LB's political, music business and career-related songs - discuss

[elle]

what do you think? would all these songs fall into category of political, social commentary, and career-related songs? which would for certain, and which are about something completely different?

political and music-business-critique songs:
One Take
Murrow Turning Over In His Grave
Peacekeeper
What's The World Coming To
Wrong
That's How We Do It In L.A.
Time Bomb Town
Red Rover - what's this one about --> definitely social commentary

LB's personal career-related but also music-business related songs:
Bel Air Rain
Underground
Not Too Late
Cast Away Dreams
Rock Away Blind - ?

additionally, could these songs be somewhat political:
Eyes Of The World - what's this one about??
Treason - this song can have two separate meanings but can also count as political ??


also, looking at the complete song list, songs like Johnny Stew or Bwana jumped at me... maybe we can have a list of songs about people in his life - men or women, love interests or friends - that are not necessarily love songs (e.g. Miranda is a song about AH, but is not a love song)?

[michelej1]

I feel that Time Bomb Town is making some kind of social commentary. His isolation seems to be caused by the way the "town" (be it Hollywood, the music industry or Hill Valley when Marty travels to a time that is not his own). I mean, it just sounds like the world is conspiring to bring you down.


I got a bad complication
I keep it to myself
I got some strange information
I can't think of nothin' else
These must be about a million
Single ways to go down
'Cause I'm a lonely stranger
In this time bomb town
I got some strange information
I keep it to myself
I got a bad reputation
I can't think of nothin' else
There must be about a million
Single ways to go down
Oh I'm a lonely stranger
In a time bomb town
Oh there must be about a million
Single ways to go down
Oh I'm a lonely traveler
In this time bomb town
Oh there must be a million people
They're all trying to make it down
'Cause they're just lonely travelers
In this time bomb town
Time bomb town

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I feel that Time Bomb Town is making some kind of social commentary. His isolation seems to be caused by the way the "town" (be it Hollywood, the music industry or Hill Valley when Marty travels to a time that is not his own). I mean, it just sounds like the world is conspiring to bring you down.


I got a bad complication
I keep it to myself
I got some strange information
I can't think of nothin' else
These must be about a million
Single ways to go down
'Cause I'm a lonely stranger
In this time bomb town
I got some strange information
I keep it to myself
I got a bad reputation
I can't think of nothin' else
There must be about a million
Single ways to go down
Oh I'm a lonely stranger
In a time bomb town
Oh there must be about a million
Single ways to go down
Oh I'm a lonely traveler
In this time bomb town
Oh there must be a million people
They're all trying to make it down
'Cause they're just lonely travelers
In this time bomb town
Time bomb town

yes, when you put it that way definitely! i read through the lyrics and don't know why i ended up leaving it off the list...

what do you think of those other songs above that have question marks?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

what do you think of those other songs above that have question marks?

I think CAD is more personal than business or career related. If not personal growth, then personal loss.

I don't know what Red Rover is about. My view of it is colored by misunderstanding the lyrics at first. I thought "could see" was "christine" and I got it in my head that it was about her growing misery on the Dance tour. Obviously, knowing the words, I don't necessarily think that any more.

But during first listens when he said the lips you were kissing were all bathed in blue, all in white I thought it meant that her marriage was over and the only lips she had were the audience members' a sea of strangers, a distance away from them. Their lips were bathed in blue and white because they were flooded by the stage lights and that's the way they looked to the performers looking down at them.

I don't interpret the song that way any more, but I can't say I have found another interpretation for it either.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think CAD is more personal than business or career related. If not personal growth, then personal loss.

from what i could understand by seeing interpretations on various boards, everybody but me seems to think that CAD is about lindsey deciding to not have any love designs on stevie anymore, some time in 2004. that's 4 years after he got married, and had 2 kids. he finally decides it's time to be faithful to his wife, i believe that interpretation goes?

