Rosie's ching-chong comments

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Just so you know, Im not condoning concentration camps. I never said that in any post. When Chris asked me if I supported locking up Muslims in camps, I responded by saying that the issue of my feelings for the Muslims (specifically the terrorists by the way) is the one area where I deviate from my normal Liberal leanings. I categorically hate them.
That said, however, I do NOT condone any sort of forced lockup, and Im not happy about the treatment of prisoners at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib (sp?).

oh and Jason? Tim McVeigh was KILLED for his crimes. Much different than a concentration camp............you're comparing apples and oranges again.

Okay that really is racist and offensive. I have had friends who are Muslim and I just don't get how you can paint them all with such a broad brush. It's the same attitude, albeit reversed, that is driving them to come after us. A blind hatred.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Okay that really is racist and offensive. I have had friends who are Muslim and I just don't get how you can paint them all with such a broad brush. It's the same attitude, albeit reversed, that is driving them to come after us. A blind hatred.

please note:

I responded by saying that the issue of my feelings for the Muslims (specifically the terrorists by the way) is the one area where I deviate from my normal Liberal leanings

I am speaking of the terrorists here. If you dont understand how I can hate the terrorists after 9/11 then I dont know what more to say.......what I said regarding the Moderates was that I felt they could/should do more to control the radical element in their religion. Carrie had responded by saying that we are all responsible for our own actions and that it was not fair to hold a group responsible for the actions of a few (or some). I told her I saw her point.

I will add this however: when it is common knowledge that money is consistently being funneled to these extremists to continue to wreak their havoc I have to wonder if these so-called extremists arent actually representing the secret feelings/desires of the group as a whole. If not, then why arent more moderates coming forward and denouncing this crap? Why arent the money sources being dried up? why arent more terrorist hiding places and training camps being exposed? Why are Madrassas always full to the brim? Hatred of the West is rampant in that part of the world and you cant say that my recent change of heart since 9/11 is the cause. As I said before, I had a live and let live attitude until then, and I firmly believe that only the Muslims can bring about the needed changes in this situation.
Its a sure bet these radicals wont listen to anything the West has to say.....

[skcin]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I am speaking of the terrorists here. If you dont understand how I can hate the terrorists after 9/11 then I dont know what more to say.......

I responded by saying that the issue of my feelings for the Muslims (specifically the terrorists by the way) is the one area where I deviate from my normal Liberal leanings. I categorically hate them.

I'm reading your above quote again, and I want to know if you hate all Muslims, or just the terrorists who are Muslim? Or do you assume that all Muslims might be terrorists?

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by skcin

I'm reading your above quote again, and I want to know if you hate all Muslims, or just the terrorists who are Muslim? Or do you assume that all Muslims might be terrorists?

To be clear: My hatred is reserved for the terrorists. I am very unhappy and deeply disappointed with the Moderates for not standing up and doing what they could to change things. And I am convinced there is much each individual could do, examples of which I outlined above.

I think this bears repeating:

I will add this however: when it is common knowledge that money is consistently being funneled to these extremists to continue to wreak their havoc I have to wonder if these so-called extremists arent actually representing the secret feelings/desires of the group as a whole. If not, then why arent more moderates coming forward and denouncing this crap? Why arent the money sources being dried up? why arent more terrorist hiding places and training camps being exposed? Why are Madrassas always full to the brim? Hatred of the West is rampant in that part of the world and you cant say that my recent change of heart since 9/11 is the cause. As I said before, I had a live and let live attitude until then, and I firmly believe that only the Muslims can bring about the needed changes in this situation.
Its a sure bet these radicals wont listen to anything the West has to say.....

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Nope. It's just that it's hypocritical for you to call someone "white trash" when you're making an argument for racial sensitivity. It's like the pot calling the kettle black, get it?

I also find it quite alarming that some people hold the notion that there is no such thing as descrimination against white people. Poor whites who live in under-developed, and/or poor socio-economic conditions (or who come from such a background) are indeed descriminated against and called such wonderfully socially accepted (from the climate around here anyway) names as "trailer trash," and "white trash." Some also seem to be under the impression that these groups are not oppressed. Sure they are, it's just not racial oppression, so much as it's socio-economic, and in some instances, ethnic. Why is it so hard to wrap one's brain around that? It exists, now quit back-peddling with ludicrous arguments about how white people can't be oppressed and/or descriminated against. It's just not true!

One's socioeconomic status/background is NOT the same as race! Again, back to my earlier point, "trash" is more of a state of mind/behavior than it is an artifact of ethnicity or economic status. That's just like saying that oppression against fat people is racism. Why are you trying to twist this into something that it is not?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

. . . The Mexican guys are angry at those who hold power in America (the whites), the ones who have the biggest houses and the biggest cars (the whites), and the regime that wants to criminalize them. Unfortunately you happened to be a whipping post for some of their frustration. I'm not saying it was acceptable or appropriate... only understandable.

