Stevie's everywhere except in the studio.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by michelej1

In 2009 the Sunday Express interview said:

I think she had a problem with the SONGS and the MUSIC.

I don't think I've ever read that interview, so I concede that I was wrong about her feelings regarding the music on the album. Although -- and I know this is just nit-picking -- she didn't say which songs she didn't like or if it was specifically her songs she was unhappy with. She could very well have been referring to songs like "Murrow," "Come" (even Lindsey has joked about her distaste for that song) and "Red Rover."
(Which could explain why she's not singing on any of those tracks.)

Originally Posted by michelej1

We don't know what the sequencing fight was. We know what the sequence is and from the way the album starts off, it seems that Lindsey got his way, but we actually don't know. It's a conclusion we make because of the first 3 songs. No one thinks that Stevie would have chosen those to lead the album. So, that's our assumption.

Lindsey said (and I wish I could remember in which interview) that it was Stevie's desire to bury the album's heavier songs later in the album, but that he wanted them up front. So it's definitely more than an assumption.
But, yes, you're right that we don't know if any of the rest of the sequencing was born out of compromise.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I don't think I've ever read that interview, so I concede that I was wrong about her feelings regarding the music on the album. Although -- and I know this is just nit-picking -- she didn't say which songs she didn't like or if it was specifically her songs she was unhappy with. She could very well have been referring to songs like "Murrow," "Come" (even Lindsey has joked about her distaste for that song) and "Red Rover."
(Which could explain why she's not singing on any of those tracks.)

I would think that if she liked her own SYW songs, she'd have mentioned that, as she has done when she has talked about the Tusk album, by distinguishing hers and Christine's songs from Lindsey's.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I would think that if she liked her own SYW songs, she'd have mentioned that, as she has done when she has talked about the Tusk album, by distinguishing hers and Christine's songs from Lindsey's.

Very possible, but also an assumption. (Not taking you to task for that -- many of the things I've stated are assumptions, too.)

At any rate, I'm feeling like I'm just repeating myself and going in circles, so I think I'll bow out of this conversation now.

I understand the argument to the contrary, but I still feel that Stevie -- while certainly not logging as many hours as Lindsey -- spent more than enough time in the studio with Fleetwood Mac during the making of 'Say You Will' (pretty much the entirety of 2002), to be allowed an opinion on the result of her songs, the mixing, etc. Her contribution to that album wasn't just limited to two or three weeks, like it was with 'Mirage' and 'Tango.'

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Very possible, but also an assumption. (Not taking you to task for that -- many of the things I've stated are assumptions, too.)

At any rate, I'm feeling like I'm just repeating myself and going in circles, so I think I'll bow out of this conversation now.

I understand the argument to the contrary, but I still feel that Stevie -- while certainly not logging as many hours as Lindsey -- spent more than enough time in the studio with Fleetwood Mac during the making of 'Say You Will' (pretty much the entirety of 2002), to be allowed an opinion on the result of her songs, the mixing, etc. Her contribution to that album wasn't just limited to two or three weeks, like it was with 'Mirage' and 'Tango.'

I don't think anyone's saying she doesn't have say in the matter, but she also wasn't around to make sure her voice was heard. She was vacationing while Lindsey was at work. If it was important enough to her she could've been there too. It makes sense that Lindsey had more say because he's the one who was there the whole time. Not that he had more right to do it, but it's just natural that it worked out that way.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I understand the argument to the contrary, but I still feel that Stevie -- while certainly not logging as many hours as Lindsey -- spent more than enough time in the studio with Fleetwood Mac during the making of 'Say You Will' (pretty much the entirety of 2002), to be allowed an opinion on the result of her songs, the mixing, etc. Her contribution to that album wasn't just limited to two or three weeks, like it was with 'Mirage' and 'Tango.'

i know what you are saying about going in circles...

there's an interview somewhere where SN said after SYW how when her songs don't sound the way she envisioned them, it feels like they are not her songs anymore, and she's not happy about them anymore. while she may have hated Come, i don't think songs like that was what she was talking about.

"allowed an opinion"? not sure what that means? who would not allow her an opinion? someone can discount her opinion, like she discounts an opinion about proper grammar usage in the songs. but from the statements made, it seems like after a lot of arguing - where everybody's opinion was allowed and expressed - they ended up with some kind of compromise, that possibly nobody was really happy about. that's how the compromise works, in many cases.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by elle

there's an interview somewhere where SN said after SYW how when her songs don't sound the way she envisioned them, it feels like they are not her songs anymore, and she's not happy about them anymore.

I believe she says this in the Destiny Rules documentary.

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I believe she says this in the Destiny Rules documentary.

During the discussions about who was to mix the songs, I think, wasn't it? Would have to watch it again and I could very easily be wrong but that's what my memory is telling me. So again, not about Lindsey's production, necessarily.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I believe she says this in the Destiny Rules documentary.

Yes she also said she liked her demos better in 2006. Saying your demos were better than the finished song doesn't indicate approval of the album production. She was very clear that she didn't like her SYW songs. I mean, except for just before and during the tour, she's been kind of upfront about her dislike of those songs.

"Do people really want to hear a whole other solo record, when you can get one or two songs for I-Tunes? I'm thinking about a way you could just put out a few songs once in a while, maybe four songs that you loved, instead of having to figure out 16 songs, many of which you might not love."

The singer could be making a backhanded reference to Say You Will, the 2003 Fleetwood Mac album that Nicks recorded without long-time ally and confidante Christine McVie, who left the band in 1998 in favour of a quiet life in London. Originally conceived as a Lindsey Buckingham solo project, Say You Will came to resemble two separate albums awkwardly squashed together, with nine songs apiece from Buckingham and Nicks alternating in strict succession.

