Chicago Tribune Article: "Fleetwood Mac, Revisited"

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by dissention



What all of this makes me wonder is what is WTWCT REALLY about? I think it's just a bitter song about the "unjust" treatment Lindsey got from WB for an album he was never going to release anyway. It has nothing to do with greed or the state of the world; it's all about Lindsey's unfair treatment.

ITA - in fact, I said something similar last night to Tiffany. I think LB DOES care about the music more than the money THEORETICALLY, but he is also so out-of-touch with what it's like to not have so much money that when he thinks about greed, his only context it "Greedy people kept me from releasing my solo album." He doesn't apply it to the rest of us, or perhaps he'd be less blase about the difference between $40 and $140.

I ADORE LB, and had SUCH an awesome time last night, and considered my money well-spent... and he was interacting with the fans and signing autographs and being cool, so I wouldn't say he doesn't care about the fans. I will say, however, that it seems Lindsey does not think beyond himself when it comes to money matters - hence WTWCT. "What's the world coming to when I can't get my album out?" lol As for the people who don't make albums and have other money problems - those people are off of LB's radar.

[stephmoore]

Originally posted by trackaghost
I find it quite distressing really that some of you feel its justifiable for FM to rip us all with their ticket prices. .....
Plus Petty and Pearl Jam and the like seem to remember the days before they were rock stars, trying to afford tickets to see their favourite bands, something FM appear to have erased from their memories! (Check out Petty's song Money Becomes King.)

Can I get an AMEN?!!

I haven't posted to the Ledge in a while, because it seemed like I was alone in my bitterness about the outrageous ticket prices and the fraud being perpetrated on long-time fans via JT's "illustrious" fan club. So I'm heartened to read that someone else out there feels like I do.

And I'm sorry, but I was just infuriated at Tusk57's comment about "get out there, get yourself a skill and make yourself a pile of money." I work 60 hours a week, buddy. I have a college degree in technical communication. I *have* skills. But they involve helping people to learn, which this society doesn't value worth a tinker's damn.

It's pretty apparent that to "make a pile of money" in this screwed-up, disfunctional society, I'd have to:
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt NBA star, or
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt CEO, or
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt rock/rap/pop star.

I guess I'm just angry and disappointed to find out that people whom I thought were amazing and wonderful musicians are putting themselves squarely into category 3. Screw over the fans? No problem. Charge exorbitant ticket prices? Whatever it takes to guarantee me that $200,000 per show (or whatever it was).

It definitely brings to mind Marie's Antoinette's famous line about "Let them eat cake!" Marie lost her head, literally, over that one.....

If I ran into the band in the bar, I sure as hell wouldn't be buying them drinks. With the money they're raking in, they can buy their own damned alcohol. I'd more likely be getting myself thrown out of the bar because of what I'd say to them.

Hell hath no fury like a fan scorned (or at least, it shouldn't, if most fans weren't such sheep!)

Bitter? Who, me? Whatever makes you think that?

[John Run]

I make a enough money to afford these ticket prices. I guess I am an elitist....I really enjoyed the show...I guess I am an elitist....I have been to shows that cost less money and did not like them....I guess I am a snob.....I have been to shows that cost more money and did not like them....I guess I am not cultured enough to appreciate art.....

If I like it I pay for it....get over it people. They charge a price that the demand can justify. Ticket sales have proven they were accurate in assuming the demand was high enough to warrant such pricing. Ahhh...capitalism. I understand economics....I am an elitist...

[Sugar]

Being a movie star is pretty cool, but being a rock star is just better. Especially a lady rock star. I'm really grateful for it.

SN: So am I. Every day. And that's something I don't think goes away. It's like, I totally appreciate being able to buy, say, this thousand-dollar cashmere blanket. I do. Because if I couldn't, I would hate the fact that I would have to go back to real, regular blankets.

CL: At Penney's.

SN: At Penney's. [Laughing] And I never wanted to go to Penney's even when I was a little girl.

CL: I didn't want to go to Penney's, either. I knew, when I was in there, I knew I shouldn't be in there.

SN: I am not in the right store, Mom.

CL: There's something wrong. This is wrong.

SN: Take me to the good store.

This is the part of the interview that bugs me. I realize that this is not a popular opinion, (so I won't say as much as I could) but I think she sounds like such a spoiled brat!

IF Lindsey doesn't know about ticket prices, then it is because he chooses not to. Period. And if you don't have a problem with it because you love this band, then so be it. But let's not dress it up as "he's an artist" or "it's just the way it is" because there are examples (already stated) who CHOOSE not to do business this way.

