Stevie's most criminal songs

[porkpie]

OK - let em start by saying I don't want to slag Stevie but considering how awesome IYD is it got me thinking about what she was thinking at times when the quality control slipped (in my opinion) and wondered if others feel the same.

For me, the worst songs are Silver Girl and Sweet Girl. I think lyrically and musically they're both dull and I hate it when she writes a barely disguised version of herself in the third person as a character. At the time of the Dance, I foundnit really hard to believe that was the strongest song she could have come up with considering that Lyndsey and Christine's songs were all pretty strong. The ther nght I rewatched Destiny Rules and Mick was talking aobut what a strong set of songs Stevie brought to the project, but again I'm surprised Silver Girl made the cut.

What are everyone else's thoughts on these songs?

[tabruns]

I agree with you in that Stevie had a period of years where the quality of her material slipped, but I wouldn't pick "Silver Girl" or especially "Sweet Girl" (which I consider to be a strong song) as evidence of same.

For me Nicks' career has been something like this:

1. Classic Nicks (includes the albums Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, Tusk and Bella Donna) - the fact that Nicks could only get her best songs on the first 3 Mac albums helped establish her reputation as a talented songwriter. For her first solo album she was able to cull from a big backlog of songs, so she came up with a very strong set.

2. Cocaine Nicks (Mirage, Wild Heart and Rock A Little) - For these albums Nicks still has moments of brilliance but you can see the effect that massive cocaine use is having on her music. She's getting somewhat sloppy, and some of the songs lack the focus of the earlier material. Each consecutive album shows more of the impact of coke.

3. Klonopin Nicks (Tango In The Night, The Other Side Of The Mirror, Behind The Mask, Street Angel). While coke made Nicks erratic and wild, klonopin dulled her senses and her songwriting ability. Again, each consecutive album shows more of the effect - by the time of Street Angel, Nicks was reduced to recording songs that had been left-overs from previous recording sessions. Her songs during this period became more and more pedestrian, lacking that magic spark that they used to have. She also began to rely more on outside writers for the music than previously.

4. Recovery Nicks ("Paper Doll", "Twisted", The Dance, Trouble In Shangri-La, Say You Will, In Your Dreams). IMO what we see here are momentary returns to form ("Paper Doll", "Twisted" and "Sweet Girl") that became more and more consistent as time went on. TISL was Nicks' most focused album since Bella Donna. Had Say You Will been a regular Mac album - i.e. with 3 Nicks songs on it - she probably would have turned in "Say You Will", "Thrown Down" and I think "Illume" (even though many people on here don't like it....she, Lindsey and Mick all do). In Your Dreams is a great album, probably her first to really reach "classic Mac" levels.

[Thrown_Down]

Originally Posted by tabruns

I agree with you in that Stevie had a period of years where the quality of her material slipped, but I wouldn't pick "Silver Girl" or especially "Sweet Girl" (which I consider to be a strong song) as evidence of same.

For me Nicks' career has been something like this:

1. Classic Nicks (includes the albums Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, Tusk and Bella Donna) - the fact that Nicks could only get her best songs on the first 3 Mac albums helped establish her reputation as a talented songwriter. For her first solo album she was able to cull from a big backlog of songs, so she came up with a very strong set.

2. Cocaine Nicks (Mirage, Wild Heart and Rock A Little) - For these albums Nicks still has moments of brilliance but you can see the effect that massive cocaine use is having on her music. She's getting somewhat sloppy, and some of the songs lack the focus of the earlier material. Each consecutive album shows more of the impact of coke.

3. Klonopin Nicks (Tango In The Night, The Other Side Of The Mirror, Behind The Mask, Street Angel). While coke made Nicks erratic and wild, klonopin dulled her senses and her songwriting ability. Again, each consecutive album shows more of the effect - by the time of Street Angel, Nicks was reduced to recording songs that had been left-overs from previous recording sessions. Her songs during this period became more and more pedestrian, lacking that magic spark that they used to have. She also began to rely more on outside writers for the music than previously.

4. Recovery Nicks ("Paper Doll", "Twisted", The Dance, Trouble In Shangri-La, Say You Will, In Your Dreams). IMO what we see here are momentary returns to form ("Paper Doll", "Twisted" and "Sweet Girl") that became more and more consistent as time went on. TISL was Nicks' most focused album since Bella Donna. Had Say You Will been a regular Mac album - i.e. with 3 Nicks songs on it - she probably would have turned in "Say You Will", "Thrown Down" and I think "Illume" (even though many people on here don't like it....she, Lindsey and Mick all do). In Your Dreams is a great album, probably her first to really reach "classic Mac" levels.

I'd agree with all that, but I would be more inclined to put Wild Heart in the classic section.

