Please Die Fighting for My Rights

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

And yes, if there is a heaven I'd imagine that a non-believer who has lived a good life would deserve to go there when they die and would be accepted with open arms. Do you think really think that not believing in God, or the right God or whatever, voids all their good deeds? The fact that you equate someone who doesn't believe in God with someone who deserves to burn in hell disturbs me. Having been brought up Catholic let me tell you, believing in God and even devoting your life to Him, doesn't automatically make you a good person.

Very well said. I am a Christian. But I don't follow the doctrine of any one relegion - and I don't believe the Bible is concrete fact (merely a TOOL to be used for guidance).

I believe everyone goes to "heaven" - or enjoys something in the afterlife- because God is a loving and FORGIVING God (is forgiveness not one of the main teaching of Christianity?). But I do believe there is a hell - and it's reserved for those who don't want forgiveness - who don't and never will see that the "bad" they did is, in fact, bad - extreme cases I guess - it's hard for me to actually put my feelings on that in writing because well it sounds a little kooky.

I hate the whole "you have to accept Jesus as your savior in order to get to heaven" thing. It's crap. With that belief the millions of people killed in Holocaust or many of those being killed in Darfur are automatically hell-bound. That's ridiculous.


In all - the people who cancel services because someone is gay are not Christian. People who judge other people because of what they believe or who they love are not Christian - they are taking Christian teachings and tossing them aside in the name of God. Not what we are called to do.

"And they'll know we are Christians by our love" -- not so true anymore...the opposite is pretty much true and I hate how fundies and judgemental bigots have distorted Christianity - it makes me very sad.

[carrie721]

^^

[The Tower]

I don't believe in anything supernatural, nor do I subscribe to any religious dogma that man created in order to explain things/concepts that they couldn't understand or answer for at the time that the dogma was created.

With that said-

If I were the family from this thread, I would have had a private gathering honoring his life without considering sanction from some religious institution.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I am a Christian.

But I don't follow the I don't believe the Bible is concrete fact (merely a TOOL to be used for guidance).

I believe everyone goes to "heaven" -

But I do believe there is a hell - and it's reserved for those who don't want forgiveness

I hate the whole "you have to accept Jesus as your savior in order to get to heaven" thing. It's crap.

Everything you said below the first sentence was contradictory to the first statement. I am by no means perfect, but if I was saying what you are saying, I'd re-examine my heart.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Everything you said below the first sentence was contradictory to the first statement. I am by no means perfect, but if I was saying what you are saying, I'd re-examine my heart.

It is in no way contradictory.

I am a Christian in that I believe in Jesus. I believe in God. How I choose to follow through with my beliefs and how I view things and the world are not contradictory. Perhaps they are contradictory to whaveter narrow view you clearly have is.

And some of the things YOU describe as God - others see as science.

The non-beliefe in God is no less "baseless" or absurd than your belief in God.

Can you provide concrete proof of one other than your own belief? NO. And conversley - no one can provide concrete proof there is not one? No.

So basically we all believe what we believe - no one is the less for it - and no one's own personal beliefs should be labeled as "baseless" or as silly or wrong.


You tell me to reexamine my heart of whatever - yet you claim to not be on a high horse. Clearly you are - at least what you've been saying comes across that way. What I'm getting is "I'm right and you all need to re-examine because you're wrong" and basically that doesn't sit too well with lots of folks.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

It is in no way contradictory.

I am a Christian in that I believe in Jesus. I believe in God. How I choose to follow through with my beliefs and how I view things and the world are not contradictory. Perhaps they are contradictory to whaveter narrow view you clearly have is.

And some of the things YOU describe as God - others see as science.

The non-beliefe in God is no less "baseless" or absurd than your belief in God.

Can you provide concrete proof of one other than your own belief? NO. And conversley - no one can provide concrete proof there is not one? No.

So basically we all believe what we believe - no one is the less for it - and no one's own personal beliefs should be labeled as "baseless" or as silly or wrong.


