Capital Punishment - Page 10

The Tower · #**136** 10-31-2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I think a line Kyle had in one epsidode of South Park best describes how I feel about Christianity. He said, "If all the non-christians are wrong then they will burn in hell forever. But if the Christians were wrong and their religion was a load of crap then well nothing happens," So while I agree that the bible and christianity can be very very cruel and God himself the way he is in the bible can be outright mean, BUT I like to think of it as an insurance policy, and just WHAT IF. I mean do you REALIZE how LONG eternity is. If there's even a slim chance the bible is right, I'm going to freaking call myself christian and believe jesus died for my sins and all that stuff.

I mean all ypou atheists are taking a BIG gamble.

The workings of (or more appropriately, the NON-workings of) the human brain continue to astound me every single day.

No wonder Dubya is in the White House.

GateandGarden · #**137** 10-31-2004, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I think a line Kyle had in one epsidode of South Park best describes how I feel about Christianity. He said, "If all the non-christians are wrong then they will burn in hell forever. But if the Christians were wrong and their religion was a load of crap then well nothing happens," So while I agree that the bible and christianity can be very very cruel and God himself the way he is in the bible can be outright mean, BUT I like to think of it as an insurance policy, and just WHAT IF. I mean do you REALIZE how LONG eternity is. If there's even a slim chance the bible is right, I'm going to freaking call myself christian and believe jesus died for my sins and all that stuff.

I mean all ypou atheists are taking a BIG gamble.

With all due respect to the power of religion to help and heal people in many situations, I have to say that what you've said sounds aboslutely preposterous to me. You've definitely implied that you've been forced to believe by fear, by this minute chance that if you belonged to one of the many, many other religions besides Christianity, some of which have been around longer anyway, or weren't a member of a religion at all (and a growing number of people fit into that category) then you're just going to go to hell. I don't see that as particularly genuine. You're not believing it because you love God or Jesus--you want to save your ass, end of story. What if the Muslims are right? Well, you're taking a BIG gamble. This works several ways, you know.

Of course, that is really no more or less absurd than when you said that one can't be gay and moral.

Hillary

GateandGarden · #**138** 10-31-2004, 02:53 PM

This thread has taken some interesting turns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

The workings of (or more appropriately, the NON-workings of) the human brain continue to astound me every single day.

No wonder Dubya is in the White House.

And that's what I meant to say, basically, it just took me longer for some reason.

Hillary

heyjupiter678 · #**139** 10-31-2004, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

And that's what I meant to say, basically, it just took me longer for some reason.

You're just thorough!

And I agree with you and Tower. Hawkeye, with all due respect, that's one of the most absurd and sad things I've read in a long time.

GypsySorcerer · #**140** 10-31-2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

Speaking for myself- you could start with my previous post containing that lovely scripture from Leviticus.

Or maybe the whole- "If you have not been saved by Jesus you're going to burn in hell for all eternity"- that stuff is pretty vile.

Or howsabout "love the sinner hate the sin" bull****, that's a hot one. "Don't take it personally dear, I don't hate you- I just hate who you are."

Or we could always take the whole deal about how there's no reason to get upset about Leviticus because that's not really part of the bible and you should only pay attention to the parts that I think are relevant because after all this was written by people that we can't even identify, much less corroborate, and things were so much different 4000 years ago and none of that stuff has relevance in today's modern life- but did I mention that the bible says that as a homosexual you're a sinner and you're going to burn in hell and that it says Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!

Yeah, you're right. Where was my head- how could I have ever thought of christianity as vile??? Stupid me.

Um, I asked because I am sincerely interested in other's view of Christianity. I have talked to atheists who had respect for Jesus' teachings, even though they didn't believe he was the son of God and whatnot.

If you could direct me to where I've shoved my religion down your throat, please do. Other than that, sorry for wanting to have frank and open discussions about religion. My mistake.

GypsySorcerer · #**141** 10-31-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommer

(and i was thinking "omg, religion's been going hand in hand with violence and hatred for centuries, and still they need explenations!")

You don't think I've haven't heard that argument before? Please.

Sorry, but when you lump all religions people together by making statements like that, you're being as closeminded as you say we are.

GateandGarden · #**142** 10-31-2004, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

If you could direct me to where I've shoved my religion down your throat, please do.

I'm pretty sure no one could, and I think that helps to prove the point I was trying to make earlier. (In post #139).

Hillary

GypsySorcerer · #**143** 10-31-2004, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I'm pretty sure no one could, and I think that helps to prove the point I was trying to make earlier. (In post #139).

Hillary

Like you said in the post, Christianity (and most religions, really) have been responsible for some pretty ugly things. After all, humans make up their membership. I try to be as open-minded as I can, and for the most part, people have afforded me the same courtesy. I think our generation is much more tolerant and accepting. We still have a way to go, I know, but it's better.

GateandGarden · #**144** 10-31-2004, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

Like you said in the post, Christianity (and most religions, really) have been responsible for some pretty ugly things. After all, humans make up their membership. I try to be as open-minded as I can, and for the most part, people have afforded me the same courtesy. I think our generation is much more tolerant and accepting. We still have a way to go, I know, but it's better.

