Ken Caillat Trashes Lindsey In His New Book

[Regina]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Really? I have yet to witness firsthand the act of people changing. They may behave differently, or they may have more insight into their behaviors, but the underlying pathology is still there; only the symptoms change.

I think it's one thing for one person to report an isolated incident. But there is a pattern here. CAH reports several incidents of physical violence. There was the guitar chucking incident in NZ in 1980. There was the infamous Stevie strangling incident in 1987. And now the Ken strangling incident has come to light. Yeesh, anger management much?! I think it's one thing if Lindsey atoned for his transgressions... but as far as we are aware, he has never addressed these episodes. I mean, Buddah knows I have a temper. But I have never sought to strangle someone. That goes way beyond merely trying to inflict physical pain upon someone; that is literally murderous. Thank goodness for Lindsey's slight stature; he could be in the hoosegow serving a life sentence if he actually managed to follow through on his intentions.

I don't disagree with you. BUT, I guess I'm questioning Ken's veracity. Seriously, how many people would pick up his book without his connections to others. And, there is a strong FM contingent that would pick up a book for ANY FM-connection whatsoever. But, you know, if he says something about how f-ed up, yet wonderful they all were during Rumours...ho-hum. If he drops the strangulation angle--all of a sudden, there is (a small, IMO) controversy. Maybe someone will actually ask him about this in the mainstream press and help him sell 5 more books. And, yes, it could be true. But, this is a guy who Lindsey allegedly tried to strangle. So, what happened? Did he beat the crap out of Lindsey? Did he press charges (No)? Lack of detail makes me question this because it's easy to say Lindsey did this when his other transgressions are on record.
And, yeah, it doesn't really matter that there were 2 or 3 or 90 episodes like this. He needed anger management help and, hopefully, got it somewhere down the line. His not publicly addressing it doesn't bother me. It's opening up a can of worms that he doesn't have to.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nico

Man. Lindsey's not faring to well with all these 'strangling' stories. This will be, like, the third.

Ugh.

Yes, could be a pattern of him strangling people or a pattern of people who know of each other's allegations then saying something similar happened to them.

At any rate, I'd like to read his description of that incident, which I assume will provide more detail than the flashback reference to it does.

I will say that the various pictures of Lindsey holding people around the neck seem strange to me. He likes to feel their neck in the crook of his elbow. I don't particularly think he's a strangler, but I think the chokehold hug is rather odd and it seems to be a favorite of his. He'd often do the same thing to John in concert. Although, since John was playing at the time, maybe he hugged him that way because John's arms were full.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Regina

I don't disagree with you. BUT, I guess I'm questioning Ken's veracity.

If you don't have the advantage of superior strength, I'm not even sure how you get to the point of strangling a guy, unless you grab them from behind. I mean, you accidentally destroy all the acetates for GYOW and Lindsey finds out and it's not going to be pretty. As he comes stomping over in approach, what are you doing to counter? Strangling is not like a punch that comes out of nowhere.

It's like Herbert saying that when they did the White album, when John came towards Lindsey, Lindsey was automatically wary, until he realized that John only wanted to hug him. With Lindsey on his guard, I don't think John could have strangled him. But I trust the book will explain more than the glancing excerpt did.

Michele

[Silver Springs]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Really? I have yet to witness firsthand the act of people changing. They may behave differently, or they may have more insight into their behaviors, but the underlying pathology is still there; only the symptoms change.

I think it's one thing for one person to report an isolated incident. But there is a pattern here. CAH reports several incidents of physical violence. There was the guitar chucking incident in NZ in 1980. There was the infamous Stevie strangling incident in 1987. And now the Ken strangling incident has come to light. Yeesh, anger management much?! I think it's one thing if Lindsey atoned for his transgressions... but as far as we are aware, he has never addressed these episodes. I mean, Buddah knows I have a temper. But I have never sought to strangle someone. That goes way beyond merely trying to inflict physical pain upon someone; that is literally murderous. Thank goodness for Lindsey's slight stature; he could be in the hoosegow serving a life sentence if he actually managed to follow through on his intentions.

Just because you have failed to witness somebody changing, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The fact is that we don't know what happened because we weren't there. We've only read entirely one sided accounts. Even if they were all true (Though I have to say alot of CAH's books is highly suspect and contains far too much detail for it to sit comfortable as infallible fact for me), they were all early on in his career. We can't make any suppositions about him going to anger management or not, either. We can just surmise that he did because we haven't read any recent accounts. I'm tempted to say that he has had extensive help because, quite frankly, the way he puts himself across suggests ALOT of consultation with mental health professionals. Most of the time he speaks like a frickin' textbook. Personally, this being complete conjecture on my behalf because I don't know, but I believe he has sought help. The fact is, during alot of his career he was a very troubled man. But he appears in public to have tackled the issues that were wearying him. When we see him with his children, do we see them doing any less than loving him and existing in a happy family? Children are highly perceptive. If there were any residual issues with him, we'd see it in how the children react to him.

[holidayroad]

Who knows how much truth there is to any of these 'strangling/choking' incidents.

