Meat-Eating Debate (Relocated Thread)

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Yes and actually pigs are very much like dogs. They can be taught to sit on command, etc and love a good ear scratch.

The fact that they are known to sing to their babies while nursing them really gets to me.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

I get it. I don't blame other cultures for eating animals as long as they are not endangered.

Lots of people do though. In Australia, where I live, whaling is a big issue, especially because Japan keeps whaling in our Antarctic waters. People all over the country get upset about whaling and then tuck into a nice piece of steak, lamb, etc.

A few years back there was an outcry when our then prime minister referred to Deng Xiaoping as a "three puppy a day man" which he maintained was a compliment not an insult.

Over here in Western Australia there has recently been a huge outcry because a butcher has started selling horse meat which hasn't been available here before. He has even had death threats, etc.

My point is, unless you are a vegetarian, don't get worked up about it!

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by jannieC

The fact that they are known to sing to their babies while nursing them really gets to me.

But bacon is the best tasting thing in the world!!!


I really eat SO little meat. Seriously, in the past year, I've probably had 5-6 lbs of bacon, and a couple of lbs of ground beef, and that's pretty much it. Oh, and I went out with friends, for steak, twice(I get the smallest, 6 oz one, that they have).

And while I DO feel better now, with only a taste of meat, about 3 times a week, I will always want meat. Although I don't crave red meat, nearly as much as I used to. But I NEED chicken and fish. Mmm, love me some fish!

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by jannieC

I agree with everything you say. I also think most people would be better off doing lots of things. That doesn't mean that everyone has it in their heart to care.

That four-letter word "care" is what it's all about. About everything in life. People "care" only as long as it doesn't inconvenience them or their families.

I accidentally ate a bite of regular chicken salad last month and seriously almost vomited. I had no idea that chicken tasted so, chicken-ey!

I used to buy mah-po tofu, a spicy concoction, from this place in Chinatown. The first couple of times I had it, I noticed that my stomach couldn't handle it very well (I won't get graphic). I assumed it was just "one of those things." I didn't automatically draw any correlation. But the next time I had it, there was a bone in it, which meant that they must have flavored it with something meaty. And that totally explained my stomach issues; my body just can't handle animal flesh anymore! I think that is a wonderful thing, to be quite honest.

In response to your first post (rant ), I hope you don't think I am one of those douches. I shop at Earth Fair because it's the only place I can find the types of non-meat foods I love. They also sell "organic" meat which bugs me, because I think it's bull476t too. Why does Earth Fair HAVE to sell meat products? Because they probably wouldn't survive without it. The old me could have written your rant. I think I have gotten old and tired.

Oh, no! I should have explained myself better. By "limousine liberal douche," I was referring to those (typically upscale) people who think they can simply spend their way into being environmentally conscious- by shopping at Whole Foods, buying organic produce, buying farm-raised meat, etc. And they think they are leading by example when 90% of the world can't afford to do all of this. They make token gestures like wearing bamboo T-shirts and recycling soda cans and they think they're going to save the planet; meanwhile, they still eat meat, still consume imported products, still drive SUVs, etc. I'm not saying that everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a douche. I'm just saying that people should not delude themselves into thinking they're making a positive choice for their bodies or the environment just by shopping there. You shouldn't have to be rich to be "green."

It's been over 20 years for me, as well, and I have never looked back. I lost a lot of weight initially, most likely from the shock of eliminating all of that animal fat and grease. Ah, but have since gained it all back, and then some. Don't need meat to be chubby.

I lost a lot of weight too, and this was before I did any research about diet and nutrition. So my first couple of months consisted of assaulting my body with donuts, pizza, tater tots and pasta. And even then, the weight came off rapidly- like 20 pounds almost immediately (I wasn't exactly heavy to begin with). But I gained it all back and then some once I made the resolve to work out regularly-so it was pretty much all muscle. I have pretty much stayed within a 10-pound range ever since. Just stay away from any white starches and you're weight will be totally manageable.

Anyway, I know it's hard to be veg when all of the people around you are not. I have it easy because I don't have to cook/shop for anyone. I assume you probably have to "hold your nose" deal with meat for your family? If so, my condolences!

