I'm sorry but I think Lindsey is a little overrated

[David]

Originally posted by LindseyRocks
You know, I've listened to a lot of you harsh on Lindsey, and it just blows me away [snip]

Why get so worked up over it all? The "angry young man" stance & the frustration with others that makes you hurl gross insults don't add anything to the debate that isn't just cruel & sordid. I thought Buckingham's fans were above that.

[strandinthewind]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarneVaca
What the Big Love episode shows is that Lindsey was willing to give Fleetwood Mac his best songs while Stevie was giving the band crappy leftovers -- When I See You Again, Welcome to the Room, Sara. Obviously she had gotten so much in the habit of giving leftovers to the band that even she admits she had to go write new songs for SYW after listening to the stuff.

As I have said before and will continue to say and believe, SN had every reason to believe FM was broken up after Mirage; so saying she used all of her good stuff on WH and RAL only to leave the "crappy leftovers" for TITN is in my opinion not fair to her. Also, LB apparently was not very nice to her when she was around for the recording of TITN and then he pulled a spoiled brat move of "I'm not happy, I'm leaving" right before a tour. Having said all of that, I was not there. So, I really have no idea what went on. For all we know, she could have given many songs to FM and they chose those three. Certainly outtakes exist of other songs. So, FM chose those three songs. Moreover, she was screwed up at the time, so I cut her even more of a break if the songs were not that great even though I like them, esp. Seven Wonders.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarneVaca
Besides, has Stevie never been bitter? Just look at her attitude right before the album was released. While Lindsey was coming across as the at-peace, harmonious guy, she kept sulking. And, frankly, what this whole SYW release has shown is something I suspected for a long time: While neither of them is perfect, Lindsey is not only the better musician by far and the better songwriter, he is also the better person[/i].

Even Stevie says she is not a great musician - I do not think anyone is arguing that.

Moreover, I do not buy that LB came across at all as "the at-peace, harmonious guy, she kept sulking" statement. First of all, we were not there - so everything we say is speculation and on the interviews. In those interviews, LB has said SN was not happy about the sequencing of the songs and that SN has never said thank you for your help on my songs, etc. Yet, I have seen interviews where SN says LB did a good job, etc. Moreover, it just seems to me every time SN says something that seemingly detracts from the "LB's word should be law" principal that apparently, at least to me, is going on she gets slammed as being stubborn, difficult, etc. Yet, LB appears to be able to say whatever he wants and not receive the same treatment and be perceived as a victim. I think SN is the far better person in the context of this record for even agreeing to make this record and to at the same time "throw LB a bone," which he apparently needed to help get his solo stuff released by the record company, which was apparently not going to happen unless she came on board with FM. I do not think from a solely commercial point of view that Warner/Reprise would released this record without either SN or CM being on board because right or wrong and not in anyway saying they are not good, LB's songs historically do not sell well which is just about all the label cares about. Again right or wrong, that is just the way it is and LB obviously cares about this and thinks this way otherwise he would not have bent under Warner/Reprise's pressure and released his stuff over the net or bought out his contract with Warner/Reprise (if he indeed has one) and/or found another label. Finally, I think if you look at the imperfect actions of these two in the past (and there are many public ones on both sides), LB has acted more like the spoiled brat in my opinion. Again, he left before a worldwide tour in 1987 that he had committed to doing because he "was not happy." That could be the largest temper tantrum I have ever seen. I mean when you are an adult and have people's jobs (roadies, secretaries, executives, etc.) depending on you and what you have committed to do and then you say, I just can't do what I am committed to do because I do not feel like it, you are acting like a spoiled brat and welcome any hard feelings thrown your way. Believe me, there are days when I cannot stand to go to work and be around some of the people in my office, but, as an adult who has committed to doing this job, I go because if I do not people that depend on my work will be punished for my capriciousness. I notice that SN is still on board even though she allegedly was so unhappy with this record.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by blinker12
Oh, come on,Hasn't it occurred to you that Lindsey was less upset than Stevie about the outcome because he won the argument? He got his way: the edgy, political stuff opened the album, just like he wanted. I suspect if Stevie had won, he would have been as sulky as she was.

No, he would have just thrown a temper tantrum a la TITN and left again

[CarneVaca]

Strand, methinks you're trying to rewrite history here.

--Lindsey did not commit to going on the road for Tango. He agreed to do the album and shelve his solo project because Mick needed money. When they pressured him to tour, he just didn't want to because there was too much acrimony in the band.

--I've read the same articles you have, I'm sure. But look at Lindsey's demeanor vs. Stevie's in the interviews just before SYW was released. The words they used and my own perception of their attitudes tells me Stevie was pissed and Lindsey was trying to make the best of a tense situation. If you want to interpret her perma-scowl and his affable attitude in a way that somehow means she being the bigger person in this situation, by all means. And let's not forget she was bitching about the track sequence while sitting her ass in Hawaii while Lindsey was still slaving away in the studio.