You have Mick saying in his book that Lindsey attacked Stevie. You have Stevie in more than one place saying that she is the one who attacked Lindsey. Stevie's own words (from Lindsey's Behind the Music)
"I think I got up and ran across the room and tried to kill him. I think I ran and attacked him."

Just the fact that there are different accounts of that incident leaves me to doubt the others.

[michelej1]

Ray, Richard, did you leave because Lindsey strangled you? Likes necks and fragile shoulders.

Michele

[Silver Springs]

Originally Posted by holidayroad

Who knows how much truth there is to any of these 'strangling/choking' incidents.

You have Mick saying in his book that Lindsey attacked Stevie. You have Stevie in more than one place saying that she is the one who attacked Lindsey. Stevie's own words (from Lindsey's Behind the Music)
"I think I got up and ran across the room and tried to kill him. I think I ran and attacked him."

Just the fact that there are different accounts of that incident leaves me to doubt the others.

This is why I take most of what I hear of the Fleetwood Mac history with a heavy pinch of salt.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by Silver Springs

Just because you have failed to witness somebody changing, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The fact is that we don't know what happened because we weren't there. We've only read entirely one sided accounts. Even if they were all true (Though I have to say alot of CAH's books is highly suspect and contains far too much detail for it to sit comfortable as infallible fact for me), they were all early on in his career. We can't make any suppositions about him going to anger management or not, either. We can just surmise that he did because we haven't read any recent accounts. I'm tempted to say that he has had extensive help because, quite frankly, the way he puts himself across suggests ALOT of consultation with mental health professionals. Most of the time he speaks like a frickin' textbook. Personally, this being complete conjecture on my behalf because I don't know, but I believe he has sought help. The fact is, during alot of his career he was a very troubled man. But he appears in public to have tackled the issues that were wearying him. When we see him with his children, do we see them doing any less than loving him and existing in a happy family? Children are highly perceptive. If there were any residual issues with him, we'd see it in how the children react to him.

Oh, I think it goes without saying that Lindsey has plenty of eccentricities and has likely sought/received treatment to address them. But, as you said, we don't really know the degree to which Lindsey has evolved into a more, um... humane individual. We can only draw our own conclusions based upon anecdotes, recollections and impressionistic fragments of memories that may or may not have been blurred by the haze of drug/alcohol use. But you can't deny, in the totality of accounts received thus far, that a trend seems to be apparent. This is further underscored by Stevie's accounts of the (verbal, I assume) fights that occurred even as recently as the Say You Will album and tour. And even though it was clearly said in jest, Lindsey calling Stevie the "B" word at the 92nd Street Y last year was telling, if not a wee bit disturbing. I would like to think that Lindsey and Stevie, even at their rockiest, would have fought in a civilized, adult-like manner. But in that innocuous instant, it was made clear to me that Lindsey was capable of going there- to the darkest, most demeaning places. I'm sure age, therapy and family life have mellowed him tremendously, but that glimmer of darkness is still there. I still would not want to cross his path.

[michelej1]

What would really be funny if the excerpt contains the only description of the strangling. In that passage, he's talking about a happy Lindsey hugging him and comments that it was better than being strangled. You know he just mentioned it as a little tease, a tantalizing tidbit. If it is not a reference to something he explained earlier in the book, then you can really tell how disingenuous it is. No effort to inform, just to titillate.

But my first reaction is still to laugh at: Gee I'd really love to use Lindsey on the albums I'm working on today, but he's too difficult and unhappy. Lindsey's no session player. His chronic depression is not why Ken isn't using him as a guitarist. Heck, I don't even consider him a guitarist for Fleetwood Mac, much less for Ken Caillat. Michele

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Really? I have yet to witness firsthand the act of people changing. They may behave differently, or they may have more insight into their behaviors, but the underlying pathology is still there; only the symptoms change.

You can suppress, but not expunge...

[McTrouble]

A leopard never really changes it's spots!

So, Lindsey, feel free to come at my neck baby - but a gentle nibble will do nicely!

[Travisevian]

Originally Posted by Lori40

I just read an excerpt from Ken Caillat's new book on his web site, makingrumours.com. In one little blurb, about recording GYOW, Ken wrote, "I would really love to use Lindsey as a guitarist on the albums I'm working on today, but he's just a difficult, unhappy person so much of the time that it's too much work to deal with him. Lindsey and I never discussed his trying to strangle me back in Miami, even though I often thought about it when he walked into the studio, especially in the days and weeks after it happened."

How is this "trashing" him?

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

This is further underscored by Stevie's accounts of the (verbal, I assume) fights that occurred even as recently as the Say You Will album and tour. And even though it was clearly said in jest, Lindsey calling Stevie the "B" word at the 92nd Street Y last year was telling, if not a wee bit disturbing.

Pardon?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Thank goodness for Lindsey's slight stature; he could be in the hoosegow serving a life sentence if he actually managed to follow through on his intentions.

When asked what he'd be doing if he hadn't gone into music, didn't Lindsey once answer that he'd probably be in prison?

Maybe there was more truth to that "joke" than we would've thought! Lol.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I love this board!

Right!!??!!!

[jbrownsjr]

He's clearly paid for his infractions!!