"I'd be totally lying if I said that record is what I wanted, because it isn't," she says. "I argued with Lindsey all the way through it, and he argued with me. It wasn't very much fun, and I wasn't that pleased with the music. I felt my demos were better, which of course is easy to say, but I did. And what can I say? It wasn't a lot of fun."

Another thing she said though is that working for 9 months on just her songs, and not Lindsey's too, began to grate on everyone, Lindsey included. That seemed weird.

From that, I gathered that, at least a few years ago, the process of the band working on songs together seemed more palatable to her. When the focus is on her songs alone, that puts her stuff under an intense scrutiny, which may not be easy.

That's why working on all the band songs together is preferable. Yes, there are lots of times when the band won't need her around, but when you can alternate things and do her stuff in the morning and Lindsey's stuff in the afternoon and Christine's stuff the next day, maybe that eases the pressure. Just as tempers rise over one song, you can move to another one and ease the tension a little.

Michele

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yes she also said she liked her demos better in 2006. Saying your demos were better than the finished song doesn't indicate approval of the album production. She was very clear that she didn't like her SYW songs. I mean, except for just before and during the tour, she's been kind of upfront about her dislike of those songs.


Another thing she said though is that working for 9 months on just her songs, and not Lindsey's too, began to grate on everyone, Lindsey included. That seemed weird.

From that, I gathered that, at least a few years ago, the process of the band working on songs together seemed more palatable to her. When the focus is on her songs alone, that puts her stuff under an intense scrutiny, which may not be easy.

That's why working on all the band songs together is preferable. Yes, there are lots of times when the band won't need her around, but when you can alternate things and do her stuff in the morning and Lindsey's stuff in the afternoon and Christine's stuff the next day, maybe that eases the pressure. Just as tempers rise over one song, you can move to another one and ease the tension a little.

Michele

That's what I mean to say in my short, slightly frustrated, posts. I don't like her accusations about not being happy with how her songs turned out on SYW. She's part of that endproduct. If she's not, she has NOTHING to say about it. She has to be there to be part of a bandproduct. Otherwise, she will never be satisfied in hindsight, simply because sales are against her (too high?) expectations. She still is happy about IYD. Even if it didn't sell what she envisioned. Why? Because she was constantly part of the process, it's her album. She just needs to be there. Christine's there, so the SYWprocess is NOT being copied. Be a band for christ sake.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I understand the argument to the contrary,

No one is making an argument to the contrary. I think Stevie DID have a say in how her songs came out. No one kept her from mixing the songs the way she wanted. There's no evidence that Lindsey kept her from having an engineer of her choosing on her songs. Lindsey did not ban Chris Lord-Alge.

If the argument is that she just got tired of fighting with Lindsey, then why doesn't she also get too tired of complaining about him too?

You know, everyone accepts that Lindsey is difficult. He even calls himself a "troublemaker" but the process of working within a band is always going to be harder than working solo. It's harder for Lindsey too. Of course, it's easier to work with Dave Stewart on a solo album, but that's because Dave knows it's not his album. If he was working with Annie, Stevie and himself on an album belonging to the three of them, I doubt Stevie would have had as much fun, fun, fun with him.

Bands require compromise. Compromise is tough and stressful and comes after toil and arguments. Stevie is not the only one who feels picked on or unheard. Yes, I can understand her not wanting to go through the process again, but I don't buy its because she was treated so very unfairly during the SYW production.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Very possible, but also an assumption. (Not taking you to task for that -- many of the things I've stated are assumptions, too.)

When she says she doesn't like the music or the songs on SYW, without a qualifier, that statement would encompass ALL of the music and songs. To say that maybe she didn't mean her songs is reading something into her statement that is not there on its face.

It's like if she said, "Oh, I don't like meat." And you came back and said, "But she could have meant she doesn't like pork." Well, I guess she could have meant she only hates pork, but that's not what she said.

Michele

[olive]

Seriously. They are all approaching their 70's and are millionaires .... What are they going to write about ... Life struggles.. New love / romance., future hopes and dreams.... (I would think by now Stevie has stopped writing about Lindsey.)

[elle]

Originally Posted by olive

Seriously. They are all approaching their 70's and are millionaires .... What are they going to write about ... Life struggles.. New love / romance., future hopes and dreams.... (I would think by now Stevie has stopped writing about Lindsey.)

so is Bruce. or Kris Kristofferson. or Richard Thompson. so was Johnny Cash. people can write and record great and interesting songs at any age.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by olive

Seriously. They are all approaching their 70's and are millionaires .... What are they going to write about ... Life struggles.. New love / romance., future hopes and dreams.... (I would think by now Stevie has stopped writing about Lindsey.)

The older you get, the more you've lost. The more endings there've been. I mean, even if there's no big tragedy in your life, the passage of time and life creates experience, longing and learning that I think anyone can write about.

Michele

[ironman_01701]

Originally Posted by michelej1

The older you get, the more you've lost. The more endings there've been. I mean, even if there's no big tragedy in your life, the passage of time and life creates experience, longing and learning that I think anyone can write about.

Michele

Why time flies when you get older

The older you are, the significant of a year becomes less.

Your memory and age is just a percentage of a year.

When you are 5 years old, one year is 20% of your memory (the span of time becomes longer and less significant for the here and now).

When your 50 years old, one year is 2% of your memory (the span of time becomes shorter and more significant for the here and now).

When your 65 years old, one year is 1.53% of your memory (the span of time becomes even shorter and more significant for the here and now).

Age, if explained in terms of percentage of your memory of one year of time becomes less significant. That's why time flies when you get older.