--Lindsey would have released GOS one way or the other if he had wanted to. In one of the more recent interviews, he said the new guard at Warners liked his stuff but it had become a moot point because the Fleetwood Mac project was well underway. You imply that somehow Stevie saved him from oblivion by agreeing to do SYW. How silly. She would have never been in Fleetwood Mac without him. She would have been a footnote in the history of pop music.

As for everyone else who is reacting to my "Lindsey is the better person" comment, I stand by that. Disagree all you want, but that's how I feel.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And let's not forget she was bitching about the track sequence while sitting her ass in Hawaii while Lindsey was still slaving away in the studio.

LOL - do you really think LB would have let SN do that (mix and sequence the record)!!!! I think he sent her to Hawaii to get rid of her

I also think Mick was in Hawaii, which sort of surprises me because he comes across as a person reluctant to give up control.

Interestingly, we are looking at this from a hindsight perspective. It could very well be that when SN (and possibly others) left for Hawaii the double record deal was still on and the sequencing for that had already been agreed to and that is what LB was working on. Then, while they are in Hawaii, the double CD deal is nixed ( ) and a new sequence needs to be determined. Oh to have been a fly on the wall so we could know the true story!!!!!

Also, I seem to remember LB initally saying he would tour for TITN and then backing out right before the tour started. I support this by referring interviews then and now that indicate some if not all of the dates had already been booked for the tour. However, even if he did not formally commit, it was still a lousy and immature thing to do as touring certainly was implied when they cut a new record, esp. if the tour had already been booked. Shame on him for that.

Also, I totally think that if SN had not come on board, the executives at Warner/Reprise and the general public would have not given this CD the attention it got. So, in that aspect, SN did save LB. Again, right or wrong, she sells, he does not and record companies do not throw money at what does not sell. I go back to my original thought which was if LB wanted to release these songs when the original GOS was completed he could have even if it meant going to another label. But, he did not. Instead, he waited years for SN to come in on this and now it is selling with heavy promotion from the label. Why, because she sells.

Also, I think a large part of why she is scowling is because her frined had died of an overdose and she had been to the funeral that day. I think the sequencing stuff went down months before that.

Finally, I think it is unfair to look at it solely from the context of LB made sure SN was in FM. That certainly is true, but without SN can you really say LB or FM would ever have gotten the attention they got. I cannot. Also, remember Stevie had a solo record contract prior to joining FM; her parents bought her out of it. I do not remember with whom and it may have been prior to Buckingham Nicks. So, I think this shows she was on her way, but went with LB instead.

[DrummerDeanna]

UGh....I hate when people say certain artists are under or over rated....it's SO subjective....but I guess that the nature of the opinion lol....because I'm gonna be a hypocrite and say that I do feel that Lindsey is underrated....at least in the music industry as a whole....he's truly talented...and I do think his ideas and things are quite innovative and interesting...and brilliant....but I also thing the music industry seems to be going south..."as we celebrate mediocrity"-Tom Petty.....and uh oh...yeah...I've lost my train of thought....so anyway....I love the whole band, I don't think any of them are overrated....not even Mick....he IS a good drummer....and he just rocks out!

[Les]

Again, he left before a worldwide tour in 1987 that he had committed to doing because he "was not happy." That could be the largest temper tantrum I have ever seen. I mean when you are an adult and have people's jobs (roadies, secretaries, executives, etc.) depending on you and what you have committed to do and then you say, I just can't do what I am committed to do because I do not feel like it, you are acting like a spoiled brat and welcome any hard feelings thrown your way.

Actually, I believe the words he used were "physical and emotional survival move." That says he was a lot more than simply "not happy." He's been quoted as saying that he even went to see a psychotherapist at the time that the band was trying to get him to tour for Tango because he was so torn up about what decision he should make.

You're ready to cut Stevie slack for her periods in the past when she was not at her best. Maybe some slack could be cut for Lindsey as well? You're ready to accept that she's had vulnerable moments in the past when she needed some kind of additional support from her bandmates and didn't get it. Maybe you can see where Lindsey needed that as well, and didn't get it? In more recent years, even Mick has begun to understand Lindsey's departure as far more than wanting to be solo, but something along the lines of Lindsey having reached a burnout point from which he could not return without time away from the band. Mick has even begun to show a willingness in recent years to accept some responsibility for Lindsey having reached that point because of his own behavior back then.

Was it irresponsible for Lindsey not to do the tour? I don't know what that means, actually. How do you balance professional goals of your mates with your personal health? He shouldered immense responsibility for getting the album made. There would have been no reason to tour in the first place if the album never came to be. It gave the band a huge success and a position of power to begin the tour. To Lindsey's way of thinking, he pulled out at a time where Rick Vito and Billy Burnette could jump into the live shows to support a popular album, and the new configuration could get accustomed to each other so that they'd be a "real band" by the time that incarnation got around to going back into the studio. He saw it as a good place to jump off, for the band, and to save himself. Was he wrong?

