New producers for Stevie? Is she too difficult?

[sparky]

Until Mirage, Lindsey did a great job producing Stevie. The only great song he did on that record was Gypsy. That's Alright could have been produced by Helen Keller. The songs structure is simple, it was an old song, it was done. IMO any country artist could have made it a hit then and likely could now. Its great composition. From Stevie's most fertile songwriting period.

Past that, I don't think he did a song of hers justice. Other than Goodbye Baby, I think he did a terrible job on that record. Say You Will didn't even belong on a record. Let alone be a title track. Whatever veto power he had should have been swung down on that piece of MOR no hook junk. It was not up to snuff. And he trashed her other songs on SYW other than EFO which was very well done and stuck out like a sore thumb on that middling over wrought chunk of a record.

After Bella Donna Stevie's song selection and production started a swift decline. Jimmy was the last person with taste that she listened to. She was very powerful and I think her instincts were influenced by her ego, her drug use, and her irrational connection to songs that while they may have had significance to her, may not have been very good songs at all. See any song on Street Skank or OSOTM.

Thank god for Dave Stewart. Even TISL had junk on it. Everyday was a throwaway gimme to give a producer songwriting money. Love Changes ditto. I have no idea what the hell happened to Love Is. Live it is fantastic. The record version is a snore. I suspect it was a label scam to connect her Sarah, who was effectively done as a commercial force though no one knew it at the time. Either way the end result was a big bad clunk of a song that deserved better.

So is she difficult to produce? Not if she respects you and the label gets the hell out of the the way. And her judgment is in check. Otherwise? Look at history. She pumped out a lot of junk. We may love most of it, but post Wild Heart, there is a lot of junk. And Lindsey no longer helps. I don't want to hear anything he produces of her. Ever again. His SYW songs are a train wreck.

[mitzo]

Originally Posted by sparky

Until Mirage, Lindsey did a great job producing Stevie. The only great song he did on that record was Gypsy. That's Alright could have been produced by Helen Keller. The songs structure is simple, it was an old song, it was done. IMO any country artist could have made it a hit then and likely could now. Its great composition. From Stevie's most fertile songwriting period.

Past that, I don't think he did a song of hers justice. Other than Goodbye Baby, I think he did a terrible job on that record. Say You Will didn't even belong on a record. Let alone be a title track. Whatever veto power he had should have been swung down on that piece of MOR no hook junk. It was not up to snuff. And he trashed her other songs on SYW other than EFO which was very well done and stuck out like a sore thumb on that middling over wrought chunk of a record.

After Bella Donna Stevie's song selection and production started a swift decline. Jimmy was the last person with taste that she listened to. She was very powerful and I think her instincts were influenced by her ego, her drug use, and her irrational connection to songs that while they may have had significance to her, may not have been very good songs at all. See any song on Street Skank or OSOTM.

Thank god for Dave Stewart. Even TISL had junk on it. Everyday was a throwaway gimme to give a producer songwriting money. Love Changes ditto. I have no idea what the hell happened to Love Is. Live it is fantastic. The record version is a snore. I suspect it was a label scam to connect her Sarah, who was effectively done as a commercial force though no one knew it at the time. Either way the end result was a big bad clunk of a song that deserved better.

So is she difficult to produce? Not if she respects you and the label gets the hell out of the the way. And her judgment is in check. Otherwise? Look at history. She pumped out a lot of junk. We may love most of it, but post Wild Heart, there is a lot of junk. And Lindsey no longer helps. I don't want to hear anything he produces of her. Ever again. His SYW songs are a train wreck.

It neve ceases to amaze me how we seem to be listening to totally different Stevies. I thought Stevie on SYW was the best Stevie had heard since Tango and Rock a Little. On SYW all her tunes were jiggled and fiddled by Linds into interesting soundscapes with lots of delicious things to hear on every listen. He even made the best silk purses he could out of sow's ears like SYW and Silver Girl.

She was so dreary on TOSOTM and SA and TISL. Either trying too hard or just smothered under crappy half-hearted production. The only track on TISL I liked and clung to was in fact Love Is. Vastly prefer that to the bawling tedium of the live version.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by mitzo

He even made the best silk purses he could out of sow's ears like SYW and Silver Girl.

There was no saving Silver Girl. Someone should have SERIOUSLY vetoed that going on the album. We all know she has better stuff in the vaults than THAT snoozer of a song.

