Executed man's last request honored -- pizza for homeless

[irishgrl]

Dee, I found this from Niki's website...looks like you may have a point.....

California spends millions more on capital cases
California spends $90 Million dollars annually above and beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system on capital cases. $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988). In January 2003, despite a budge deficit, California Governor Gray Davis proposed building a new $220 million state of the art death row. (New York Times, January 14, 2003).

well, well, Niki's fact sheet disproved the stereotypical "death row is disproportionately populated by blacks" theory (which many (Including myself and Amber apparently!) mistakenly believed):

Races on Death Row:
White: 45%
Black 42%
Hispanic 11%
Other 2%

Race of Death Row Inmates actually executed:
White 57%
Black 34%
Hispanic 7%
Other 2%

Another interesting tidbit: 80% of the time, the victims in Death Row cases are White.

California has the most inmates on death row (660) but Texas and Virginia executed the most death row inmates. A death sentence in CA is not necessarily a death sentence apparently.....

[strandinthewind]

What does

. . . above and beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system on capital cases. $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988).

mean? Capital cases do not require any more prep than a life case - at least no significant amount at the trial level. And, certainly lifers appeal as much as the death row inmates So, I am not understanding the numbers behind these stats.

And -

In January 2003, despite a budge deficit, California Governor Gray Davis proposed building a new $220 million state of the art death row. (New York Times, January 14, 2003).

Is that an addition to the prison overall or just that one hall of inmates? Me thinks that figure is being manipulated.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

What does



mean? Capital cases do not require any more prep than a life case - at least no significant amount at the trial level. And, certainly lifers appeal as much as the death row inmates So, I am not understanding the numbers behind these stats.

And -



Is that an addition to the prison overall or just that one hall of inmates? Me thinks that figure is being manipulated.

I doubt that facility was ever built, remember CA was having financial troubles then, and many counties were declaring bankruptcy and State Employees were paid via voucher.

Gosh, if we cant trust fact sheets to be factual, where do we get solid info?

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

well, well, Niki's fact sheet disproved the stereotypical "death row is disproportionately populated by blacks" theory (which many (Including myself and Amber apparently!) mistakenly believed):

If blacks make up 13% of the total population in America, yet 42% of all death row inmates, then death row is most certainly disproportionately populated by blacks. No one is saying there are more black people on death row than whites, the key word is "disproportionate".

Another interesting tidbit: 80% of the time, the victims in Death Row cases are White.

Interesting and not surprising.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

If blacks make up 13% of the total population in America, yet 42% of all death row inmates, then death row is most certainly disproportionately populated by blacks. No one is saying there are more black people on death row than whites, the key word is "disproportionate".




Interesting and not surprising.

are they in fact only 13% of the population? I'd venture to say thats not the case in CA I guess I'll take a quick look at the Census data for CA...

ETA: apparently the total US proportion of Blacks is a little over 12% and in CA, Blacks comprise approx 6%

well, then, are those fact sheets from the Death Penalty Info site to be trusted after all?

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

well, then, are those fact sheets from the Death Penalty Info site to be trusted after all?

Of course...they give the facts. I was just saying that the interpretation that blacks are disproportionately represented on death row is an accurate one.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

Of course...they give the facts. I was just saying that the interpretation that blacks are disproportionately represented on death row is an accurate one.

it depends: if you are looking at the RACE factor then ok, but if you are looking at the raw data, then they dont appear to be targets as some might think. I guess it makes a difference which point you are trying to make, whether there are more Blacks on Death Row or more Blacks compared to their proportion of the total population.

I personally dont see why race needs to be brought into this

ETA: sparky said it better

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I personally dont see why race needs to be brought into this

I don't think you can have a complete discussion of death penalty without bringing in race.