I agree. I think it is getting better and better. Recently I've been encountering more and more Christians (and followers of other religions) who are open-minded like you. They are still too few and far between, but at least things are getting better.

Hillary

GypsySorcerer · #**145** 10-31-2004, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I agree. I think it is getting better and better. Recently I've been encountering more and more Christians (and followers of other religions) who are open-minded like you. They are still too few and far between, but at least things are getting better.

Hillary

Thank you.

I grew up in a very rural area; everyone white, mostly Christian. Heavily Democratic area, but socially conservative. I was raised pretty sheltered and the whole area was fairly intolerant.

The best thing I ever did was leave that area, meet tons of new, diverse people, and chose to expose myself to as much as possible. I am grateful I left every day.

estranged4life · #**146** 10-31-2004, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

Like you said in the post, Christianity (and most religions, really) have been responsible for some pretty ugly things. After all, humans make up their membership. I try to be as open-minded as I can, and for the most part, people have afforded me the same courtesy. I think our generation is much more tolerant and accepting. We still have a way to go, I know, but it's better.

there were more open-minded Christians in this area, But those chances are slim & none and "Slim" just left the building...

At least there seems to be more here online than on this side of the screen where I reside

Brian j.

The Tower · #**147** 10-31-2004, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

Um, I asked because I am sincerely interested in other's view of Christianity. I have talked to atheists who had respect for Jesus' teachings, even though they didn't believe he was the son of God and whatnot.

If you could direct me to where I've shoved my religion down your throat, please do. Other than that, sorry for wanting to have frank and open discussions about religion. My mistake.

Am I missing something? You asked the question and I gave you several answers.

I have respect for Jesus' teachings, I just don't have a lot of respect for his followers who have twisted and/or ignored those teachings to the point where we have so-called "christians" holding up signs that say "Matthew Shepard will burn in hell".

I never said all christians were to the level of Fred Phelps- but the bible is the bible. Either you follow the word of god or you don't. At some point, the intolerance will show, because the bible in and of itself is intolerant.Water it down, ignore the yucky parts, abridge the damn thing if you want- if you're not going to adhere to your scripture, then why even participate in the religion at all? I didn't create your rules/scripture, so don't complain to me when people are extremely offended by christianity's intolerance.

I never even inferred that you personally have shoved your religion down my throat. I'm all for having frank and open discussions regarding religion and, in particular, christianity. If you can't handle truth and historical fact, that's not my problem.

wondergirl9847 · #**148** 10-31-2004, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

I have respect for Jesus' teachings, I just don't have a lot of respect for his followers who have twisted and/or ignored those teachings to the point where we have so-called "christians" holding up signs that say "Matthew Shepard will burn in hell".

Those types of people, people who bomb abortion clinics, etc. would probably be in shock at Jesus if He walked the earth today. He shocked the Pharisees with His thoughts about certain things. Jesus ate/hung out with sinners, prostitutes, etc. because He loved everyone, no matter what. Showing compassion and love towards people is what He did and I wish I were more like Him.

GypsySorcerer · #**149** 10-31-2004, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

Am I missing something? You asked the question and I gave you several answers.

I have respect for Jesus' teachings, I just don't have a lot of respect for his followers who have twisted and/or ignored those teachings to the point where we have so-called "christians" holding up signs that say "Matthew Shepard will burn in hell".

I never said all christians were to the level of Fred Phelps- but the bible is the bible. Either you follow the word of god or you don't. At some point, the intolerance will show, because the bible in and of itself is intolerant.Water it down, ignore the yucky parts, abridge the damn thing if you want- if you're not going to adhere to your scripture, then why even participate in the religion at all? I didn't create your rules/scripture, so don't complain to me when people are extremely offended by christianity's intolerance.

I never even inferred that you personally have shoved your religion down my throat. I'm all for having frank and open discussions regarding religion and, in particular, christianity. If you can't handle truth and historical fact, that's not my problem.

I got the impression that you interpreted more from my question than was intended. I wasn't expecting you to come down easily on Christianity. I was curious to see which specific parts you and others thought were vile; I guess you thought I couldn't believe someone could think of the Bible as vile.

I disagree with your second paragraph, though. Over time, things change. Girls getting married when they were children and slavery are two things found in the Bible that are no longer acceptable and are wrong. I do not believe that God still wants us to practice those things just because it's in the Bible. I think many people realize now that homosexuality, as discussed in the Bible, simply is not how we understand it in modern terms. In fact, many Biblical scholars believe the passages discussing homosexuality refer to the condemning of pedophilia and/or orgies. I have investigated myself and agree. There is also strong evidence of homosexual couples in the Bible who were favored by God.

Anyway, the Bible was written by man and is read by man, and is therefore subject to interpretation. You and I could read the same poem and arrive at different conclusions....but no one really knows how the author intended his/her work to be interpreted.

Thanks for answering.

amber · #**150** 10-31-2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

I never said all christians were to the level of Fred Phelps- but the bible is the bible. Either you follow the word of god or you don't. At some point, the intolerance will show, because the bible in and of itself is intolerant.Water it down, ignore the yucky parts, abridge the damn thing if you want- if you're not going to adhere to your scripture, then why even participate in the religion at all?

Good point.