i think of it differently. to me CAD is about his career. his stopping having dreams of solo commercial success (watch not too late doc too for that) and deciding to just start putting out his music as he makes it, without worrying about it becoming hugely popular. because with OOTC definitely, he thought he might have as big of a solo success as he had with mac. that didn't happen. then he put together stellar solo album - original GOS. which got mostly folded in SYW... at which point mac had pretty good record-selling success for the times and being ageing band. and they had great commercial success on the road... as some of the other huge bands of the past started having.

at that point, some time during SYW tour, as he was writing new solo songs, did he still hope to also have solo success which would not be just critical, limited and esoteric and so was he thinking of holding back his next solo album and trying to figure out whether he can still achieve that? or letting that go and just putting out music and albums as he was writing new stuff without much worry about huge promotion and advertising?

if this is just personal reflection or loss song, why the repeated use of the word visionary?? word that seems to be reserved for his songs talking about disappointment that his solo music and achievements in general were not being as widely known and heard as he might have liked?

there are definitely personal lyrics in the song - because it is a personal disappointment and moving on song. for somebody who is deeply invested and defines themselves by their career, of course their career is not just a job - it is deeply personal.

and then there's moving on - to a new life of just putting out the new solo music and touring it - "i asked the band to leave me alone for 3 years"; "i wanted to put out 2 solo albums in short succession and tour behind both of them"... and he did!! something he hasn't done for 14 years before that. "mourning the loss of what could have been " and "dancing joyously on remains" that he's leaving there and moving on towards something different.


Holy light visionary sight there's been a
change in plans
Going away no I cannot stay I hope
you'll understand
I won't be home tonight I'll just slip out
of sight
Lay down my visionary eyes dancing on
my cast away dreams
Keep yourself out of sight farewell to the
wishes that died
Look for me in the morning light dancing
on my cast away dreams

Magic one all our dreams are done I
have no faith today
Sun will rise in your newborn eyes just
let me slip away
I won't be home tonight I'll just slip out
of sight
Lay down my visionary eyes dancing on
my cast away dreams

Keep yourself out of sight farewell to the
wishes that died
Look for me in the morning light dancing
on my cast away dreams

It would do no good to drown in the sea
Where no one remembers their name
and nothing but nothing is free

Hearts will break with choices we must
make so sleep and dream of me
I won't be home tonight I'll just slip out
of sight
Lay down my visionary eyes dancing on
my cast away dreams
Keep yourself out of sight farewell to the
wishes that died
Look for me in the morning light dancing
on my cast away dreams
Look for me in the morning light dancing
on my cast away dreams


soooo.... do you all think this interpretation is crazy? why? what am i missing?

[bangdrum]

I'd add Rock Away Blind.

Treason, if I remember correctly from 2008 intros, is "the treason we commit against ourselves through denial" or something similar. I think it's much more personal than political.

That's How We Do It In L.A. is definitely music biz related.

Songs about other people: Bwana
Johnny Stew
Mary Lee Jones
Miranda
When She Comes Down
Murrow

[bangdrum]

Wasn't there something about how CAD was inspired by a fight with his wife?

I always figured it was him being torn between wife/kids/family and either touring or hiding in the studio being a "visionary."

[Lori40]

When Lindsey introduced Red Rover in concerts, he said something about picturing "the gods" deciding to put an end to everything. I took that to mean "rock gods", and it was his way of saying that he was considering leaving Fleetwood Mac, and possibly the whole music business, for good. When he is on stage and looking out at the audience, they look like they are lined up, shoulder to shoulder, like players in a game of Red Rover. Essentially, I interpret the song as Lindsey saying that the audience comes to watch him put on a show, but they really aren't his friends, they don't really care about him. He may even be saying the same thing about his bandmates.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bangdrum

I'd add Rock Away Blind.

Treason, if I remember correctly from 2008 intros, is "the treason we commit against ourselves through denial" or something similar. I think it's much more personal than political.

That's How We Do It In L.A. is definitely music biz related.