IMO, the failure in the premise negates that argument, though it may be true in application. For example, certainly not all white people hold power, live in larger houses than some minorities, etc. Yet, they are perceived that way as evidenced by your statement.

In the end, until people start judging others by their actions and not by what they think all "races" are like, this will never end. Add to that the perpetuation of the welfare state, which fosters hardly any incentive to be better, and the poor of all races will be perpetuated. Sad - very true.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by skcin

Do you use that term around black people?


Personally, I agree with you that no term is that derogatory towards whites. The worst I've been called is a "white bitch." Was I a little upset? Of course. But I can deal with 1 or 2 isolated incidents.

BUT - your last observation seems to say "well, it wasn't cool but I can see why they wanted to beat the sh*t out of you." I have a problem with this, because if that's the case it could be applied to all situations. Like, if black people robbed my house it would be understandable for me to hate all blacks & call them n*ggers? A lot of people defend their views with stuff like this - "well, this happened to me, so it's OK." And I don't think it is.

Let me clarify that any insinuation of violence is NEVER acceptable, appropriate or understandable unless you are in a position of self-defense. I don't think Sparky's original comment included the "beat the sh*t out of you" part. I was more referring to the comment the Mexican guys made about the minority of whites in the Home Depot. Again, I think what they said was idiotic and inappropriate. However, given the way Mexicans are blatantly discriminated against and looked down upon, especially in racially tense areas like SoCal, I can understand their anger at white people in general. And unfortunately Sparky just happened to be the random recipient of this invective. Accordingly, I don't necessarily agree with the radical African American movement espoused by the likes of Louis Farrakhan, etc... but I do understand why they are so angry at white people. In NYC I can understand the resentment people have for white people who swoop in to gentrify and price out formerly working class ethnic neighborhoods. Again... it's all about the power dynamic, money, politics, etc. that white people symbolize in America...

And if black people did rob and pillage your house, and you started using the "n" word when mentioning black people, I would definitely find that inappropriate and unfortunate. However, you are only human, and you went through something extremely traumatic... so I would understand why you felt this anger, even if I didn't necessarily agree with you.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I totally call bull***** on this. It's not all equally hateful. For example, if you were walking down the sidewalk and you accidentally bumped the shoulder of the person walking in the opposite direction, and he said loudly, "watch it, you honkey!" would you be offended? Probably not. What if he said "watch it, you b*tt-f**king f@ggot pansy a$$?" I don't know about you, but that would piss me the heck off. I would quickly think about stupid thugs like him who probably make a sport of taunting gays and who has probably beaten them up too. Gays are minorities too. And we all know that Rosie can get her boxer shorts all up in a bunch when she smells something anti-gay in the air, e.g., the whole Kelly Ripa-Clay Aiken affair. "rolleyes:

It's not all the same.

But, it is the thought process behind it. Hate is hate in my book. But, I think people have a hard time seeing past their rearing. In other words, do you really think it is less hurtful for a poor white child to be insulted for her poverty by those of any race more fortunate than she? I think not.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Okay that really is racist and offensive. I have had friends who are Muslim and I just don't get how you can paint them all with such a broad brush. It's the same attitude, albeit reversed, that is driving them to come after us. A blind hatred.

Oh -- but she doesn't do that -- we could ask her, but she says we wouldn't like her answer and she hopes she does not have to say she told us so.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

One's socioeconomic status/background is NOT the same as race! Again, back to my earlier point, "trash" is more of a state of mind/behavior than it is an artifact of ethnicity or economic status. That's just like saying that oppression against fat people is racism. Why are you trying to twist this into something that it is not?

So, if some smart, rich black kid verbally abuses to the point of tears some poor white trash kid for being just that - that is okay. But, if the poor white trash kid fires back with "shut up you stupid fukciung ni**er" that is a no no. I am seeing a blatant double standard here.

And, to me, it is no wonder it exists because the government is constantly implying to black people that they need a helping hand for something that happened 150 or so years ago. Just imagine if all your life, you had been given things under that guise. Wouldn't you feel entitled, even if just a little bit, to preferential treatment in all areas whether you deserved it or not?

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

IMO, the failure in the premise negates that argument, though it may be true in application. For example, certainly not all white people hold power, live in larger houses than some minorities, etc. Yet, they are perceived that way as evidenced by your statement.

In the end, until people start judging others by their actions and not by what they think all "races" are like, this will never end. Add to that the perpetuation of the welfare state, which fosters hardly any incentive to be better, and the poor of all races will be perpetuated. Sad - very true.

