Capital Punishment

[amber]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

No one can say *for sure* that there is or is not a God - however for religious or spiritual folk - that's where faith comes in...that's the most important part I think.

The Bible was actually written by MANY MANY different authors...but many of them do claim divine inspiration etc....geez...I really gotta dig out my notes from Bible as Literature....because we learned all about different theories and things on how/who it was written....Many books in fact had multiple authors and have been edited throughout the years...

IMO - the Bible is tool - not to be taken literally but to be used as a basic guide and source of inspiration - it's highly offensive to me when people use it spread hate and ignorance...obviously the message of the Bible is lost on those types of people...

Right, but many people who follow it take it literally. Actually, from the religious people i have met, it's unusual that you don't take it literally. Even people who take it literally, but do not necessarily spread hate or ignorance, really confound me. But that's really because a lot of things they believe, from the bible, really stretch my sense of logic, scientific, and historical knowledge.
The fact that it has many, many, authors, freaks me out more...but that's ok. Please do not think i am attacking your right to your faith. I am debating with it, however.... Actually, the essence of your faith is much easier for me to understand than others i have talked to.
anyways
AMber

[amber]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Well said Christy...ITA...

Also I like the quote from City of Angels which goes something like, "Some things are true whether you believe in them or not"

I like that.

Why pick God, then?

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by amber

Right, but many people who follow it take it literally. Actually, from the religious people i have met, it's unusual that you don't take it literally. Even people who take it literally, but do not necessarily spread hate or ignorance, really confound me. But that's really because a lot of things they believe, from the bible, really stretch my sense of logic, scientific, and historical knowledge.
The fact that it has many, many, authors, freaks me out more...but that's ok. Please do not think i am attacking your right to your faith. I am debating with it, however.... Actually, the essence of your faith is much easier for me to understand than others i have talked to.
anyways
AMber

Well - it is, I am coming to find out, pretty rare the view that the Bible is not to be taken literally...

My friend Frankie and I used to call ourselve Catholic rebels...we were SO against many of the Catholic Church teachings -yet involved in our individual church.

I fear I've been spoiled in that church though - the priest was also a button pusher who would always find ways to work in gay rights etc into his sermon (he really pushed equality and frowned upon people who used the Bible/religion to attack gay people) - he even let my friend start a gay/lesbian Catholic support group...a radical idea in the Catholic church- which I"ll be the first to admit is a corrupt and highly antiquated organization...

But my faith has nothing to do with people...I just do my own thing...

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by amber

Why pick God, then?

lol...because I was raised and culturally pre-conditioned to believe in God It just stuck....though - although I did go through a questioning/experimenting with other things phase....

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Okay - you're comparing religion to shooting up?

Yep. Some people (not all) get high on religion. Some people (not all) cannot get through the day or the week without going to church or relying on instructions from some religious text. I don't see much difference between Pentacostals going into their "state" of speaking in tongues and someone dropping acid. Religion can be just as addictive (and used in a similar manner) as any other drug or addictive substance/situation.

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Yes - there are religious fanatics who apparently get the message totally wrong and use religion and God to spread hate and intolerance etc...that sucks...

BUT there are amazing religious people in the world as well...ever heard of Dorothy Day?

I never made any claims that there weren't amazing religious people in the world.

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Are you also saying religion is wrong? I don't think any of us has the authority to proclaim it wrong - or right for that matter...

I think the world would be a far better place without religion. Despite any "good" that comes from it, it is the primary cause of intolerance throughout the world. I'm certainly glad that we have things like cathedrals, illuminated manuscripts, and all the art and beauty that came from religious fervor. However, I would give all that up if we could have not had the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, all of the various skirmishes during the reformation/counter-reformation, etc., etc., etc.

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

but heroin is illegal - religion is not...

In many countries religion is illegal. Heroin is also not illegal in some societies. Not that it matters- as if legality somehow endows something with legitimacy. Just because something is the law doesn't mean it's right (or wrong, for that matter).

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Religion does a lot of good for a lot of people - and like EVERYTHING ELSE there is good and bad....that's just the way it is...

One person's good is another person's bad. For example, I work at an evangelical christian-owned company. The niece of one of the employees here has a heart disease and needs a heart transplant within the next few months or she will die. The daughter of another employee learned of this situation and decided to organize her school prayer circle to pray that this sick girl would get a new heart. However, she didn't realize that she was praying that someone would die.

Some who think that they are bettering the community/world with their religiosity sometimes don't realize the darker side of their efforts. Better to just be a kind person all around without having to subscribe to some set of intolerant dogma.

[amber]

Originally Posted by The Tower

In many countries religion is illegal. Heroin is also not illegal in some societies. Not that it matters- as if legality somehow endows something with legitimacy. Just because something is the law doesn't mean it's right (or wrong, for that matter).

I totally agree that whether something is illegal or not does not endow it with legitimacy. However, Heroin is REALLY REALLY bad for your body - and religion really isn't.

[Dreammms]

Originally Posted by The Tower

One person's good is another person's bad. For example, I work at an evangelical christian-owned company. The niece of one of the employees here has a heart disease and needs a heart transplant within the next few months or she will die. The daughter of another employee learned of this situation and decided to organize her school prayer circle to pray that this sick girl would get a new heart. However, she didn't realize that she was praying that someone would die.

wow that is so sad
my little cousin nick who just turned four had a heart transplant a yr ago and so far so good
he was in the hospital dying and needed a heart badly and just in the luck of time he got one

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by amber

I totally agree that whether something is illegal or not does not endow it with legitimacy. However, Heroin is REALLY REALLY bad for your body - and religion really isn't.

Tell that to the Pentacostal snake handler that got bit by a rattlesnake and died.

Or worse- tell that to the homosexual that was so filled with self-hatred because of his religion's teachings that he killed himself. Nice, huh.

[amber]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Tell that to the Pentacostal snake handler that got bit by a rattlesnake and died.

Or worse- tell that to the homosexual that was so filled with self-hatred because of his religion's teachings that he killed himself. Nice, huh.

oh, c'mon. Heroin is ALWAYS bad for you, religion itself isn't. only when used to instill self hatred, and uh, when used with snakes...

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Tell that to the Pentacostal snake handler that got bit by a rattlesnake and died.

Or worse- tell that to the homosexual that was so filled with self-hatred because of his religion's teachings that he killed himself. Nice, huh.

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by amber

Heroin is ALWAYS bad for you, religion itself isn't.

Heroin isn't always bad for you. It's just a narcotic that, if abused, can be very detrimental to your health and well being.

I wasn't comparing Heroin to religion, I was comparing the use of and desire to use heroin to the desire to get a "fix" from religion.

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

right back at'cha.

[amber]

oh yeah?!

how bout that, huh? yeah, that's what i thought!...

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

However, Heroin is REALLY REALLY bad for your body - and religion really isn't.

Tell that to Jim Jones' followers. Or to the Heaven's Gate group.

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

Tell that to Jim Jones' followers. Or to the Heaven's Gate group.

That's not religion

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by amber

That's not religion

re·li·gion
n.

1) Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

2) A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

3) A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

4) A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

If Jim Jones ain't religion, I don't know what is....