To reduce Lindsey's departure in 1987 to nothing more than a mere temper tantrum is, I think, inaccurate and somewhat insensitive to Lindsey's physical, emotional and mental health. Just my opinion.

As for overrated and underrated...too much credit, not enough credit.... You'll find DJs, writers, fans throughout the years who will say, "well, so-and-so may have contributed a lot, but so-and-so IS Fleetwood Mac." Fill in the name of Stevie, Christine, Lindsey, Peter, etc., because it's been said about all of them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[gypsysara]

While its interesting to read all of these posts...

I have to say, Im not a huge Lindsey fan. However, he turned my head on this album. I *love* Miranda, Red Rover, WTWCT, Steal Your Heart Away and even Peacekeeper is growing. Of course, where Come would appeal to some - it turns me way off. But, to each his own.

Opinions vary, but listening to them all and keeping an open mind is *always* good!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by thewhitewingedd
Wait a minuten....Wasn't that you who was at that Softball game for the washed up rock stars????You were bringing Lindsey some water...

Yeah, you'd be a lot funnier if you could spell a word or two. What the hell are you even talking about?

And you know for a fact that Lindsey hit anybody? If I recall correctly, Stevie in recent years has admitted that she jumped on him. I don't know about you, but if someone goes for my throat, I might just hit back. And this is coming from a pacifist.

Strand, your characterization of what went on at the time of Lindsey's departure in 1987 is incredibly biased, and therefore not worth debating anymore. Suffice it to say that Lindsey has NEVER hit the creative low points that Stevie has. As much as I would have liked him to release more albums, if he'd released crap like Other Side of the Mirror and Street Angel, I would have stopped paying attention to him. As I did to her.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Les
To reduce Lindsey's departure in 1987 to nothing more than a mere temper tantrum is, I think, inaccurate and somewhat insensitive to Lindsey's physical, emotional and mental health. Just my opinion.

Touche' but I still think he should have stuck it out for the tour because I think that touring was implied if not agreed to from the beginning. But, that as they say is history!!!!

[gypsysara]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And you know for a fact that Lindsey hit anybody? If I recall correctly, Stevie in recent years has admitted that she jumped on him.

I believe I read the same, that Lindsey had hit Stevie during the 1987 World Tour fallout. I think it was in a book. So while perhaps the opinion may have been wrong - I think maybe Strand was going off of what they knew (regardless if its right or wrong). Do you have to be so rude? i.e. the speylling commeynt.

[gypsysara]

Hey no harm, no foul to me. Just hope maybe Carne was kidding... it looked kinda rude, thats all.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by gypsysara
I believe I read the same, that Lindsey had hit Stevie during the 1987 World Tour fallout. I think it was in a book. So while perhaps the opinion may have been wrong - I think maybe Strand was going off of what they knew (regardless if its right or wrong). Do you have to be so rude? i.e. the speylling commeynt.

Gypsy, even Mick Fleetwood, who wrote the book to which you're referring, has disowned a lot of the stuff he wrote. He purposely made the book inflammatory with an eye to making sales. Again, Stevie has said in recent years that she attacked Lindsey. If he hit her, which would be wrong without a doubt, it appears that he was provoked. Hitting people is not cool. But that applies to both, don't you think?

And to answer your question, no, I don't have to be rude. But just how do you handle nonsensical statements about feeding water to rock stars in events that never took place?

Whitewingedd, I'm really not concerned about whether what I posted hurt your feelings. You keep trying to be funny, but it ain't working.

[FiercestCalmSea]

Yeah, we can do that "everybody has thier own opinion" thing, but quite frankly, Craig, you're a moron, and you have no idea what you're talking about.

Uh,no LindseyRocks,YOU are the moron for not being able to handle an opinion you don't agree with.Grow up or walk your @ss back to Preschool.

[Cour]

As for the dispute between the two about the sequencing of SYW: Hasn't it occurred to you that Lindsey was less upset than Stevie about the outcome because he won the argument? He got his way: the edgy, political stuff opened the album, just like he wanted. I suspect if Stevie had won, he would have been as sulky as she was.

Who said he won?

Who said he wanted "edgy political stuff" opening the album? WTWCT is about the music business and the track sequencing was put to bed almost 3 months ago.

How do you know what sequencing Stevie wanted and what compromises were made?

Why is anyone attributing Stevie's somber mood to her being upset over the sequencing of the album? These people have lives outside of FM and their careers and IF there is something going on with Stevie, chances are more likely that it is something we don't know about. We DON'T know everything about their lives or what happens within FM no matter how many articles or interviews we see.