No, everybody cannot be king. But those "kings" in America, the true movers and shakers in the worlds of money and plitics, are white. Sure, there's Oprah and the gazillion non-whites in the entertainment and sports fields. But ultimately they all answer to white heads of corporations, CEO's, etc.

Of course I agree with you that people should be judged by their actions and character only. And someday, perhaps not within our lifetimes, America will be truly colorblind. But that's not reality today, and to pretend that racial tension does not exist today is delusional.

My own parents, who are about as assimilated as Charo after 36 years in the U.S. , are pretty racist themselves. They tolerate blacks, but would prefer not to be around them. They think Chinese are trash. However, for whatever reason, they have mad reverence for white people. There definitely seems to be a message sent loud and clear around the world that whites are the super race. Accordingly, you would not believe the amount of plastic surgery that goes on, especially the procedure that "westernizes" ones eyelids to make ones eyes appear rounder and larger. This procedure is as commonplace as getting ones ears pierced.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

. . . In NYC I can understand the resentment people have for white people who swoop in to gentrify and price out formerly working class ethnic neighborhoods. Again... it's all about the power dynamic, money, politics, etc. that white people symbolize in America...

But, by your own argument, black or ethnic people sold them that land and likely at a profit. So, clearly they have come egg of their faces as well. Yet, you do not mention that. It is all the white guys' fault. then, what if non-white people buy the new product, what of them?

I know of a few neighborhoods in Harlem and north of there where this has happened. So, it is unfair to blame it all on the white people. Thus and IMO, it is socioeconomic argument as opposed to race.

[Rickypt]

I am finding it interesting, not in a negative way...just interesting, that so much of this thread is devoted to talking about how there is discrimination and racism against whites. If this board were predominately people of color, this conversation would be completely different. Just find it interesting in a sociological sort of way.

I do think there are examples of "reverse" discrimination out there, but in its totality, it is absolutely nothing like racism and discrimination against people of color in America. I might have an experience like Sparky did once or twice in my life, and maybe I'll lose out on a job opportunity because of affirmative action. But I will not spend nearly every day fighting against entrenched racism and power dynamics that work against me just because of the color of my skin. Or against entrenched sexism and power dynamics that work against me because of my gender.

Look at the Barack Obama thing. Before we can talk about if he is truly qualified to be president, we must answer the question "is America ready for a black president". Same thing with Hillary: "are we ready for a woman".

All acts of discrimination are wrong, I think we all agree on that. The question I posed in this thread is why the big outrage against Rosie's ching-chong comments. The answer is clear to me: mocking Chinese has been part of an overall experience of oppression, ridicule, and racism felt by Asian-Americans. I haven't had that experience, so I didn't get it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

. . . My own parents, who are about as assimilated as Charo after 36 years in the U.S. ,

I may have to marry you for that statement - COOCHIII COOOOCCCHHIIIIIII COOOOOOOOO

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

I am finding it interesting, not in a negative way...just interesting, that so much of this thread is devoted to talking about how there is discrimination and racism against whites. If this board were predominately people of color, this conversation would be completely different. Just find it interesting in a sociological sort of way.

I do think there are examples of "reverse" discrimination out there, but in its totality, it is absolutely nothing like racism and discrimination against people of color in America. I might have an experience like Sparky did once or twice in my life, and maybe I'll lose out on a job opportunity because of affirmative action. But I will not spend nearly every day fighting against entrenched racism and power dynamics that work against me just because of the color of my skin. Or against entrenched sexism and power dynamics that work against me because of my gender.

Look at the Barack Obama thing. Before we can talk about if he is truly qualified to be president, we must answer the question "is America ready for a black president". Same thing with Hillary: "are we ready for a woman".

All acts of discrimination are wrong, I think we all agree on that. The question I posed in this thread is why the big outrage against Rosie's ching-chong comments. The answer is clear to me: mocking Chinese has been part of an overall experience of oppression, ridicule, and racism felt by Asian-Americans. I haven't had that experience, so I didn't get it.

I think the reason that this conversation is going the way it is is because white people are sick of losing to some minority who never did a damn thing to deserve the special treatment. As I have mentioned before, I know more than one kid who came from a wealthy family get accepted to and free money for school over a more qualified poorer white kid - and for something they never suffered for because their parents were wealthy. How in hell is that fair? The answer is it is not. So, I conclude as I always have, it is time to move on past the obviously failed policy of remedying the past and run to a new policy of helping the poor - all of them.

As for Rosie - humor must exist somewhere and IMO that is what she was doing. Imagine if no one ever made any off color joke. Kathy G. could not refer to "her gays" - the movie White Chicks would not exist - "baby got back" would not be a song - etc. That is a boring world