Civil rights and gay pride parade

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=57022

Here's a story about firemen who were ordered to participate in a pride parade. Given the position that many of you took on the issue about whether or not doctors should be allowed to refuse certain types of care if it violated their conscience, do you agree with the firemen here, or do you think they should just shut up about it, and why? I'm really curious here. To me, it appears to be the same issue of personal freedom, what do the rest of you think?

They should be ordered regardless of their opinion. I thought the idea behind a fireman is to save lives. That's their job. If they don't like saving lives, time for a career change.

For example, what right would a fireman have if they were rescuing a person from a burning building and realized the person was gay or black or (insert whatver)? Do they have the right to say, "well I don't believe in gays, so go find your own way out." I don't think so.

Serve and protect everybody and keep your judgements at home.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by GoldDustOrphan

Native Americans or athiests might find Thanksgiving offensive to their beliefs or heritage. Here in South Boston, our St. Patrick's Day parade (which is always a blast in my book) is a constant source of public scrutiny because of the extraordinary amount public drinking, arrests for fighting, and reports of racist incidents.

here in Ok-La-Ho-Ma (The correct pronunciation for those who reside in that state south of the Red River ) you don't or WON'T be seeing ANY parades in celebration for Thanksgiving, nor that other 'holiday' being celebrated next Monday - "Columbus Day" ...

The chances of that EVER happening are the same as OU fans cheering for UT this Saturday in Dallas or Fleetwood Mac's next release being a tribute to the Norwegian Black Metal bands.


There are 'gay pride' and 'civil rights' parades however which are always very peaceful.


Brian "The Irish/Cherokee/Scottish Ledgie...Damn, my genetics what must make me be a pissed off person...Potatoes, Tee-pee's and kilts " j.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Do they have the right to say, "well I don't believe in gays, so go find your own way out." I don't think so.

Well, I think that this person needs to look around and start believing, I mean it is one thing to not agree, but to not believe they exist, that's just outragous.

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

But really, You don't think that they could have found other people to assign, people who aren't against it? Not nesicarly supporters, but someone who won't sue you because of it. Besides, whether or not it's right, why would it be an issue? I wouldn't assume that any fireman working one of the parades was automatically gay. But that's just me.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by Richard B

They should be ordered regardless of their opinion. I thought the idea behind a fireman is to save lives. That's their job. If they don't like saving lives, time for a career change.

For example, what right would a fireman have if they were rescuing a person from a burning building and realized the person was gay or black or (insert whatver)? Do they have the right to say, "well I don't believe in gays, so go find your own way out." I don't think so.

Serve and protect everybody and keep your judgements at home.

"Serve and protect everybody and keep your judgements at home." Exactly, so why does the fire chief have the right to order them to have a certain value system? Why not leave that at home?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by GoldDustOrphan

. . . Here in South Boston, our St. Patrick's Day parade (which is always a blast in my book) is a constant source of public scrutiny because of the extraordinary amount public drinking, arrests for fighting, and reports of racist incidents.

Ahem - it is a blatantly false rumour that I was there

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by GoS

Well, I think that this person needs to look around and start believing, I mean it is one thing to not agree, but to not believe they exist, that's just outragous.

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

But really, You don't think that they could have found other people to assign, people who aren't against it? Not nesicarly supporters, but someone who won't sue you because of it. Besides, whether or not it's right, why would it be an issue? I wouldn't assume that any fireman working one of the parades was automatically gay. But that's just me.

I won't appear in any parade that glorifies public sexuality, period. If I am ordered to and refuse and am ultimately fired, you bet I'll sue. I have a right to refuse to do things outside the scope of my job and I will not tolerate someone else telling me what sort of values system I am to have. Why isn't anyone here concerned that the fireman have a right to not be asked to do things outside of fighting fires? Whether or not they save people is NOT the issue, whether the fire chief has a right to force her value system on someone else is clearly the issue. They sued over being forced to attend and participate in a parade that violated their civil rights. They were not asking to leave people in burning buildings. Where did you even come up with that? That is such a bigoted thing to say. It shows a certain phobia of religious people and a glaring prejudice and bigotry that assumes that all religious people want to kill gays, when all they asked for was to have the right to not be forced into participating in it.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

"Serve and protect everybody and keep your judgements at home." Exactly, so why does the fire chief have the right to order them to have a certain value system? Why not leave that at home?