I didn't really intend to get into this thread. Abortion and death penalty are two topics I don't normally discuss with people. I was just responding that blacks are indeed disproportionately represented on death row compared to their percentage of the overall population. The reasons why is a whole different discussion.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

. . . I didn't really intend to get into this thread. Abortion and death penalty are two topics I don't normally discuss with people. I was just responding that blacks are indeed disproportionately represented on death row compared to their percentage of the overall population. The reasons why is a whole different discussion.

I am enjoying the conversation and find your points thought provoking and challenging.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

If blacks make up 13% of the total population in America, yet 42% of all death row inmates, then death row is most certainly disproportionately populated by blacks. No one is saying there are more black people on death row than whites, the key word is "disproportionate".

I always find this kind of statistic confusing, and perhaps even misleading.

Is the number supposed to indicate simply that more blacks get the death penalty than any other race, all crimes being equal, or is it simply a reflection of the percentage of the number of blacks convicted of crimes eligible for the death penalty?

What I am getting at is are there simply more blacks on death row because there are just that many more blacks committing crimes that get them there?
I truly don't know.

I guess the telling statistic would be what percentage of each race eligible for the death penalty gets that pinned to their sentence. This statistic is kind of without a point unless that is known.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by sparky

I always find this kind of statistic confusing, and perhaps even misleading.

Is the number supposed to indicate simply that more blacks get the death penalty than any other race, all crimes being equal, or is it simply a reflection of the percentage of the number of blacks convicted of crimes eligible for the death penalty?

What I am getting at is are there simply more blacks on death row because there are just that many more blacks committing crimes that get them there?
I truly don't know.

I guess the telling statistic would be what percentage of each race eligible for the death penalty gets that pinned to their sentence. This statistic is kind of without a point unless that is known.

sparky, this may help:

Race of Death Row Inmates actually executed:
White 57%
Black 34%
Hispanic 7%
Other 2%

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

sparky, this may help:

I think what sparky is saying is it would be helpful to know the breakdown, by race, of people who were eligible for the death penalty sentence and actually received it. For example, if 50% of whites who were eligible based on their crime actually wound up on death row, but 77% of blacks who were eligible wound up on death row, then that would surely suggest a racial bias.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by sparky

I guess the telling statistic would be what percentage of each race eligible for the death penalty gets that pinned to their sentence.

I completely agree. I wonder if this data exists. Without it, we can only come to our own conclusions and interpretations. To me, the percentage of blacks in death row compared to their overall percentage of society suggests racism in the judicial system. Especially when combined with the info posted by irishgirl about 80% of death penalty cases having a white victim.

Others might come to the conclusion, as you suggested, that the higher percentage is simply the result of higher percentage of blacks engaging in crimes that would get them a death penalty sentence.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

. . . the percentage of blacks in death row compared to their overall percentage of society suggests racism in the judicial system . . . .

This is an interesting point, but it's validity somewhat depends on the premise I noted earlier. Does the socioeconomic background of these black murderers (and other criminals) somehow excuse the conduct to the point that we can call their subsequent convictions and executions a conscious act of racism?

An interesting distinction could be to compare all crime amongst the poor and then by race -- then see which group compared individually and to the whole is worse. If poor black people commit more crimes than poor Asian, Hispanic, and/or White people, what does that say? Does it suggest that the police target the black people more often? That could be, but if it is murder we are talking about, the investigation is hardly that of hanging out in a black neighborhood waiting for shoplifters -- There is a body, etc. - no matter the race.

So, if we conclude that in that 13% population of black, more murders exist, how is the prosecution of that racist rather than a factual occurrence? In other words, as I said earlier, do we conclude that society or neglect made them this way – this dependence of drugs and violence, which I suggest are the cause or play a significant part in the vast majority of murders amongst the poor? Or, are these people responsible for their own actions despite the poor upbringings?

I do not know the answer to this other than most if not all people know that if you kill someone, you are likely to be killed by the state no matter where you come from or your race

Also, if we had the real numbers, then the percentages on death row when compared to the percentages in society may not be all that different.

Anyway – food for thought