Songs about other people: Bwana
Johnny Stew
Mary Lee Jones
Miranda
When She Comes Down
Murrow

Down On Rodeo too? definitely about Heche.

i was unsure about Rock Away Blind. where do you think it would fit - career related? as i'm writing this i'm thinking - duh - rock away? of course career related

what he said about Treason when introducing it during 2008 tour was "something that can be as large as nations and as small as 2 people" - there were also some speculations that Treason was his thinly veiled message to George Bush.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Lori40

When Lindsey introduced Red Rover in concerts, he said something about picturing "the gods" deciding to put an end to everything. I took that to mean "rock gods", and it was his way of saying that he was considering leaving Fleetwood Mac, and possibly the whole music business, for good. When he is on stage and looking out at the audience, they look like they are lined up, shoulder to shoulder, like players in a game of Red Rover. Essentially, I interpret the song as Lindsey saying that the audience comes to watch him put on a show, but they really aren't his friends, they don't really care about him. He may even be saying the same thing about his bandmates.

i like this! i don't necessarily think that would be his interpretation - he seems to be the type drawing huge amounts of energy from audience adulation, and not the type regarding audience as enemy... but i still think it's a very interesting twist in interpreting the song! and he was definitely talking about gods looking at the world they created and thinking "it isn't going very well... might be time to pull the plug on this human race!" - so yeah by his intro of the song and your interpretation, i'd say we definitely need to put Red Rover into social commentary category.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bangdrum

Wasn't there something about how CAD was inspired by a fight with his wife?

yes, he had a fight with his wife and she left for LA. he composed CAD the next day and called her and played CAD over the phone.

Originally Posted by bangdrum

I always figured it was him being torn between wife/kids/family and either touring or hiding in the studio being a "visionary."

ha, could be! never thought of that but a definite possibility. although he seem to always be really committed to his family life and kids in interviews - at least starting from 2006 (e.g., when you watch him talking to LBT in crossroads he did with them). maybe he was still more exclusively committed to career before 2004?

[Nico]

Originally Posted by elle

i think of it differently. to me CAD is about his career. his stopping having dreams of solo commercial success (watch not too late doc too for that) and deciding to just start putting out his music as he makes it, without worrying about it becoming hugely popular. because with OOTC definitely, he thought he might have as big of a solo success as he had with mac. that didn't happen. then he put together stellar solo album - original GOS. which got mostly folded in SYW... at which point mac had pretty good record-selling success for the times and being ageing band. and they had great commercial success on the road... as some of the other huge bands of the past started having.

at that point, some time during SYW tour, as he was writing new solo songs, did he still hope to also have solo success which would not be just critical, limited and esoteric and so was he thinking of holding back his next solo album and trying to figure out whether he can still achieve that? or letting that go and just putting out music and albums as he was writing new stuff without much worry about huge promotion and advertising?

if this is just personal reflection or loss song, why the repeated use of the word visionary?? word that seems to be reserved for his songs talking about disappointment that his solo music and achievements in general were not being as widely known and heard as he might have liked?

there are definitely personal lyrics in the song - because it is a personal disappointment and moving on song. for somebody who is deeply invested and defines themselves by their career, of course their career is not just a job - it is deeply personal.

and then there's moving on - to a new life of just putting out the new solo music and touring it - "i asked the band to leave me alone for 3 years"; "i wanted to put out 2 solo albums in short succession and tour behind both of them"... and he did!! something he hasn't done for 14 years before that. "mourning the loss of what could have been " and "dancing joyously on remains" that he's leaving there and moving on towards something different.


Holy light visionary sight there's been a
change in plans
Going away no I cannot stay I hope
you'll understand
I won't be home tonight I'll just slip out
of sight
Lay down my visionary eyes dancing on
my cast away dreams
Keep yourself out of sight farewell to the
wishes that died
Look for me in the morning light dancing
on my cast away dreams

Magic one all our dreams are done I
have no faith today
Sun will rise in your newborn eyes just
let me slip away
I won't be home tonight I'll just slip out
of sight
Lay down my visionary eyes dancing on
my cast away dreams

Keep yourself out of sight farewell to the
wishes that died
Look for me in the morning light dancing
on my cast away dreams

It would do no good to drown in the sea
Where no one remembers their name
and nothing but nothing is free

Hearts will break with choices we must
make so sleep and dream of me
I won't be home tonight I'll just slip out
of sight
Lay down my visionary eyes dancing on
my cast away dreams
Keep yourself out of sight farewell to the
wishes that died
Look for me in the morning light dancing
on my cast away dreams
Look for me in the morning light dancing
on my cast away dreams


soooo.... do you all think this interpretation is crazy? why? what am i missing?