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

But bacon is the best tasting thing in the world!!!


I really eat SO little meat. Seriously, in the past year, I've probably had 5-6 lbs of bacon, and a couple of lbs of ground beef, and that's pretty much it. Oh, and I went out with friends, for steak, twice(I get the smallest, 6 oz one, that they have).

And while I DO feel better now, with only a taste of meat, about 3 times a week, I will always want meat. Although I don't crave red meat, nearly as much as I used to. But I NEED chicken and fish. Mmm, love me some fish!

Watching shows like Top Chef, I noticed that the common theme of putting just a sprinkling of bacon in everything, including desserts! I guess that's how you win; everyone loves the taste.

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Anyway, I know it's hard to be veg when all of the people around you are not. I have it easy because I don't have to cook/shop for anyone. I assume you probably have to "hold your nose" deal with meat for your family? If so, my condolences!

No, my husband stopped eating meat several years ago. My mom doesn't cook much anymore and she has her own apartment (in the house) so if she cooks meat I only vaguely smell it. I don't buy it or cook it. My mother in law (who we eat a big Sunday meal with each week) almost always fixes non meat meals when we're there. I have to admit that I do eat some fish, so I am not a "true" vegetarian. But I do the best I can.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by jannieC

No, my husband stopped eating meat several years ago. My mom doesn't cook much anymore and she has her own apartment (in the house) so if she cooks meat I only vaguely smell it. I don't buy it or cook it. My mother in law (who we eat a big Sunday meal with each week) almost always fixes non meat meals when we're there. I have to admit that I do eat some fish, so I am not a "true" vegetarian. But I do the best I can.

Well, then I will refrain from sending you articles about mercury levels in fish. I'm glad everyone is along for the ride; I just hope your kid does not get peer pressure, or worse yet, get tsk tsk'd by other disapproving mothers. I'll bet there are certain areas of the country where "forcing" a vegetarian diet on your child is considered child abuse.

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Well, then I will refrain from sending you articles about mercury levels in fish. I'm glad everyone is along for the ride; I just hope your kid does not get peer pressure, or worse yet, get tsk tsk'd by other disapproving mothers. I'll bet there are certain areas of the country where "forcing" a vegetarian diet on your child is considered child abuse.

Oh, I hear, "give the kid a chicken nugget...it won't kill her!" from time to time.

It's funny, my mother said I always struggled with eating meat as a kid. My hamburgers had to be hockey pucks and she would always have to cut the chicken off the bone and hide it from me before I ate.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by jannieC

Oh, I hear, "give the kid a chicken nugget...it won't kill her!" from time to time.

It's funny, my mother said I always struggled with eating meat as a kid. My hamburgers had to be hockey pucks and she would always have to cut the chicken off the bone and hide it from me before I ate.

So I guess she wanted you to think chicken grew on trees.

Being "fresh off the boat," my parents immediately hit the ground running with American food. The earliest memories of my childhood are about eating at KFC every Sunday, year after year, for years! And there was no such thing as too much meat; I literally had it three times a day, every day of the week. And huge quantities of it. My mother would make hamburger patties that were 2 inches thick and 6 inches in diameter and pack them in my lunchbag for school; even the other kids thought it was nasty. My parents were also big membership warehouse fiends (even before Costco), so they would load up on industrial size cases of hot dogs, salami, bologna, ham... and after school I would literally take a package of sliced ham and eat it right out of the cellophane while I was watching TV. In a way, I think I've already eaten enough meat for a lifetime. So when I finally got off the meat wagon (or on it?), my body was quite shocked... in a good way. It also forced my mother to start learning how to cook without meat, and today my parents are pretty much vegetarian at home. I think it annoys my father a bit, but even he acknowledges that he feels a bit lighter on his feet after spending several days at my meat-free house.

[markolas]

I've attempted vegetarianism once or twice, and never lasted a day. Do you just get used to being hungry all the time? I can't understand these people who have a cup of yogurt for breakfast, a salad for lunch, and some pasta & beans for dinner. If that was my food intake for the day, I'd be ready to kill somebody.

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

So I guess she wanted you to think chicken grew on trees.