I agree, Lindsey didn't ruin Stevie's songs on SYW. I think he did a good job, she just included some clunkers that couldn't be saved. I'm not a big fan of her slow songs on the album and I think that Smile At You should have sounded more like the angry demo version, but for the most part, her stuff is pretty good on SYW.

One thing Lindsey should try to reign in is the tendency to make everything sound like it's from the 80's. Big, slick, loud productions. That's how Tango sounded and it seems like he hasn't strayed from that approach much with modern day FM.

[mikephxaz]

Originally Posted by sparky

Until Mirage, Lindsey did a great job producing Stevie. The only great song he did on that record was Gypsy. That's Alright could have been produced by Helen Keller. The songs structure is simple, it was an old song, it was done. IMO any country artist could have made it a hit then and likely could now. Its great composition. From Stevie's most fertile songwriting period.

Past that, I don't think he did a song of hers justice. Other than Goodbye Baby, I think he did a terrible job on that record. Say You Will didn't even belong on a record. Let alone be a title track. Whatever veto power he had should have been swung down on that piece of MOR no hook junk. It was not up to snuff. And he trashed her other songs on SYW other than EFO which was very well done and stuck out like a sore thumb on that middling over wrought chunk of a record.

After Bella Donna Stevie's song selection and production started a swift decline. Jimmy was the last person with taste that she listened to. She was very powerful and I think her instincts were influenced by her ego, her drug use, and her irrational connection to songs that while they may have had significance to her, may not have been very good songs at all. See any song on Street Skank or OSOTM.


Thank god for Dave Stewart. Even TISL had junk on it. Everyday was a throwaway gimme to give a producer songwriting money. Love Changes ditto. I have no idea what the hell happened to Love Is. Live it is fantastic. The record version is a snore. I suspect it was a label scam to connect her Sarah, who was effectively done as a commercial force though no one knew it at the time. Either way the end result was a big bad clunk of a song that deserved better.

So is she difficult to produce? Not if she respects you and the label gets the hell out of the the way. And her judgment is in check. Otherwise? Look at history. She pumped out a lot of junk. We may love most of it, but post Wild Heart, there is a lot of junk. And Lindsey no
longer helps. I don't want to hear anything he produces of her. Ever again. His SYW songs are a train wreck.

Wow, Sparky those are fighting words...lol...that kind of honesty gets some of these people's panties in a wad. I agree with much of this. Make no mistake I am the first in line to buy ANYTHING that Stevie releases but if you question Stevie's choices or reasons for her choices the zealots come out. Your comment "so is she difficult to produce..not if she respects you.....".is an interesting one. I've always wondered if it's not her respect that is required but instead it's an intense admiration of her that is required to get the job. If a potential producer is excessively enamored with her I'm not sure they push her enough and they don't "tame" some of Stevie's excesses.
Lastly I have to disagree with your thoughts concerning stevies contributions on SYW. I love her material on this cd. While it's a "strange"collection of her songs for one cd... I love them!!!!

[Travisevian]

Originally Posted by PolishStevieFan

Heart's album "Desire Walks On" bombed...

Desire Walks On is my favourite Heart album and it's unfortunate that it wasn't more commercially successful.

[PolishStevieFan]

Originally Posted by Travisevian

Desire Walks On is my favourite Heart album and it's unfortunate that it wasn't more commercially successful.

I love this album as well and don't understand why it didn't set the charts on fire, especially considering that the first single-"Will You Be There In The Morning" was so powerful and catchy.

[mitzo]

Originally Posted by mikephxaz

Wow, Sparky those are fighting words...lol...that kind of honesty gets some of these people's panties in a wad. I agree with much of this. Make no mistake I am the first in line to buy ANYTHING that Stevie releases but if you question Stevie's choices or reasons for her choices the zealots come out. Your comment "so is she difficult to produce..not if she respects you.....".is an interesting one. I've always wondered if it's not her respect that is required but instead it's an intense admiration of her that is required to get the job. If a potential producer is excessively enamored with her I'm not sure they push her enough and they don't "tame" some of Stevie's excesses.
Lastly I have to disagree with your thoughts concerning stevies contributions on SYW. I love her material on this cd. While it's a "strange"collection of her songs for one cd... I love them!!!!

I have always thought of Stevie as a difficult character, self absorbed, vain, and craving of attention, so I agree she probably has rough experiences with some producers. She and Linds do not get along because he is a perfectionist and does not worship her.