You tell me to reexamine my heart of whatever - yet you claim to not be on a high horse. Clearly you are - at least what you've been saying comes across that way. What I'm getting is "I'm right and you all need to re-examine because you're wrong" and basically that doesn't sit too well with lots of folks.

I could never say I was a "Christian" and say that I didnt believe the Bible was true....or that you dont need to believe in Jesus Christ. That is the fundamental belief! I personally dont think a "broad" view of Christianity is acceptible. I would much rather believe that my own personal narrow mindness (in regards to me, myself and I salvation) is right, rather than believing "everyone goes to heaven" theory.

I've apologized more than once in this thread for coming across as being on a "High horse"...and I've stated I am in no way perfect. I'm trying to understand why some of you believe WHAT you do...thats all. I really and truly not mean to be a prick. I'm sorry! I care about everyone here...hell, I've been on here for 6 years. I will say this has sparked some interesting discussion.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I could never say I was a "Christian" and say that I didnt believe the Bible was true....or that you dont need to believe in Jesus Christ. That is the fundamental belief! I personally dont think a "broad" view of Christianity is acceptible. I would much rather believe that my own personal narrow mindness (in regards to me, myself and I salvation) is right, rather than believing "everyone goes to heaven" theory.

Well that may be fine for you - I personally don't think many of the "Christians" today are. If the Bible is such a true thing - why is no one sacrificing Oxen anymore? The smell pleases The Lord you know. Before you say because that's outdated - it's in the same book that "condemns" homosexuals - even though homosexuality as we know it today is actually not condemned in the Bible - there is a lot of historical context to be taken into account in the Bible.

You wanna talk contradictions - read the Bible cover to cover. Talk about condtradictory!

It was written by man. It's been edited by man for years and years - it's a tool and that's how I see it - it's not meant to be taken literally word for word. If it were then you better be repenting if you've ever touched your girlfriend while she has her period - because that's also condemned in the Bible!!!

Taking the Bible literally has led to people using it as a weapon (it was used to deny Black people equal rights and status).

I'm Catholic by upbringing anyway, so I'm used to self-righteous "Christians" saying I'm not truly a Christian anyway - no big. I know my heart and I know God and His place in my life - and with that I'm content.

And believing that one does not have to "accept Jesus as their own personal Lord and Savior" does not make me less of a Christian. I just refuse to believe that God would damn billions of people to hell simply because they don't follow one western religion.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I'm trying to understand why some of you believe WHAT you do...thats all.

You keep saying that you're truly interested in finding out why people believe what they do, but the words you use in the actual conversation point to a different motivation. The way it comes across to me and to several others is that you're trying to find out what people believe so that you can tell them why they're wrong and why you're right. If you really want open conversation, then you need to learn to reserve judgement.

But I don't believe that open conversation is your goal anyway.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

You keep saying that you're truly interested in finding out why people believe what they do, but the words you use in the actual conversation point to a different motivation. The way it comes across to me and to several others is that you're trying to find out what people believe so that you can tell them why they're wrong and why you're right. If you really want open conversation, then you need to learn to reserve judgement.

But I don't believe that open conversation is your goal anyway.

I have meant no condemnation...maybe there was a little sarcasm in there. I think ultimately, anyone who really cares for those around them (especially those that share no belief in anything) would do the same.

I will defend myself in saying that i have said more than once that I am of course referring to Myself, my personal salvation...what I believe is right for ME...but in doing so, its always going to come across as if you're pushing it on someone else. It's not my intention. The intention is to merely get across what my conviction has rewarded me.

I tried my best to back up why I believe what I do, and the points I made...when other arguments were made based (less) on opinions. You seemingly were quick to point out that i was being holier than thou. Maybe thats just what I needed...

because I do believe that your journey thru this life...all the way to the end, is a personal thing. And I suppose that no matter what you truly believe, when you reach this end of this life...your beliefs and actions with either condemn you or give you life.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Hey I can name all 52 of them!!

well clearly you're the exception