[tabruns]

Originally Posted by Thrown_Down

I'd agree with all that, but I would be more inclined to put Wild Heart in the classic section.

Yep. And some would put Rock A Little in classic mode as well.

It should be stressed that even though Nicks was producing albums while dependent on coke and then on klonopin that she was still making music that people love....even though one can hear the effect of each on the albums. This is particularly true of albums produced later in the dependency.

The only work of hers that I have a hard time embracing is the Tango In The Night-Behind The Mask-Street Angel period. IMO during those albums she was rarely producing songs anywhere near the quality of her earlier work, and the best track from that time period ("Seven Wonders") wasn't written by her at all.

[fumidesigns]

Originally Posted by tabruns

I agree with you in that Stevie had a period of years where the quality of her material slipped, but I wouldn't pick "Silver Girl" or especially "Sweet Girl" (which I consider to be a strong song) as evidence of same.

For me Nicks' career has been something like this:

1. Classic Nicks (includes the albums Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, Tusk and Bella Donna) - the fact that Nicks could only get her best songs on the first 3 Mac albums helped establish her reputation as a talented songwriter. For her first solo album she was able to cull from a big backlog of songs, so she came up with a very strong set.

2. Cocaine Nicks (Mirage, Wild Heart and Rock A Little) - For these albums Nicks still has moments of brilliance but you can see the effect that massive cocaine use is having on her music. She's getting somewhat sloppy, and some of the songs lack the focus of the earlier material. Each consecutive album shows more of the impact of coke.

3. Klonopin Nicks (Tango In The Night, The Other Side Of The Mirror, Behind The Mask, Street Angel). While coke made Nicks erratic and wild, klonopin dulled her senses and her songwriting ability. Again, each consecutive album shows more of the effect - by the time of Street Angel, Nicks was reduced to recording songs that had been left-overs from previous recording sessions. Her songs during this period became more and more pedestrian, lacking that magic spark that they used to have. She also began to rely more on outside writers for the music than previously.

4. Recovery Nicks ("Paper Doll", "Twisted", The Dance, Trouble In Shangri-La, Say You Will, In Your Dreams). IMO what we see here are momentary returns to form ("Paper Doll", "Twisted" and "Sweet Girl") that became more and more consistent as time went on. TISL was Nicks' most focused album since Bella Donna. Had Say You Will been a regular Mac album - i.e. with 3 Nicks songs on it - she probably would have turned in "Say You Will", "Thrown Down" and I think "Illume" (even though many people on here don't like it....she, Lindsey and Mick all do). In Your Dreams is a great album, probably her first to really reach "classic Mac" levels.

well said my dear!!!!!

[Jondalar]

Paper Doll and Sweet Girl were awful.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by tabruns

, and the best track from that time period ("Seven Wonders") wasn't written by her at all.

and neither was it recorded during the Klonopin era but rather over Halloween weekend of 1986 just before she went to Betty Ford making it the last of her "coke" songs.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by Thrown_Down

I'd agree with all that, but I would be more inclined to put Wild Heart in the classic section.

Naw, "The Wild Heart" is the album when Stevie began her dependence on collaboraters (Sandy Stewart co-wrote the music tracks on 3 songs & Petty again wrote one, while Prince basically wrote the music track to Stand Back, which is essentially Little Red Corvette's chord progression with different lyrics & melody) And even more co-writer dependence when RAL was released having only 3 sole Stevie penned songs. That was a shock for us fans who were wondering where the mad hatter prolific songwriter of Bella Donna had gone.

There was so much pressure after Bella Donna's blockbuster success with its string of hit singles to deliver more of the same, that Jimmy & Stevie turned more and more to outside writers (remember JI was always on the hunt for Stevie next big single, unsure if Stevie could deliver one unintentionally on her own. So Stevie definitely ramped up her coke use after Bella Donna, not only to keep up her hectic schedule balancing FM (Mirage) & her exploding solo career going into the making The Wild Heart, not to mention she was already exhibiting obvious outward signs of abuse during the "Mirage" tour and in her person life by making wildly impulsive decisions like marrying Kim Anderson (Robin's widower).