Stevie's songs on SYW with Lindsey's production come across as a strange and fascinating box of treats, to my ears. I still do not tire of listening to them again and again, whereas TISL and IYD haven't been played in my house or car for quite a while. The only other album I can compare it to is Tusk.

[Jondalar]

Stevie seems to blame her producers a lot of times for her failures in the past. The truth is was albums failed because of weak material.

[mikephxaz]

Originally Posted by mitzo

I have always thought of Stevie as a difficult character, self absorbed, vain, and craving of attention, so I agree she probably has rough experiences with some producers. She and Linds do not get along because he is a perfectionist and does not worship her.

Stevie's songs on SYW with Lindsey's production come across as a strange and fascinating box of treats, to my ears. I still do not tire of listening to them again and again, whereas TISL and IYD haven't been played in my house or car for quite a while. The only other album I can compare it to is Tusk.

Mitzo...I LOVE LOVE the description of "a strange box of treats to my ears...I still don't tire of listening to them again and again.....the only other album I can compare it to is Tusk...". I could not have said it better. Where we disagree is that I include IYD in that same category...not TISL. I don't think it's a bad thing if Stevie is described as being "difficult". My fear is she has limited her success fo being indulgent.

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Stevie seems to blame her producers a lot of times for her failures in the past. The truth is was albums failed because of weak material.

I agree alittle on that.Produce it herself.Anyway she got to do something different to keep up with the Joneses .Record a country cd.Team up with Adele,Katy Perry or record a rap hip hop cd with Kanye West or somebody. I really blame the record label for not helping in the promotion dept.The old days they did everything to promote their artist.Today forget it.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Stevie seems to blame her producers a lot of times for her failures in the past. The truth is was albums failed because of weak material.

I'm speaking more about individual songs than I am albums as a whole, but honestly, I think everyone can agree that without a doubt Stevie is, at least to some extent, dependent on producers. Listen to any of her rough demos - bare, bare bones, the shell of a song, a chord progression and her voice. In that respect, I think some blame CAN be put on them (although, it wouldn't, if Stevie wasn't dependent on them in the first place - so that's ultimately where the problem lies). She has plenty of amazing demos, she has plenty of amazing songs, she's got some clunkers of demos, and she's got some clunkers of songs. They don't necessarily match up.

I'll use the tired example of Gypsy - the potential of a song fully explored to perfection. But Gypsy, like any one of her compositions, could have taken a lot of different directions. The piano demo of that song, while haunting, is not really anything special, in terms of what Stevie gave - lyrics and a melody. Gypsy could have turned into a country song or a hard rocker or a ballad or who knows what. Ultimately whoever it is who is working on the record has to be able to hear what the song should be AND what Stevie wants it to be.

The same could be said of any one of her songs. Smile At You is obviously a popular example from the other side of the spectrum - a good song gone wrong. Planets of the Universe is an example of a song changing form (and I'm sure people have varying opinions on which version of that song is the best).

The potential might not always be there in the song, but when it is, it IS up to the producer or the band or whomever it is that is working with Stevie to realize it. That might not be fair. But that's just how I see it, at least, it has to be that way because of the situation as we know it.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Stevie seems to blame her producers a lot of times for her failures in the past. The truth is was albums failed because of weak material.

Other than Glynn Johns, she has not had anything bad to say about any producers. How can you take one example and make it sound like she makes a habit of it? Stop.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by Travisevian

Desire Walks On is my favourite Heart album and it's unfortunate that it wasn't more commercially successful.

I love that album too: one of their best. It goes to show that, because of a variety of circumstances, quality music can be flushed down the toliet while ****ty music can float and linger.

Sadly that's usually the case. There are a lot of unsung musicians and bands (and albums) much more deserving of success than those who actually make it big. Success can be very unfair and elusive. Stevie and Lindsey were very lucky.

[Fannymac]

I've been saying for years that I would LOVE to see Rick Rubin produce Stevie! Second choice? Matt Serlatic (?)!

[Macfanforever]

I happen to watch the movie Nashville again.In the opening with Henry Gibson's character {Haven Hamilton} is in the recording studio recording the "200 Years " song.As I was watching it .I was thinking when Stevie and FM in the recording studio with everything going wrong.Just watch.A reporter sneeks in he had to stop recording and had her tossed out by his son.Getting annoyed with the overpowering backup singers .you can see it in his face.Having it out with the piano player {Played by Richard Baskin}and walked out of the studio.

I can see it can be a pain in the a$$ at times .Trying to get along with the people that work with you in the studio.It's like any job.