[dissention]

Originally posted by stephmoore
Can I get an AMEN?!!

I haven't posted to the Ledge in a while, because it seemed like I was alone in my bitterness about the outrageous ticket prices and the fraud being perpetrated on long-time fans via JT's "illustrious" fan club. So I'm heartened to read that someone else out there feels like I do.

And I'm sorry, but I was just infuriated at Tusk57's comment about "get out there, get yourself a skill and make yourself a pile of money." I work 60 hours a week, buddy. I have a college degree in technical communication. I *have* skills. But they involve helping people to learn, which this society doesn't value worth a tinker's damn.

It's pretty apparent that to "make a pile of money" in this screwed-up, disfunctional society, I'd have to:
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt NBA star, or
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt CEO, or
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt rock/rap/pop star.

I guess I'm just angry and disappointed to find out that people whom I thought were amazing and wonderful musicians are putting themselves squarely into category 3. Screw over the fans? No problem. Charge exorbitant ticket prices? Whatever it takes to guarantee me that $200,000 per show (or whatever it was).

It definitely brings to mind Marie's Antoinette's famous line about "Let them eat cake!" Marie lost her head, literally, over that one.....

If I ran into the band in the bar, I sure as hell wouldn't be buying them drinks. With the money they're raking in, they can buy their own damned alcohol. I'd more likely be getting myself thrown out of the bar because of what I'd say to them.

Hell hath no fury like a fan scorned (or at least, it shouldn't, if most fans weren't such sheep!)

Bitter? Who, me? Whatever makes you think that?

CAN I GET AN AMEN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Everything you said, DITTO!

It's the people who actually work for a living that should be rolling in dough, not pampered celebrities. If I was a celebrity, lemme tell ya, I don't know how I'd be able to look at myself in the mirror knowing that I'm getting millions a year and a teacher or social worker is only getting paid $25 grand a year. I would feel awful and then use my money to benefit charities and disadvantaged people.

I'm not saying that FM doesn't do that, because honestly, I have no idea. But they should, dammit. Or else they ARE greedy.

blodge, I do think it's FM who chooses to flaunt meet and greets at outrageous prices and FM who choose to screw fans with fan club memberships. After all, all these things are in their name, it is their responsibility to look after them. If they are too busy to do so, don't start any of these things. Don't hire crooks to operate your shady businesses. It is NOT cool to endorse programs that cheat working-class people out of their hard-earned pay, ESPECIALLY if it's in your name and you don't want to bother with checking out how your name and likeness is being used.

John Run, your post about being an elitist is so off-topic and is in no way related to this discussion. No one EVER said if you attend a concert for $125 you're an elitist. Don't base things off of misconceptions.

I'm sorry if no one likes my opinion, but dammit, this is a band I've loved for years and stood by even when the music wasn't the greatest. This is a band that has helped me throughout my life emotionally and for that I'm eternally grateful. But, I am not grateful enough to allow them to screw me over just because I love them. They are going from being one of the most beloved band of mine to becoming the most despicable becaus eof their shady business and disregard for the people who put them where they are. They're taking us for granted.

[wondergirl9847]

Stevie and Lindsey BOTH grew up with a "silver spoon" in their mouths. They had parents who gave them EVERYTHING they wanted basically...they were each raised in, what sounds like to me the "Cleaver" family. LOL Perfect parents who listen, understand, take care of you, respect you and your choices, etc. So, yeah, they are both spoiled brats, and although they both LOVE music with all their heart, body and soul, they love being pampered (as would I!!!) and are used to the rock star way of life.

Then, again, I can't help but think of them struggling to eat during the BN days....hmmmm.....don't they REMEMBER what it's like to STRUGGLE....it's been too long, I guess....they've blocked it out. LOL

I still love em....

[Sugar]

We all still love them. That's what makes it so disappointing

[strandinthewind]

Well now you people have me a thinkin'

Does anyone know the name of the concert promoter and if they are a public company. Mor elikely than not, they are related to Clear Channel. If they are, then all we need to find out is what state they are in and request a copy of their financial info. they have to publish by law. Maybe this info. is available trhough AOL/TimeWarner. Wouldn't that make for some good reading Almost like the demands for the green rooms we saw earlier this year on Ebay

Also, let's say they sell 10,000 seats per show at $100 per seat - I think this is a good enough average for us to use here. That is $1,000,000 per show in gross revenue. Does anyone know how much the people other than SN and LB get. If we figure out those costs, then we can figure out what SN and LB get per show.

