Pres Bill Clinton Bitch Slaps Chris Wallace on FOX

[strandinthewind]

^^^^^

I know that - but my original, general point was how the D's are going to defeat the R's in the next month and in the next two years. To do that, they must as a party a la the R's present a plan to withdraw from Iraq and they all must a la the R's all solidly behind it. I think we are talking about two different things.

Mary - here is an article on the genesis of products liability. Clearly, it was developed to benefit the consumer as it allowed the consumer a legal avenue of relief not previously available because there was no contract between the injured party and the supplier of the defective product. This occured at least 50 or 60 years before the 70's - though it did expand in the 70's as you said

http://www.pointoflaw.com/products/overview.php

and another

http://www.marlerclark.com/WPMarlerC...ty%20law%20%22

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

^^^^^
enesis of products liability. Clearly, it was developed to benefit the consumer as it allowed the consumer a legal avenue of relief not previously available because there was no contract between the injured party and the supplier of the defective product. This occured at least 50 or 60 years before the 70's - though it did expand in the 70's as you said

http://www.pointoflaw.com/products/overview.php

and another

http://www.marlerclark.com/WPMarlerC...ty%20law%20%22

I wasnt referring to products liability per se but rather the actual expansion of consumer protection but I can see the connection to proucts liability given the information you posted.

in any event, I believe that big business has successfully managed to neutralize consumer protection thanks to a congress williing to pass business friendly laws...for example, class actions are now quite restricted ...

[Nixxxed]

Uh oh...

Bush Blamed More Than Clinton for Failure to Capture Bin Laden
Views are predictably partisan; independents mostly blame Bush

September 27, 2006
by Lydia Saad
GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

(Excerpt
PRINCETON, NJ -- The recent firestorm over former President Bill Clinton's culpability for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks was fueled on Tuesday when Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice contrasted President Bush's efforts to pursue al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden with Clinton's efforts. Clinton has strongly denied various suggestions that his administration missed key opportunities to kill bin Laden and left the Bush administration without a comprehensive anti-terrorism strategy. However, Bush -- whom Clinton says did nothing about al-Qaeda for the first eight months of his presidency -- has the bigger image problem with Americans on the issue.

According to a recent Gallup Panel survey, the American public puts the primary blame on Bush rather than Clinton for the fact that bin Laden has not been captured. A majority of Americans say Bush is more to blame (53%), compared with 36% blaming Clinton.

Click for more stats and bar charts (everyone loves a good bar chart, right???):
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=24733

[irishgrl]

btw and in case anyone cares, on Democracy Now, this morning Amy Goodman said that a current poll of Iraqis shows that the MAJORITY want the US out NOW.

State Dept Poll: 75% of Baghdad Residents Want U.S. Out

Only the Politicians in Iraq want us to remain, presumably to ensure their continued power..........I dont think a "phased pullout" is the answer, and no, we cant "fix" it even if we did cause the problem in the first place by invading. Iraq is poised on the brink of civil war because the Sunnis and the Shi'ites refuse to share power. They have very different ideas about how things should be done, and these arent the types to compromise. For them, government and religion are inextricably intertwined, and the two sects are at an impasse. Anyone who thinks that we can "fix" Iraq is incredibly naive.

heres a link:
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi...t=250&lb=hmpg1

here's a graph:


pertinent excerpts:

large majority of Iraqis—71%—say they would like the Iraqi government to ask for US-led forces to be withdrawn from Iraq within a year or less. Given four options, 37 percent take the position that they would like US-led forces withdrawn “within six months,” while another 34 percent opt for “gradually withdraw[ing] US-led forces according to a one-year timeline.” Twenty percent favor a two-year timeline and just 9 percent favor “only reduc[ing] US-led forces as the security situation improves in Iraq.”

another graph:



notice that the Sunnis who comprise the majority, believe themselves to be underrepresented since Saddam's capture, and most strongly resent US involvement.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

btw and in case anyone cares, on Democracy Now, this morning Amy Goodman said that a current poll of Iraqis shows that the MAJORITY want the US out NOW.

Only the Politicians in Iraq want us to remain, presumably to ensure their continued power..........I dont think a "phased pullout" is the answer, and no, we cant "fix" it even if we did cause the problem in the first place by invading. Iraq is poised on the brink of civil war because the Sunnis and the Shi'ites refuse to share power. They have very different ideas about how things should be done, and these arent the types to compromise. For them, government and religion are inextricably intertwined, and the two sects are at an impasse. Anyone who thinks that we can "fix" Iraq is incredibly naive.

So, we just pull up and get out now and watch possibly hundreds of thousands die in a matter of months Or, we try in the next, say year to do what we can and hopefully save those lives. I cannot believe you are that cruel

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

So, we just pull up and get out now and watch possibly hundreds of thousands die in a matter of months Or, we try in the next, say year to do what we can and hopefully save those lives. I cannot believe you are that cruel

Jason please see the links/graphs and read the excerpts. I am not the cruel one here, these folks are doing this to themselves.........not only that, but Iraqis themselves believe our continued presence there is causing more trouble than it is solving. We arent really saving lives either......because last time I looked innocent folks on all sides of this conflict continue to DIE

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Jason please see the links/graphs and read the excerpts. I am not the cruel one here, these folks are doing this to themselves.........not only that, but Iraqis themselves believe our continued presence there is causing more trouble than it is solving. We arent really saving lives either......because last time I looked innocent folks on all sides of this conflict continue to DIE

If we leave now, it will be utter chaos by all predictions and no matter what any public poll says. But, if you think differently and that taking a little more time to at least try and do it right, so be it - also, if I am not mistaken, those graphs support some sort of stage departure over time, which is what i am talking about as opposed to everyone leaving today, which is I think what you are talking about.