What songs do you consider non-hits from Rumours?

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

A "hit" is a song that was released as a single and/or charted relatively high. I gave Top 20 originally as a basis, but I would even broaden that to Top 40.
I don't care how many times a song is played on the radio or is in a set list or is a fan favorite - the word "hit" means it sold copies as a single and charted. Also, whether or not a song is a "hit" is not an opinion. It's a fact.

I retract my last statement on this subject and completely agree with you. However, because Rumours is an album that most human beings have heard every track from and that radio has played a lot of the non hits on a regular basis, then I can understand why one would consider a song like say GDW or The Chain a 'hit' song.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

whether or not a song is a "hit" is not an opinion. It's a fact.

Maybe, but you have to have a solid definition of the word "hit" and even you weren't sure whether to define it as Top 20 or Top 40. Billboard charts are a handy tool, but even then the lines get blurry. Consider Heart's "Crazy On You".....a staple of rock radio stations even today. It's definitely one of their most famous songs, but it peaked at No. 35, so not a hit by some standards. Years later they made the Top 10 with "Nothing At All" which is a great song but hasn't really been played on the radio since the year it was released.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by vivfox

I retract my last statement on this subject and completely agree with you. However, because Rumours is an album that most human beings have heard every track from and that radio has played a lot of the non hits on a regular basis, then I can understand why one would consider a song like say GDW or The Chain a 'hit' song.

I also understand why fans would consider anything from Rumours a "hit". But, technically speaking those songs still weren't not "hits" by industry standards. I would refer to them as "fan favorites" or popular album cuts.

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

Maybe, but you have to have a solid definition of the word "hit" and even you weren't sure whether to define it as Top 20 or Top 40. Billboard charts are a handy tool, but even then the lines get blurry. Consider Heart's "Crazy On You".....a staple of rock radio stations even today. It's definitely one of their most famous songs, but it peaked at No. 35, so not a hit by some standards. Years later they made the Top 10 with "Nothing At All" which is a great song but hasn't really been played on the radio since the year it was released.

I agree, the lines can be blurry. All I am saying is there is a definition of the term "hit". The argument can be made for how high does a song chart before being labeled a hit. In your example, I have never heard or don't remember "Nothing At All" -- it didn't chart in the US and went to 38 in the UK.

In both of these cases (Rumours & Dreamboat Annie), the album being a hit drives the popularity of the songs, even if the songs are not released as singles in some cases. But, I still would argue that just because the album is a hit the songs cannot be considered hit songs unless they are released as singles and chart high -- some would say Top 20 or Top 40 and some may argue Top 100. I think Top 100 is too broad.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

In your example, I have never heard or don't remember "Nothing At All" -- it didn't chart in the US and went to 38 in the UK.

"Nothing At All" was a U.S. Top 10 hit in the spring of 1986....it was the follow-up to "These Dreams." The fact that you never heard/don't remember it sort of proves my point. Which is the bigger hit....."Crazy on You" (No. 35) or "Nothing At All" (No. 10)?

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

"Nothing At All" was a U.S. Top 10 hit in the spring of 1986....it was the follow-up to "These Dreams." The fact that you never heard/don't remember it sort of proves my point. Which is the bigger hit....."Crazy on You" (No. 35) or "Nothing At All" (No. 10)?

Where is your source? The one I read said it did not chart in the US.

Never said you didn't have a point. However, I wasn't listening to or keeping up with rock/pop charts closely in the '80's & '90's. But, an industry hit is an industry hit -- regardless of if a fan remembers it 25 years later.

For example here are three songs from 1977's Billboard top 10 that I do not remember either the song or the artist:

5. Angel In Your Arms » Hot
6. I Like Dreamin' » Kenny Nolan
7. Don't Leave Me This Way » Thelma Houston

These were obviously still big hits...

(Note: Angel in Your Arms was covered by other artists and I remember their versions. I have no memory of a group called Hot.)

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

For example here are three songs from 1977's Billboard top 10 that I do not remember either the song or the artist:
5. Angel In Your Arms » Hot
6. I Like Dreamin' » Kenny Nolan
7. Don't Leave Me This Way » Thelma Houston

I've never heard #5 but 6 & 7 yes. #7 still receives moderate airplay today.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Where is your source? The one I read said it did not chart in the US.

Never said you didn't have a point. However, I wasn't listening to or keeping up with rock/pop charts closely in the '80's & '90's. But, an industry hit is an industry hit -- regardless of if a fan remembers it 25 years later.

All Billboard reference books.....Top 10 charts, Top Pop Singles, plus I subscribed to the magazine back then.

And I wouldn't argue that "Nothing At All" wasn't a hit. It obviously was. I'm more interested in "Crazy On You." If we were trying to find the favorite non-hit by Heart, would it be included in the poll since it didn't even come close to the Top 20?

