Oh Wise and Worldy Ledgies

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

So then, by all means, so are some of you.

Oh really? How so? By clarifying exactly that we mean that people shouldn't be denied the right to a church wedding?

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Sarah

Oh really? How so? By clarifying exactly that we mean that people shouldn't be denied the right to a church wedding?

Well the topic i'm discussing is the officiant. Carrie seems to be under the impression that they are all "religious figures." This is not true, by a longshot. WHERE the officiant marries a couple has no bearing on the documents being official. Having everyone march down to the courthouse is ridiculous. It'll never go over; and that mindset is not fair, its hardly feasible, and probably less than favourable with most Americans.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

It'll never go over; and that mindset is not fair, its hardly feasible, and probably less than favourable with most Americans.

Only allowing heterosexual people to marry is not exactly fair, either, but most voting Americans seem to think it's good enough to go over.

I still say if you're too damn lazy to sign the documents at the courthouse, you don't have what it takes to be in a working relationship.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Sarah

Only allowing heterosexual people to marry is not exactly fair, either, but most voting Americans seem to think it's good enough to go over.

I still say if you're too damn lazy to sign the documents at the courthouse, you don't have what it takes to be in a working relationship.

That comment about the courthouse "lines" was tongue in cheek. Laugh a little. Its a lovely day.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Well the topic i'm discussing is the officiant. Carrie seems to be under the impression that they are all "religious figures." This is not true, by a longshot. WHERE the officiant marries a couple has no bearing on the documents being official. Having everyone march down to the courthouse is ridiculous. It'll never go over; and that mindset is not fair, its hardly feasible, and probably less than favourable with most Americans.

you are completely misrepresenting and misunderstanding my stance.

i am not under the impression that they are all religious figures.

and no ****, WHERE the couple gets married has no bearing on its legality.

and why is it ridiculous? there are legal hoops you have to jump through to get married in a church anyway - blood tests and, yes, trips to the courthouse. maybe you should look into that since you're getting married soon.

am i being clear enough now?

[DrummerDeanna]

You know...I was thinking...even though it's NOT the point Carrie was trying to make AT ALL.

WHERE people can get married is even a bitch for the gays. Two of my lesbian friends recently got hitched and they had a bitch of a time simply finding a nice place to do so.

Fair? Don't even try to bring "fair" into this argument....there is no fairness. Everything is clouded by religious values that people are trying to impose upon everyone else.

If someone can give me one. Just one valid, rational, NON RELIGIOUS reason as to why gay people should not be given the right to marry then my ears are open.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

If someone can give me one. Just one valid, rational, NON RELIGIOUS reason as to why gay people should not be given the right to marry then my ears are open.

Cuz them monkies brought the aids on and the jerry fallwell types'll just have a conniption fit. (in my best backwoods country preacher voice)

I dont think giving you a valid reason to deny gay people marriage is the point of the conversation. It wasnt my reason for this discussion. I cant, after all, give you one.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Cuz them monkies brought the aids on and the jerry fallwell types'll just have a conniption fit. (in my best backwoods country preacher voice)

I dont think giving you a valid reason to deny gay people marriage is the point of the conversation. It wasnt my reason for this discussion. I cant, after all, give you one.

I wasn't asking YOU to - I was saying, in a broad sense, that there are no good reasons to deny same sex couples the right to marry. Nor did I say it was the reason for the discussion - I was just saying that it's silly to bring the word "fair" into the equation.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I wasn't asking YOU to - I was saying, in a broad sense, that there are no good reasons to deny same sex couples the right to marry. Nor did I say it was the reason for the discussion - I was just saying that it's silly to bring the word "fair" into the equation.

I know you werent singling me out. i was merely, giving my 2 cents on your thoughts. =)

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

You know...I was thinking...even though it's NOT the point Carrie was trying to make AT ALL.

WHERE people can get married is even a bitch for the gays. Two of my lesbian friends recently got hitched and they had a bitch of a time simply finding a nice place to do so.

Fair? Don't even try to bring "fair" into this argument....there is no fairness. Everything is clouded by religious values that people are trying to impose upon everyone else.

If someone can give me one. Just one valid, rational, NON RELIGIOUS reason as to why gay people should not be given the right to marry then my ears are open.

nobody could. religion is so woven into every part of our society that nobody could explain it in non-religious terms.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by carrie721

nobody could. religion is so woven into every part of our society that nobody could explain it in non-religious terms.

I know. Which is why I make the offer Absolutely no one has been able to give me any good reason outside of the whole religious thing. And to be honest - I don't even buy the religious view because, well, it's not a valid one

A couple of little passages taken completely out of historical and other types of context do not the basis for discrimination make.

I mean they used the Bible to discriminate against Black people - and women. Anyway...I'm not a valid Christian anyway so what does my opinion matter

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I mean they used the Bible to discriminate against Black people - and women. Anyway...I'm not a valid Christian anyway so what does my opinion matter

Thats funny because the Bible states that the Lord is the Lord of all men, regardless of colour and creed. Its a shame someone would use that book for such purposes.

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by carrie721

nobody could. religion is so woven into every part of our society that nobody could explain it in non-religious terms.

got enough guilt to start my own religion

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

got enough guilt to start my own religion

Aww dont say that! That makes me feel for you. It truly does. I have my own guilt I've to deal with...it was real bad in the past. Including my bitterness towards church, and faith, and God and what have you.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by carrie721

you are completely misrepresenting and misunderstanding my stance.

i am not under the impression that they are all religious figures.

and no ****, WHERE the couple gets married has no bearing on its legality.

and why is it ridiculous? there are legal hoops you have to jump through to get married in a church anyway - blood tests and, yes, trips to the courthouse. maybe you should look into that since you're getting married soon.

am i being clear enough now?

No I GET what you are saying. an officiant, religious or no, comes into conflict by marrying someone in a church because of the seperation of church and state. Where you are missing the point is that it isnt a conflict according to current (or "modern") definitions. The state would neither be funding, or endorsing marriage by allowing its officiant to perform the ceremony (the officiant is getting paid after all)...and the church is neither endorsing the state institution by something as nutty as, say, having a religious wedding in a courthouse.

I'm getting married at a big house downtown by Lake Lucerne...By a longtime friend who happens to be an officiant, and a Christian, but he's not a minster. Go figure.