We have ground transportation (at lease six 18 wheelers), roadies, the back up band, the set costs, the techies, the initial people who put up the production costs, the managers, the security, the hotels, the plane, etc. I can tell you the plane probably costs at lest $30,000 per show. Anyone else know any other costs? I think this could be interesting and, possibly fun, to figure out.

[GardenStateGirlie]

I am annoyed by celebrities in general. BUT, i'm more annoyed by the fact that people such as myself WILL GO OUT AND PAY as much as we do to see a concert, to go to a movie, to buy and album, etc. The average person in the United States of America ONLY MAKES ABOUT $35,000-$40,000 per year and the average American LIVES ABOVE THEIR MEANS. Does this make the band and celebrities in general a bunch of assholes or does this make all of us the assholes for allowing them to live as they do??

The reason bands like Fleetwood Mac, The Rolling Stones and The Eagles get away with such high ticket prices is because they are expecting their revenue to come from THE BABY BOOMER GENERATION--the CEO's, the doctors, the lawyers, etc. It's those who are older who can most likely afford their concerts. Of course, knowing all of you on here that are from that generation and knowing my own family, I know that not everyone who likes Fleetwood Mac is a doctor and a lawyer and a CEO.

I know Fleetwood Mac knows that their fanbase is much larger than that...I know they know not everyone can afford $125 on a ticket to see them jam for 2 hours. Those who operate the whole show don't take into account that there may be younger people who enjoy their music. Fleetwood Mac's target audience is not teenagers and young adults such as myself, it's the same people that liked their music in the 70s who have salaried jobs and make enough per year to afford the concert.

I know a lot of us (especially myself) knocked Fleetwood Mac for playing smaller venues in smaller cities but to be honest with you, looking at it now, this to me shows that Fleetwood Mac has never forgotten the people who put them where they are today. They may or may not be involved in this whole fanclub fiasco..I dunno...I tend to think they were kept away from it all because they rely on people to do everything for them but that's my opinion. Does that make them bad people? I don't know that it makes them bad people but it certainly would mean they are sheltered.

Oh, and Jason---they're being promoted by Concerts West....I have a feeling this is a relation of Clear Channel

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie

Oh, and Jason---they're being promoted by Concerts West....I have a feeling this is a relation of Clear Channel

Irving Azoff and Phillip Anschutz (Qwest & railroad magnate) are involved with Concerts West. For those of you who don't know, Irving manages The Eagles and used to manage Stevie. I think he may also manage Christina Aguilera. Clear Channel is in no way connected to Concerts West. I believe CW was started by Jerry Weintraub. In fact, the rumor is that Concerts West is going to buy the ailing House of Blues concert division and (thank God) make a run at Clear Channel. Meanwhile, the concert industry locally is so dismal that House Of Blues and Clear Channel are co-producing shows together so they can make a few bucks and not drive ticket prices through the roof bidding against each other for shows. All the over priced ticket bs started with The Eagles on the Hell Freezes Over Tour when they raised the price of tickets to "what the market would bear." Reunion tours were a novelty then and people were willing to pay astronomical prices to see their favorite band for what was speculated to be the "last time."

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Irving Azoff and Phillip Anschutz (Qwest & railroad magnate) are involved with Concerts West. For those of you who don't know, Irving manages The Eagles and used to manage Stevie. I think he may also manage Christina Aguilera. Clear Channel is in no way connected to Concerts West. I believe CW was started by Jerry Weintraub. In fact, the rumor is that Concerts West is going to buy the ailing House of Blues concert division and (thank God) make a run at Clear Channel. Meanwhile, the concert industry locally is so dismal that House Of Blues and Clear Channel are co-producing shows together so they can make a few bucks and not drive ticket prices through the roof bidding against each other for shows. All the over priced ticket bs started with The Eagles on the Hell Freezes Over Tour when they raised the price of tickets to "what the market would bear." Reunion tours were a novelty then and people were willing to pay astronomical prices to see their favorite band for what was speculated to be the "last time."

Clear Channel is ridiculous. I remember last year there was a report on either 20/20 or Dateline (one of those news programs)that spoke about how concert goers and artists were getting screwed because of them...I believe they interviewed Billy Joel and Dave Matthews (who felt concert prices were ridiculous). And yea, you're absolutely right...the Eagles started that trend and I bet they keep touring and making albums too...lol....ahh...i'm going into the wrong biz

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Sugar
Being a movie star is pretty cool, but being a rock star is just better. Especially a lady rock star. I'm really grateful for it.