That's a very interesting interpretation and it makes a great deal of sense to me. Especially when I think back to the doc that was made around this album. Lindsey was going through a pretty interesting professional/emotional transition in this period and I can sense that this song is about that. I think this song could have dual meanings, but elle's analysis is very clearly where LB was at that point in time.

The album was more raw and subtle and touched many different themes- some extremely personal. One of them, of course, was the realization that his dreams of touching all audiences and being a superstar in his solo career was...just a dream. And Lindsey sort of felt is talents were underestimated and overlooked by the general listening public, and perhaps he had "failed" in a sense as an artist. But then he realized that his particular style of writing and performing wasn't meant to tackle the masses, but it was destined to be for the smaller crowds. And I guess this was Lindsey accepting that and sort of letting go of some of his ambition's target.

I can also see it in a romantic sense as well, but the album to me was very much along the lines of this theme elle interpreted. I pretty much agree.

[michelej1]

When I first saw the tracklist for UTS, I was taken by CAD as a title, before I'd heard the song.

Susan Dickinson has a poem with that phrase in it and, given Gift of Screws, I wondered if Lindsey had been familiar with other Dickinson family poems. Of course, I remember discussing the difference between the term "castaway" and the phrase "cast away" with David here. But I think Lindsey would take both meanings, as he does in his speech for Big Love, "looking out for love," searching for it, defending against it.

I see a castaway's dreams as not being much different from dreams that have been -- or have had to be -- cast away, in the end.

While I think his musical aspirations are part of CAD, I think it's in the sense that they have prevented him from pursuing personal relationships. And I think that theme comes up throughout the album. For me, it's most beautifully done in Show You How.

"When the play is unoriginal and the cast scrapes and bows and the only way you can seize the day is to blend into the crowd" seems to be both about assimilation by taking the most commercial route musically, but also about not letting go and not allowing his frustration over what that has cost him professionally limit him personally.

Hyssop -
Lives blurred by grief and sin.
Barred close from warmth & light.
Visions of beauty win.
Through fancy's magic night.

Spent souls at close of fray.
Shorn of all gifts but pain.
Shrink from the narrow way.
And gaze at day again.

In thews of grinding ice
Fast in its death cold seams.
Of warmth and sunny skies.
The Arctic Cast away dreams -

No Instants flash and gleam
No brief reprieve from pain.
Or lapse in stony dream -
For those whom love hath slain .

[elle]

Originally Posted by Nico

But then he realized that his particular style of writing and performing wasn't meant to tackle the masses, but it was destined to be for the smaller crowds. And I guess this was Lindsey accepting that and sort of letting go of some of his ambition's target.

yes. making a decision that he can fulfill his need for creativity as an artist without striving for a commercial success, and that's completely fine and still very satisfying.

when did he start talking about his solo music as esoteric? i think he must have talked about Tusk and Go Insane albums as expressing the left side of his palette long before 2004-2006? but calling his solo albums esoteric - was that new addition to the vocabulary he was using to describe his music?

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Susan Dickinson has a poem with that phrase in it and, given Gift of Screws, I wondered if Lindsey had been familiar with other Dickinson family poems. Of course, I remember discussing the difference between the term "castaway" and the phrase "cast away" with David here. But I think Lindsey would take both meanings, as he does in his speech for Big Love, "looking out for love," searching for it, defending against it.

I see a castaway's dreams as not being much different from dreams that have been -- or have had to be -- cast away, in the end.

While I think his musical aspirations are part of CAD, I think it's in the sense that they have prevented him from pursuing personal relationships.

looking at the lyrics of the poem and comparing them to CAD, sounds like he was definitely familiar with it.

yeah, i can see definitely musical aspirations intertwining or interfering with relationships too, especially in the way bangdrum described.