Also, hope you don't think I'm picking on you or trying to start something. I'm just debating (with myself as much as anyone else) because what sounded like it was going to be a very simple and fun poll has become kind of complicated.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

Maybe, but you have to have a solid definition of the word "hit" and even you weren't sure whether to define it as Top 20 or Top 40. Billboard charts are a handy tool, but even then the lines get blurry. Consider Heart's "Crazy On You".....a staple of rock radio stations even today. It's definitely one of their most famous songs, but it peaked at No. 35, so not a hit by some standards. Years later they made the Top 10 with "Nothing At All" which is a great song but hasn't really been played on the radio since the year it was released.

Very interesting info. I loved the song Nothing At All when it was played on the radio even tho I already had that album at that time. Crazy On You is a classic radio track, one of those songs I can hear endlessly and never get sick of but probably haven't heard Nothing At All in over a decade and don't GAF.

[bluefox4000]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

A "hit" is a song that was released as a single and/or charted relatively high. I gave Top 20 originally as a basis, but I would even broaden that to Top 40.

I don't care how many times a song is played on the radio or is in a set list or is a fan favorite - the word "hit" means it sold copies as a single and charted.

Here are the songs that did not chart/were not released:

Oh Daddy
Songbird
Second Hand News
Never Going Back Again
The Chain
Gold Dust Woman
I Don't Want to Know

Also, whether or not a song is a "hit" is not an opinion. It's a fact.

I quite agree

Mick

[michelej1]

I don't know how IDWTK could be considered a hit under any circumstances.

I don't think Oh Daddy is one either, but we focused fans have heard it a lot and I know why it's a hit to some of us.

But not I Don't Want to Know.

Michele

[MacShadowsBall]

I think part of what is coloring our judgement is the long term live performances. For example, nobody has yet to reply about Songbird. To me Landside is to Stevie as Songbird is to Christine. Yet Landslide was deemed a hit and Songbird seems to leaning towards 'non-hit'. However, with Christine and most of her songs retired, Songbird hasn't been played live since '98, plenty of time for it and others to get out of the 'hit' status.

Meanwhile, FM setlists since 2003 focus incredibly on the early Rumours stuff keeping those songs in our memories more and alot longer.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

I think part of what is coloring our judgement is the long term live performances. For example, nobody has yet to reply about Songbird. To me Landside is to Stevie as Songbird is to Christine. Yet Landslide was deemed a hit and Songbird seems to leaning towards 'non-hit'.

But Landslide is on the radio constantly (mostly The Dance version but sometimes the original) whereas Songbird never is.

We could make it easy and say that a song has to have been released as a single and made the charts to qualify as a hit, thereby eliminating songs like The Chain and GDW. Of course that still leaves the issue of how high it has to chart before it qualifies as a hit:

Don't Stop (No. 3)
Gypsy (No. 12)
Over My Head (No. 20)
Love In Store (No. 22)
Save Me (No. 33)
Sisters of the Moon (No. 86)

Where does anybody draw the line?

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

But Landslide is on the radio constantly (mostly The Dance version but sometimes the original) whereas Songbird never is.

We could make it easy and say that a song has to have been released as a single and made the charts to qualify as a hit, thereby eliminating songs like The Chain and GDW. Of course that still leaves the issue of how high it has to chart before it qualifies as a hit:

Don't Stop (No. 3)
Gypsy (No. 12)
Over My Head (No. 20)
Love In Store (No. 22)
Save Me (No. 33)
Sisters of the Moon (No. 86)

Where does anybody draw the line?

I would say in the top 20, although I consider Love in Store to be a hit. But I don't consider Save Me to be one. It's rather subjective.

Maybe in the top 30, or top 25? #86 is definitely not a hit.

[MacShadowsBall]

Also, I'm still having a problem in figuring out what songs should count as hits as far as the Pre-Rumours era goes. They didn't really have that many, as compared to the Rumours era.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

All Billboard reference books.....Top 10 charts, Top Pop Singles, plus I subscribed to the magazine back then.

And I wouldn't argue that "Nothing At All" wasn't a hit. It obviously was. I'm more interested in "Crazy On You." If we were trying to find the favorite non-hit by Heart, would it be included in the poll since it didn't even come close to the Top 20?

Also, hope you don't think I'm picking on you or trying to start something. I'm just debating (with myself as much as anyone else) because what sounded like it was going to be a very simple and fun poll has become kind of complicated.

No, not at all. I appreciate the discussion. It's a great question you bring up. I am not sure the source I used was correct for the Heart singles you mentioned. Of course, I would consider Crazy on You a hit in the Top 40...

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

But Landslide is on the radio constantly (mostly The Dance version but sometimes the original) whereas Songbird never is.

We could make it easy and say that a song has to have been released as a single and made the charts to qualify as a hit, thereby eliminating songs like The Chain and GDW. Of course that still leaves the issue of how high it has to chart before it qualifies as a hit:

Don't Stop (No. 3)
Gypsy (No. 12)
Over My Head (No. 20)
Love In Store (No. 22)
Save Me (No. 33)
Sisters of the Moon (No. 86)

Where does anybody draw the line?

This is why, in my opinion, Top 40 makes the most sense to qualify as a hit. In the states, it was the format radio used for weekly countdowns of the "hits in the nation". I personally would not consider a song to be a hit if it charted between 41-100.

I also suggest Billboard to be the sole recognized source. I think it's the oldest and most recognized chart.