SN: So am I. Every day. And that's something I don't think goes away. It's like, I totally appreciate being able to buy, say, this thousand-dollar cashmere blanket. I do. Because if I couldn't, I would hate the fact that I would have to go back to real, regular blankets.

CL: At Penney's.

SN: At Penney's. [Laughing] And I never wanted to go to Penney's even when I was a little girl.

CL: I didn't want to go to Penney's, either. I knew, when I was in there, I knew I shouldn't be in there.

SN: I am not in the right store, Mom.

CL: There's something wrong. This is wrong.

SN: Take me to the good store.

That Courtney Love is a bad influence. Dreadful.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie
Clear Channel is ridiculous. I remember last year there was a report on either 20/20 or Dateline (one of those news programs)that spoke about how concert goers and artists were getting screwed because of them...I believe they interviewed Billy Joel and Dave Matthews (who felt concert prices were ridiculous). And yea, you're absolutely right...the Eagles started that trend and I bet they keep touring and making albums too...lol....ahh...i'm going into the wrong biz

No, you're not. I know alot of people in that industry who are making what everyone else makes. I know we've got some radio people on this board. I think they'd be the first to tell you they ain't gettin' rich. Those people do it for the love of the gig. What's really frightening is CC has been lobbying to change the laws about how many television stations a company can own. I was following that for a while and lost track of the outcome. I'm not sure if it's even been decided yet. Their pockets are very deep and the scope of their influence is practically limitless. Hopefully this is something that doesn't come to pass.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
No, you're not. I know alot of people in that industry who are making what everyone else makes. I know we've got some radio people on this board. I think they'd be the first to tell you they ain't gettin' rich. Those people do it for the love of the gig. What's really frightening is CC has been lobbying to change the laws about how many television stations a company can own. I was following that for a while and lost track of the outcome. I'm not sure if it's even been decided yet. Their pockets are very deep and the scope of their influence is practically limitless. Hopefully this is something that doesn't come to pass.

I'm not interested in making a fortune but I hope to be well-established and respected enough to make some changes in an industry that is going to hell in a handbasket. You can stick any literate attractive moron in a chair and tell them to read off of a teleprompter. I'm not all about that and the people I know aren't either. I think Murrow isn't the only journalist turning over in his grave....I think Jessica Savitch would be kind of shocked at the current state of the media.

Anyway, do you or does anyone else know how many companies CC is affiliated with or owns?? I bet you there are a lot we probably don't even know about. I'm curious.

"Got the bubble-headed bleach blonde Comes on at five She can tell you bout' the plane crash with a gleam in her eye It's interesting when people die Give us dirty laundry"-Don Henley (couldn't resist...love this song..so very true)

[CarneVaca]

Stephmoore, Dissention and Trackaghost, careful, you're beginning to sound like socialists. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

I think some of you have alluded to what I consider to be one of our greatest social ills: It's this acquiescence that has become such a large part of American life (and elsewhere more and more). They want to charge $150 per ticket? If they can, why not? That's short-sighted. I'd be willing to bet that if the rate of job losses continues as it is now in this country, soon enough a lot of rock acts will start canceling concerts. This could happen to Fleetwood Mac too. I'm sure they won't break even on this tour until they are at least halfway through. The reason they added secondary markets for the tour so soon isn't because they care about fans outside major metro areas. It's because someone made a calculation that these cheaper secondary markets would still bring enough fans to still make it worthwhile to play there. So why not load up the tour while it's still selling?

This greed we see in the music business is directly related to the whatever-it-takes greed that has gripped the corporate world, and to a large extent, the politicians it controls. And just as in politics and in the workplace, more and more people throw up their hands and say, What can I do? They're cutting my benefits, but I'm still lucky to have a job. The two guys running for office are both scum, but I'll vote for the less scummy. My favorite band is ripping me off, but what can I do? It's either that or I don't get to see them. Guess what? There are alternatives. Maybe there's a third or fourth guy to vote for that no one is talking about. Don't go to the show. It's a little tougher in the workplace because, in this ****ty economy, they really have you by the, uh, wallet. But if you can get out of a bad situation, do it.

We are not a helpless people. It's just been programmed into our consciousness that we are. And we have started to believe it. While the economy was good, it wasn't as much of a worry. But if things continue on this downward trend, I wonder how many people who continue to justify a system that is no longer working will still do so if they lose their jobs and find very few prospects out there.