The fire chief is not saying "Go be gay." Nor is he saying "support gays." He is saying make sure that none of the floats fall, catch fire and destroy the entire town (or whatever he says when he sends someone to a parade). So he should leave their duties at home? Because to me that is what is sounded like you said.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by GoS

The fire chief is not saying "Go be gay." Nor is he saying "support gays." He is saying make sure that none of the floats fall, catch fire and destroy the entire town (or whatever he says when he sends someone to a parade). So he should leave their duties at home? Because to me that is what is sounded like you said.

It was a she and the firefighters were asked to be in the parade, not stand guard.

The LA Times says, "They say they were forced to drive their firetruck in the parade and were subjected to lewd comments." Also, "The four say they were ordered to drive their firetruck in the three-hour parade even though firefighters at previous parades had been subjected to catcalls and sexually suggestive comments by parade watchers", as well as, "Along with the sexual harassment contention, the lawsuit also alleges that the gay pride parade should be seen as a political event, "designed to advocate for the civil rights of homosexuals, and in recent years to promote the controversial concept of gay marriage." By forcing the firefighters to participate in the parade, the suit contends, the city was improperly recruiting them to support a political cause." Basically, it would be tantamount to you being asked to march in a McCain parade.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

It was a she and the firefighters were asked to be in the parade, not stand guard.

The LA Times says, "They say they were forced to drive their firetruck in the parade and were subjected to lewd comments." Also, "The four say they were ordered to drive their firetruck in the three-hour parade even though firefighters at previous parades had been subjected to catcalls and sexually suggestive comments by parade watchers", as well as, "Along with the sexual harassment contention, the lawsuit also alleges that the gay pride parade should be seen as a political event, "designed to advocate for the civil rights of homosexuals, and in recent years to promote the controversial concept of gay marriage." By forcing the firefighters to participate in the parade, the suit contends, the city was improperly recruiting them to support a political cause." Basically, it would be tantamount to you being asked to march in a McCain parade.

Oh, I'm sorry. Maybe I should have read the article!

Wait, why was a fire truck needed in the parade then?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by GoS

. . . Wait, why was a fire truck needed in the parade then?

Well, they are flaming

[GoldDustOrphan]

Why isn't anyone here concerned that the fireman have a right to not be asked to do things outside of fighting fires?

In my first post, I agreed with you. I don't not believe that city employees should be asked/required to appear in any kind of parade.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by GoS

Oh, I'm sorry. Maybe I should have read the article!

Wait, why was a fire truck needed in the parade then?

I'm not so sure it was. The police have had a huge problem with this too. I've been hearing for years that a lot of them also have religious objections to marching, but have to under orders from the police chief. I just see it as a civil rights issue, the gay part is a side-show. To me the issue is whether or not an employer has the right to order someone to participate in something they believe is wrong. My argument is more libertarian in that the answer would be no. We don't order pacifist soldiers to kill people, they are reassigned. I'm not sure why this is different.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

I'm not so sure it was. The police have had a huge problem with this too. I've been hearing for years that a lot of them also have religious objections to marching, but have to under orders from the police chief. I just see it as a civil rights issue, the gay part is a side-show. To me the issue is whether or not an employer has the right to order someone to participate in something they believe is wrong. My argument is more libertarian in that the answer would be no. We don't order pacifist soldiers to kill people, they are reassigned. I'm not sure why this is different.

Well it is different in some people's eyes. I guess the argument would go something like "You can't have a member of a combat unit that won't kill, that could be dangerous." But I see it as a gross double standard.

Well, they are flaming

Ha!

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

"Serve and protect everybody and keep your judgements at home." Exactly, so why does the fire chief have the right to order them to have a certain value system? Why not leave that at home?

I agree. He has no right. It makes an issue of what should be a non-issue.
For living in 2008, we sure are extraordinarily conservative.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by Richard B

I agree. He has no right. It makes an issue of what should be a non-issue.
For living in 2008, we sure are extraordinarily conservative.

That and hyper-sensitive. Half of the things the media attacks for racism and whatnot, I don't even find a problem with. If some one says that they hate all people from ____, then yeah, that's racist. But if the Spanish basketball team wants to go hold their eyes and look Chinese, that's their problem. But hey, What's the World Coming to?