others had changed. I think he would have still let Stevie twist his arm on the Clinton deal and she probably would have coerced him into doing The Dance too, if OOTC had succeeded. It may have been him helping them out by that point, instead of what they claimed was a way to boost his solo visibility, but he would have done it.

Yep, I 100% agree.