So yeah, I'd agree that Mirage through Rock A Little, and I'd also throw in Tango In The Night were the "Cocaine Nicks" years. I add TITN only because the majority of her written or submitted material and her vocals were recorded before she went into rehab. (think "Seven Wonders" wild wicked vocals, again on display on WISYA and the outtakes & demos; "Joan Of Arc", "Juliet" & What Has Rock n'Roll Ever Done For You" ). The Klonopin started to rear its head subtly during some TITN promotional interviews & the "Shake The Cage" tour later, but it was much more evident on OSOTM and that tour - which was exacerbated when Stevie broke her foot in her pool @ a month before it kicked-off, which prolly led not only to a ramp up on her Klonopin, but pain medication or Tranquilizers as well. Accordingly, her OSOTM tour has 2 distinctions. It the only tour Stevie absolutely has no recollection of... AT ALL And the foot accident led to the 1st sighting of the Stevie in Frankenboks on stage.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by Christopher

Naw, "The Wild Heart" is the album when Stevie began her dependence on collaboraters (Sandy Stewart co-wrote the music tracks on 3 songs & Petty again wrote one, while Prince basically wrote the music track to Stand Back, which is essentially Little Red Corvette's chord progression with different lyrics & melody) And even more co-writer dependence when RAL was released having only 3 sole Stevie penned songs. That was a shock for us fans who were wondering where the mad hatter prolific songwriter of Bella Donna had gone.

There was so much pressure after Bella Donna's blockbuster success with its string of hit singles to deliver more of the same, that Jimmy & Stevie turned more and more to outside writers (remember JI was always on the hunt for Stevie next big single, unsure if Stevie could deliver one unintentionally on her own. So Stevie definitely ramped up her coke use after Bella Donna, not only to keep up her hectic schedule balancing FM (Mirage) & her exploding solo career going into the making The Wild Heart, not to mention she was already exhibiting obvious outward signs of abuse during the "Mirage" tour and in her person life by making wildly impulsive decisions like marrying Kim Anderson (Robin's widower).

So yeah, I'd agree that Mirage through Rock A Little, and I'd also throw in Tango In The Night were the "Cocaine Nicks" years. I add TITN only because the majority of her written or submitted material and her vocals were recorded before she went into rehab. (think "Seven Wonders" wild wicked vocals, again on display on WISYA and the outtakes & demos; "Joan Of Arc", "Juliet" & What Has Rock n'Roll Ever Done For You" ). The Klonopin started to rear its head subtly during some TITN promotional interviews & the "Shake The Cage" tour later, but it was much more evident on OSOTM and that tour - which was exacerbated when Stevie broke her foot in her pool @ a month before it kicked-off, which prolly led not only to a ramp up on her Klonopin, but pain medication or Tranquilizers as well. Accordingly, her OSOTM tour has 2 distinctions. It the only tour Stevie absolutely has no recollection of... AT ALL And the foot accident led to the 1st sighting of the Stevie in Frankenboks on stage.

U are giving Prince way toooo much credit for Stand Back. It's not essentially his song and eventhough it was inspired by Little Red Corvet, it doesn't sound anything like it. And the Petty song was the weakest song on the album.

[fumidesigns]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Paper Doll and Sweet Girl were awful.

damn sure are! i can't staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Sweet Girl! that always gets skipped! and my God when Silver Girl comes on, i just stare at my ipod and say "y haven't i taken this off here yet!?"

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

U are giving Prince way toooo much credit for Stand Back. It's not essentially his song and eventhough it was inspired by Little Red Corvet, it doesn't sound anything like it. And the Petty song was the weakest song on the album.

All I'm saying is the chord progression is the same. Even Stevie admits that she hummed her song & lyrics right in between Prince's & viola Stand Back was born. If you have any musical ability or ear, it's easy to spot. I can sing Stand Back easily while Little Red Corvette is playing and visa versa. I agree Stevie came up with a whole different song and feel, but the chords and key are the same.

[Hawkeye]

Whats with all this Sweet Girl hate. Thats one of my all time favotie Stevie songs. It's almost her theme song. "she chose to dance across the stages of the world."

And it's a part of the Ghost through the fog triology Fumi, you can't hate it

[bluefox4000]

Her cover of just like a woman. Criminal. Listen to Ritchie's Havens cover. That is how you do that song

OTHERS.

When I See You Again

Illume, Yawn

That's alright, Country crap.

I gotta stop

Mick

[fumidesigns]

Originally Posted by bluefox4000

Her cover of just like a woman. Criminal. Listen to Ritchie's Havens cover. That is how you do that song

OTHERS.

When I See You

Illume, Yawn

That's alright, Country crap.

I gotta stop

Mick

bite your tongue! i love this song lmao!

[markolas]

I'm gonna go through all the albums (FM & solo) and just list the songs I can't stand:

- Nothing Ever Changes
- I Will Run to You
- When I See You Again
- Two Kinds of Love
- Desert Angel
- Sometimes it's a Bitch
- Love's a Hard Game to Play
- Unconditional Love
- Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind
- Jane
- One More Big Time Rock & Roll Star
- That Made Me Stronger
- Too Far from Texas (good song, hideous vocal)
- Not Make Believe

I could take or leave most of her SYW songs, but there aren't any I'd classify as "criminal," except for Not Make Believe. But the ones on this list, she simply never should've recorded (IMO), with the possible exception of Too Far from Texas - she should've at least tried for a better vocal.