Being "fresh off the boat," my parents immediately hit the ground running with American food. The earliest memories of my childhood are about eating at KFC every Sunday, year after year, for years! And there was no such thing as too much meat; I literally had it three times a day, every day of the week. And huge quantities of it. My mother would make hamburger patties that were 2 inches thick and 6 inches in diameter and pack them in my lunchbag for school; even the other kids thought it was nasty. My parents were also big membership warehouse fiends (even before Costco), so they would load up on industrial size cases of hot dogs, salami, bologna, ham... and after school I would literally take a package of sliced ham and eat it right out of the cellophane while I was watching TV. In a way, I think I've already eaten enough meat for a lifetime. So when I finally got off the meat wagon (or on it?), my body was quite shocked... in a good way. It also forced my mother to start learning how to cook without meat, and today my parents are pretty much vegetarian at home. I think it annoys my father a bit, but even he acknowledges that he feels a bit lighter on his feet after spending several days at my meat-free house.

I may have you beat. We had a "meat man" that would come to the house and sell meat to my mother. She would have her order ready and he would fill up our meat freezer in the basement. I remember that I loved bacon. And actually pork chops, too. I didn't give up eating meat because I hated the taste, that's for sure.

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by markolas

I've attempted vegetarianism once or twice, and never lasted a day. Do you just get used to being hungry all the time? I can't understand these people who have a cup of yogurt for breakfast, a salad for lunch, and some pasta & beans for dinner. If that was my food intake for the day, I'd be ready to kill somebody.

Me too. And believe me, I am rarely hungry.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by markolas

I've attempted vegetarianism once or twice, and never lasted a day. Do you just get used to being hungry all the time? I can't understand these people who have a cup of yogurt for breakfast, a salad for lunch, and some pasta & beans for dinner. If that was my food intake for the day, I'd be ready to kill somebody.

That's the 'Skinny Manhattan Bitch' diet. I hate to stereotype, but I see them shopping at the market across the street all the time: tall, skinny, very well put together, probably working in fashion, P.R. or media, 30-something. Without fail, in their shopping cart they have the following items: fat free or Greek yogurt, mini-Baby-bel cheese, coffee, bottled water and some kind of pre-packaged little meal for the editrix-in-training. There's no nutrition or fiber in any of this stuff. Who knows... maybe they know something.

If you are hungry all the time, you don't know what you're doing. I would just advise doing some research before you ever decide to try it again. I don't think of vegetarianism as "can't eat" as much as it makes me consider all of the things that I "can eat" that I've never tried before. That being said, admittedly you will probably snack more often than you are used to. When I don't have a structured day, I tend to just eat whatever/whenever I feel like it; I generally don't like defined meal periods. Also, you're not going to survive on salads three times a day. There are tons of hearty, filling rich options as well. Once you're used to it, it take no thought or effort at all.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by jannieC

I may have you beat. We had a "meat man" that would come to the house and sell meat to my mother. She would have her order ready and he would fill up our meat freezer in the basement. I remember that I loved bacon. And actually pork chops, too. I didn't give up eating meat because I hated the taste, that's for sure.

Then why did you give it up? I did it because I was a bored college student on summer break, and I wanted to try it as an experiment. It happened very spontaneously/organically; it's not like I sat down one night and had my "final supper." One morning I woke up and just decided to go with it; I never looked back.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by markolas

I've attempted vegetarianism once or twice, and never lasted a day. Do you just get used to being hungry all the time? I can't understand these people who have a cup of yogurt for breakfast, a salad for lunch, and some pasta & beans for dinner. If that was my food intake for the day, I'd be ready to kill somebody.

Well I'm a 245lb vegetarian. The general manager said to me the other day "aren't vegetarians supposed to be pale and skinny?"

I have a vegetarian friend that I used to work with when I was a meat eater. I used to tell her that I liked eating meat too much to ever become a vegetarian. She used to rant at me about rennet all the time whenever I would eat cheese and I would make fun of her about it.

Then one day my wife and I sat down and had a serious discussion, decided to stop eating meat and that was over two years ago.

When I reconnected with the friend a year or so back, she almost died of shock when I told her I had stopped eating meat.

There is a huge variety of food available to the vegetarian. I hate salad too though don't worry, even though my wife does try to get me to eat it during summer.